scribbler Posted January 24, 2011 Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 I'll probably get shouted down but having just read in the EL section that Wolverhampton are bringing in an American on a 3.00 I really despair. How can any talented Brits ever rise through the British Leagues when they are disadvantaged by being born a Brit and riding for British clubs before trying to get in the EL. Perhaps all young British riders should learn their skills abroad and then promoters might be interested in them - even though thy're British... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whippy Posted January 24, 2011 Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 I'll probably get shouted down but having just read in the EL section that Wolverhampton are bringing in an American on a 3.00 I really despair. How can any talented Brits ever rise through the British Leagues when they are disadvantaged by being born a Brit and riding for British clubs before trying to get in the EL. Perhaps all young British riders should learn their skills abroad and then promoters might be interested in them - even though thy're British... I am with you on this one. Not enough is done to encourage the british youngsters imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted January 24, 2011 Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 I'd prefer it if any Brit moved up into the EL on 3. Some will say thats unfair, when Tai move dup he was clearly better than 3, well Pawlicki was clearly better than, Mrocza was always going to be good for 6+ etc etc. Plus, Tai would have moved up sooner. By making all Brits a 3 in the EL (until they attain an EL average of course, so someone like Joe Screen, Olly Allen or David Howe moving back up would his converted PL average), it will encourge clubs to take a chance on them when they're younger. Ok it'll make a few riders quite advanatageous in the first year while the likes of Craig Cook get snapped up next season on a 3, but the following year, you'll only be left with the rider capable of 3 anyway, as the better ones would have bene snapped up the year before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadders Posted January 24, 2011 Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 (edited) I'll probably get shouted down but having just read in the EL section that Wolverhampton are bringing in an American on a 3.00 I really despair. I was chatting to the other half about this last night ... We saw the rider in question in action at Lakeside last October against a young National League select side and although he was a class above them he didn't look like an EL class rider to me. Edited January 24, 2011 by Shadders Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scribbler Posted January 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 I was chatting to the other half about this last night ... We saw the rider in question in action at Lakeside last October against a young National League select side and although he was a class above them he didn't look like an EL class rider to me. So no Pl team want to take a chance on him on a 5 - but the El are willing to take him on a 3 -which is a strange conversion rate. Why shouldn't he be on a 4 like any other 'foreigner'. Perhaps this is just a way of getting him into the PL via a loophole in the system as I'm presuming that he wouldn't start in the Pl on a 3 if he's done an EL meeting or two...and I'm not sure how dropping down works... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
21st century heathen Posted January 24, 2011 Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 Perhaps one or two will re-think their view on the new conversion rate and points limit? The best bet for most Brits is PL and DU even to the point that Barker has moved down. Frankly I'm surprised Allen didn't do the same thing. It's very disappointing to see Wolves bring in a 3-point foreigner but given the make-up of their team there weren't exactly a lot of options. There's no point putting Morris in, and there's nobody else good enough on a 3 either. Probably the only NL class of '10 that could do anything in the EL '11 would be Cook/Smart/Lamber/Herne as No.8's or perhaps a DU (and none of them fit at Wolves incidentally - 6.33 I think it is they have left for the reserves). And frankly the fact that we're talking about putting any NL rider in the EL shows how poor the league is now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Posted January 24, 2011 Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 (edited) Must have improved a lot in the past year because the only time I saw him ride both Tim Webster and Sam beat him. Would have been a good NL rider (think he scored 10 or 11) or maybe PL reserve at that time. I do wonder why they would put foreign riders instead of British lads in, why not Chris Schramm or similar,he had some experience and was improving. Edit to say I realise Chris wouldn't fit - but the rules should be set so that he does. Edited January 24, 2011 by Vince Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scribbler Posted January 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 I was thinking that the NL are giving British riders the experience to move on to the PL - but then where do they go if we've got Americans able to join the EL on a 3 - just the same as any Brit who has 'served their apprenticeship' by riding in the NL and PL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
June Posted January 24, 2011 Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 Scribbler, you and I think alike. Why oh why do promoters NOT see and encouage the young brits. I hate cricket, but when I accidentlly saw on sky TV England beating the Aussies for the Ashes I stayed up several nights watching, The pure excitement from their barmy army was so infectous ( I read in a paper that they had spent thousands of pounds to be in Aussie ) I followed it until the end and loved the sheer joy of seeing us beat the worlds best.....That is what I long to see in british speedway. huge crowds, shouting on our own riders. thats the kind of atmosphere that will once again liven up our sport and put Britain back amongst the best. Am I dreaming? suppose I am ....cry! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikko Posted January 24, 2011 Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 It does make you wonder a 26 year old American on a 3 point average This year the young lads have got to buy the new silencers, wait to see if they even have a NL place, and then try to progress up the ladder. When will we next see a young british rider go though the Under 15s (now Under 16s), NL, PL then EL? It could take some time but like others, I'm going to work as hard as possible to give them a chance but frustrated would be an understatement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
comebackkings Posted January 24, 2011 Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 It will be yet another Ricky Wells, 3 point PL rider struggling to score a point. Untill the BSPA enforce British only reserves in every side in the EL and PL, promoters will continue to bend and break the rules they set to bring in these medeocre foreignors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vog Posted January 24, 2011 Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 Actually, given the new conversion rates, this one is about right. 5 point PL rider becomes 3 point EL rider. He won't do much more than that. The conversion rate in itself is problematic because successful young British riders are punished when trying to move up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scribbler Posted January 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 Actually, given the new conversion rates, this one is about right. 5 point PL rider becomes 3 point EL rider. He won't do much more than that. The conversion rate in itself is problematic because successful young British riders are punished when trying to move up. But he's not coming up on a 3 - it's his starting average moving straight into the EL... as an American. I would have thought that he'd start as a 4 at least...if the starting rate for foreigners fresh to the British league system hasn't changed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhidassa Posted January 24, 2011 Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 I'll probably get shouted down but having just read in the EL section that Wolverhampton are bringing in an American on a 3.00 I really despair. How can any talented Brits ever rise through the British Leagues when they are disadvantaged by being born a Brit and riding for British clubs before trying to get in the EL. Perhaps all young British riders should learn their skills abroad and then promoters might be interested in them - even though thy're British... It's no great surprise. The attitude in both PL/EL often seems to be more that foreign riders will develop better. One example is if a new Australian is signed, the comments tend to come along the lines of 'he should be good, hes Australian' (I may have had a discussion about that ). I do agree, foreigners should not come in on low averages in either league - it should be an assessed average, perhaps higher than what they would achieve, which theoretically should encourage teams to sign british riders as signing a foreign rider would pose a risk. Shame there isn't a team in speedway other teams look up to or base ideas on.. if they started signing Brits, perhaps it would become the current trend to sign them, instead of foreign riders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigFatDave Posted January 24, 2011 Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 It's up to the supporters to get out there and back their NL teams surely, no-one's running a charity here after all. Belle Vue have stated their intention of running an NL team this year but if the fans don't get behind it it won't last the season. Re your 'He must be good, he's an Aussie' remark, Rhidassa, that probably explains why we have British Talent Scouts spending a large part of the Northern Winter Downunder every year, unless it's for the climate. This young Seppoo has excellent credentials; the likes of Penhall and Ermolenko pushing him may count for something wouldn't you say? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vog Posted January 24, 2011 Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 It's up to the supporters to get out there and back their NL teams surely, no-one's running a charity here after all. Belle Vue have stated their intention of running an NL team this year but if the fans don't get behind it it won't last the season. Re your 'He must be good, he's an Aussie' remark, Rhidassa, that probably explains why we have British Talent Scouts spending a large part of the Northern Winter Downunder every year, unless it's for the climate. This young Seppoo has excellent credentials; the likes of Penhall and Ermolenko pushing him may count for something wouldn't you say? They pushed Ricky Wells...we all know how that turned out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagpuss Posted January 24, 2011 Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 (edited) Burmeister may be no better than the Brit options like Branney, T Allen, Clews etc but they have been tried and tested at PL level and have proved that they are more than likely not good enough for the EL. Burmeister may well be out of his depth too but Wolves obviously believe he is worth the risk. Before we can demand that EL and even PL teams should contain X amount of Brits we need to sort out under 15 speedway so that the standard increases in the NL and there is an eventual conveyor belt of talent. Just look how good young Scandinavians and Aussies are when they come over here, and its because they have organised and regular racing long before they get on a 500cc bike. This is not to criticise those who work hard for the under 15's currently, they can only work with what they are given. The authorities need to pull their collective finger out and give them an infrastructure to work with, and hopefully in a few years we'll have more British reserves in the EL. Edited January 24, 2011 by Bagpuss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
21st century heathen Posted January 24, 2011 Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 ...why not Chris Schramm or similar,he had some experience and was improving. Poor example as he's not exactly a spring chicken, but I understand the point you are making. It's up to the supporters to get out there and back their NL teams surely, no-one's running a charity here after all. Belle Vue have stated their intention of running an NL team this year but if the fans don't get behind it it won't last the season. Re your 'He must be good, he's an Aussie' remark, Rhidassa, that probably explains why we have British Talent Scouts spending a large part of the Northern Winter Downunder every year, unless it's for the climate. This young Seppoo has excellent credentials; the likes of Penhall and Ermolenko pushing him may count for something wouldn't you say? The point is that the system in our own country is working against the British lads in some cases. For example with the new conversion rate in place Craig Cook, having done it the 'right' way and worked his way up, would be an EL 3.98 already. Who's going to take him on that average when you can bring in Jonny Foreigner on 4.00. Even at this early stage Cook is not an sensible option when you're looking at it from a numbers point of view. If he averages say 8 in the PL (entirely realistic) next season for example he'll be on 4.80 for the EL in '12. I wouldn't read anything in to that if I were you. Hamill rated Wells. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigFatDave Posted January 24, 2011 Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 Before we can demand that EL and even PL teams should contain X amount of Brits we need to sort out under 15 speedway so that the standard increases in the NL and there is an eventual conveyor belt of talent. Just look how good young Scandinavians and Aussies are when they come over here, and its because they have organised and regular racing long before they get on a 500cc bike. That's always been my point of view as well, Baggy. No good blaming or penalising young blokes who just want to give it a go because of their nationality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted January 24, 2011 Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 This young Seppoo has excellent credentials; the likes of Penhall and Ermolenko pushing him may count for something wouldn't you say? Honestly. No. Give a money an American passport and I think the Americans would back him. We often hear that this rider has back some other rider and they fail. A good rider doesn't always seem to be able to spot talent. Jason Crump has over the years advised Poole sign Sergei Darkin and BV sign Michael Rajkowski, neither lasted to the first set of GSAs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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