MARK246 Posted January 24, 2011 Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 well we both agree on something.it wont stop the whinging nimbys.i still think the fim or bspa and the manufacturers should publish test results if there are any that is. its not fair to hoist these onto riders and expect them to iron out problems.typical speedway everything has to be top secret. All the information you need is here www.prodrive.com/up/Prodrive%20115_SWEDISH_PRODUCT.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hooper Posted January 27, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2011 well just had a text today saying that there is a debate as to whether or not the new silencers are to be compulsory for this year what a joke it should be called the scb clowns show coming to town soon and they will cause you complete havoc in your life Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gaptooth Posted January 28, 2011 Report Share Posted January 28, 2011 well just had a text today saying that there is a debate as to whether or not the new silencers are to be compulsory for this year what a joke it should be called the scb clowns show coming to town soon and they will cause you complete havoc in your life same here, two weeks after being told they were defo in. engines away for service on the strength of that , what a p1ss take....only speedway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
771neil Posted January 28, 2011 Report Share Posted January 28, 2011 I wouldn t be worrying about them yet as u16 won t start til late april and by then you ll know at moment there in all league but been told there are already talking about them not been in, as vince say u16 won t find much difference just the fact you ll have to buy new as no old ones yet. The main diff is heat and when your in deep dirt they make it very hard to handle. But I will say we used one on a 250cc on 400mtr track and at full throttle for 4 laps there wasn t much difference just the sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigend111 Posted January 28, 2011 Report Share Posted January 28, 2011 so y youth but not nl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
771neil Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 At the moment its all 3 leagues and u16 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billy Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 At the moment its all 3 leagues and u16 is this definate?atm heard nothing from bspa to confirm for sure either in writing or via the internet and nothing from n.vatcher who sent us a txt to say " hold on because theres a debate going on about these silencers" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
771neil Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 That why in my earlier post i said meetings are on going but at the moment they are in all leagues as told to me by cvs and a machine examiner but riders not had there say yet. SO AGAIN HOLD FIRE BUYING THEM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedwaystar84 Posted February 11, 2011 Report Share Posted February 11, 2011 (edited) Not proof but I did bother to contact the manufacturers and check they had carried out testing and their results. I have also heard all the same things about silencers every time they reduced the noise limits in other motorcycle sports and in nearly every case the reality has been nothing like the scare stories. Do you have proof that they will cause any damage to people riding below the top level? Why have these silencers not been a problem on the longtracks? Do you have any evidence other than what a couple of top riders have written? Do you believe that youngsters use an engine anything like as hard as the likes of Gollob? Do you think your engines are tuned to that level to start with or that they need to stay at exactly that level for every race? How do I know every breakdown will be blamed on them, that was more of a light hearted comment but there will be more than a grain of truth in there. Haven't ridden for a lot of years, have had a son riding and worked on a fair few engines over the past few years though. Sorry Vince but your wrong. So many riders have had problems with the new silencers abroad. not just with engines but also with tracks... At a meeting in Teterow, Germany last year in practice everyone used the new exhausts and when riders like Ben Barker and sebastian Ulamek cant slide the bike because the track had a little bit of material on it then there is a problem. For the meeting the old exhausts were used the same the next day in Gustrow. Then look at what they riders said about the European club championships in Miskolc Hungary last year... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_European_Speedway_Club_Champions%27_Cup all the riders said it was so dangerous because of the new silencers. Engines are running hotter, so hot the they must be cooled between heats and the top riders were changing the engine oil every 2 heats... On the longtrack engines arent getting so hot because the straights are longer so the engine gets more air which cools it down... this is what team pedersen says... http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?hl=de&ie=UTF-8&langpair=auto|en&u=http://www.sportowefakty.pl/zuzel/2011/02/08/john-jorgensen-z-nowymi-tlumikami-bedzie-znacznie-wiecej-jaz/&tbb=1&rurl=translate.google.com&usg=ALkJrhgpgqSi496JeSvanwXiiB6hSC6bFQ Edited March 2, 2011 by speedwaystar84 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billy Posted March 10, 2011 Report Share Posted March 10, 2011 That why in my earlier post i said meetings are on going but at the moment they are in all leagues as told to me by cvs and a machine examiner but riders not had there say yet. SO AGAIN HOLD FIRE BUYING THEM is it definate that national league are exempt? yes or no Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedwaystar84 Posted March 10, 2011 Report Share Posted March 10, 2011 http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?hl=de&sl=pl&tl=en&u=http://www.sportowefakty.pl/zuzel/2011/03/10/wybuch-cylindra-w-motorze-duha-i-kajzera-zdjecia/&rurl=translate.google.de&usg=ALkJrhjzmCwQdN0MRHHZjgrluaCm5pGl6w problems with the new exhausts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billy Posted March 10, 2011 Report Share Posted March 10, 2011 http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?hl=de&sl=pl&tl=en&u=http://www.sportowefakty.pl/zuzel/2011/03/10/wybuch-cylindra-w-motorze-duha-i-kajzera-zdjecia/&rurl=translate.google.de&usg=ALkJrhjzmCwQdN0MRHHZjgrluaCm5pGl6w problems with the new exhausts? so wtf are they being used? looks like an expensive year for some riders and a profitable one for engine tuners. back to my question. national league exempt? yes or no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little-End Posted March 10, 2011 Report Share Posted March 10, 2011 so wtf are they being used? looks like an expensive year for some riders and a profitable one for engine tuners. back to my question. national league exempt? yes or no? New Silencers are for EL & PL only , according to Jim McMillan , SCB Tech Advisor , Got an e-mail off him to confirm it Lucky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomcat Posted March 11, 2011 Report Share Posted March 11, 2011 so wtf are they being used? looks like an expensive year for some riders and a profitable one for engine tuners. back to my question. national league exempt? yes or no? I've read your posts on the subject of these new silencers for a while now, where you continue to condem them endlessly. Here's a serious question for you, as you appear to be a rider, albeit at the beginners/ National League standard. If riders, like yourself, continue to rebel against a quieter silencer for speedway, and tracks start to close down over the next few years, because of council noise restrictions, where are you going to race your bike/bikes? And please try to refrain from launching into one, as I used to race regularly many years ago, so am fully aware of mechanical technicalities etc. And, I am not saying these new silencers, regardless of make, are safe, as I don't have all the reports from various riders available to me, as many seem to have had absolutely no problems, while others report problems aplenty. My question is a genuinely serious one, as those of you condeming quieter silencers seem to have had no thought about what could happen to tracks, ie: Mildenhall and Birmingham, where noise pollution is a very very serious threat to the existance of tracks. Consider also, the Peterborough situation, where it is said, that if they don't run this year, a new planning application may be required and that could be refused on noise grounds. Add in Weymouth, who look like they will have to find a new home, where again, planning permission and noise issues will come into play and you have four tracks who would benefit greatly with a quieter silencer, thus negating any noise issues and potentially allowing them to reopen. If even one rider has managed to overcome these so called problems with these new silencers, then surely the data can, and would be, passed onto the manufacturer and other riders. So where is the problem?? If someone like Chris Kerr can make them work, then these so called GP riders can too, or maybe they don't want to make them work??? And I was around when silencers were first introduced... simular arguments and problems were doing the rounds back then, but they worked fine once riders stopped whinging and got on with solving the technical hassles. Time for people to stop this Me Me Me attitude and start thinking of the bigger picture IMHO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedwaystar84 Posted March 11, 2011 Report Share Posted March 11, 2011 The first 10 pictures are the results of using a King exhaust from 2010 and the last picture of matia duh's bike was using a DEP. this happened at a temperature of 12 degrees... what happens when it hits 25 to 30 degreees in the summer??? The exhausts are dangerous, bikes becoming unridable when hitting grippy patches on a track, engines overheating and exploding or just desintigrating... Zengotas crash was "rider error" but soon riders will be getting injured from crashing or from serious burns from the exhaust. racing costs go up which in turn hits the fans. Tracks must be made much slicker so now it really will be start and first corner then you can fill your program in... it will be like watching rye house week in week out... how boring... And as for the GPs, the rider with the least amount of engine failures will be world champion... my money for an outside bet would be Laguta... Im all for reducing the sound to help tracks survive but it must be done step by step with the exhaust companies involved with engine tuners to find an exhaust that still allows the engine to function as it should! Maybe Chris Kerr made it work, but in all fairness does he really get the same use out of his engine such as a rider like Simon Stead or Chris Harris? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billy Posted March 11, 2011 Report Share Posted March 11, 2011 I've read your posts on the subject of these new silencers for a while now, where you continue to condem them endlessly. Here's a serious question for you, as you appear to be a rider, albeit at the beginners/ National League standard. If riders, like yourself, continue to rebel against a quieter silencer for speedway, and tracks start to close down over the next few years, because of council noise restrictions, where are you going to race your bike/bikes? And please try to refrain from launching into one, as I used to race regularly many years ago, so am fully aware of mechanical technicalities etc. And, I am not saying these new silencers, regardless of make, are safe, as I don't have all the reports from various riders available to me, as many seem to have had absolutely no problems, while others report problems aplenty. My question is a genuinely serious one, as those of you condeming quieter silencers seem to have had no thought about what could happen to tracks, ie: Mildenhall and Birmingham, where noise pollution is a very very serious threat to the existance of tracks. Consider also, the Peterborough situation, where it is said, that if they don't run this year, a new planning application may be required and that could be refused on noise grounds. Add in Weymouth, who look like they will have to find a new home, where again, planning permission and noise issues will come into play and you have four tracks who would benefit greatly with a quieter silencer, thus negating any noise issues and potentially allowing them to reopen. If even one rider has managed to overcome these so called problems with these new silencers, then surely the data can, and would be, passed onto the manufacturer and other riders. So where is the problem?? If someone like Chris Kerr can make them work, then these so called GP riders can too, or maybe they don't want to make them work??? And I was around when silencers were first introduced... simular arguments and problems were doing the rounds back then, but they worked fine once riders stopped whinging and got on with solving the technical hassles. Time for people to stop this Me Me Me attitude and start thinking of the bigger picture IMHO. im entitled to my opinion and im not alone in it. there are far noiser sports than speedway . the silencers are killing the bikes.theyre not right and its proven because the old ones work fine. they should be binned asap. speedway is expensive enough as it is without these silencers.its all very well saying what if a track is forced to close but these new silencers wont satisfy the nimbys and whingers and no track as of yet has closed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billy Posted March 11, 2011 Report Share Posted March 11, 2011 im entitled to my opinion and im not alone in it. there are far noiser sports than speedway . the silencers are killing the bikes.theyre not right and its proven because the old ones work fine. they should be binned asap. speedway is expensive enough as it is without these silencers.its all very well saying what if a track is forced to close but these new silencers wont satisfy the nimbys and whingers and no track as of yet has closed. another thing to. i havent heard one rider or tuner praising the benefits of these silencers. in fact the opposite they all say the bikes are down on power and hard to ride in the deep dirt. its only the non technical minded or non riding fraternity who say theyre o.k. the riders should be the ones who decide end of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
high edge Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 Heard the bikes at Scunny yesterday they sounded like mopeds.Did nothing to improve the racing infact i think it ruined it.And was the main reason for a bad accident in heat two when a rider lifted lost control and collected another rider crashing into the fence.Both riders escaped serious injury,the new siencers flatten the engines and this will cause the bikes to lift when they hitt dirt,making it very dangerous if two riders are side by side.tracks will have to be very slick to prevent it.And we all know what sort of racing slick tracks give us the sport will suffer from poor racing people will stop coming to watch and track could close.At Belle Vue today they had the same problems untill they graded the track and removed most of the dirt. once again i dont things have been looked at enought before being brought in letts get it sorted before its to late. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Race IT Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 Other than the above. the other big issue is the heat ..........there is a very high and serious risk of these new silencers to burn as they do not cool like the old ones.(lets hope we dont have a very hot summer!!) An enforced rule yet again that does not consider the overall picture. Riders and their pit crews and those that may have to assist an injured rider on track are at serious risk of a very bad injury. I suggest everyone is made aware of this risk and the situaiton be monitored carefully. By the way..if a its an eu noise ruling this can be challenged under health and safety by a british court if the piece of equipment is deemed a risk and as such they can (and have done ) overrule the EU law (if it is indeed one as Im not sure who made the ruling!!) ...keep an eye on it guys, its a very big issue that has been underestimated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomcat Posted March 14, 2011 Report Share Posted March 14, 2011 im entitled to my opinion and im not alone in it. there are far noiser sports than speedway . the silencers are killing the bikes.theyre not right and its proven because the old ones work fine. they should be binned asap. speedway is expensive enough as it is without these silencers.its all very well saying what if a track is forced to close but these new silencers wont satisfy the nimbys and whingers and no track as of yet has closed. As I thought, bury your head in the sand and ignore the very real threat. Your like my son, if it hasn't happened yet, then its not going to. Please please wake up and realise that tracks will close and may never reopen due to noise issues. I am aware that there are problems with the new silencers, but may I suggest that you get along to Ipswich, where the riders have worked together to sort out the issues between them. And as for your last comment, about the non riding fraternity and non technical people backing the new silencers.... did you actually read my whole post?? And Speedwaystar84... Chris Kerr would have gotten the same useage out of his engines as any other rider, including Harris, Nicholls etc etc. He rode in the Premier League, which requires the engines to work just as hard as any other league. Riding around at half throttle would have meant his average being a whole lot lower than it ended up as. Once again, excuses being thrown about by people. I conceded in my original post, that maybe further development/collusion, needs to be implemented between riders and manufacturers, but that doesn't alter the fact that there are riders out there, who HAVE made the new silencers work without being dangerous. I also argue the point on the silencers lowering power and thus causing problems. Answer me this... how on earth did Ivan Mauger, Barry Briggs, Peter Collins, John Louis et al, get on with engines, as in 2 valve Jawa, JAP's etc, who's power output was far below the engines of today, yet many more tracks were far grippier than they are today. Where is the difference? Alledgedly, tracks are far slicker these days, so how come there is a problem? Its not the power, its down the inability of todays riders to deal with any form of grip. And, yet another point, as a former speedway mechanic, I have had more than my fair share of quite serious burns to my arms, fingers and hands and thats from the old King Silencer, as every exhaust gets red hot during racing. The idea is, that anyone likely to need to handle a bike, should be aware that exhausts get hot, whether thats through these new silencers, or the old ones. Also, Engine tuners.... aren't they the ones that charge 100's and 100's of pounds to tune or service your engines, yet cannot find the right setup to accomodate these silencers. I would ask myself, what the hell I'm paying them for? Tuners are where your money goes, and from experience, your being ripped off most of the time. I ran an old Mk4 Weslake towards the end of my career, 1990 was when I finally retired due to injury, yet I never had the motor tunes by anyone. I did all of my own maintainence in my own workshop (garage next to the house), yet beat some far better riders regularly, including people like a young Ben Howe. Sorry, but tuning has become the 'In' things for every rider, regardless of ability, why? because the top stars were tuning engines to be rocketships, so everyone else had to follow suit to keep up/be like their hero's. Thats a fact, because if the top stars hadn't of gone down that route, you wouldn't be spending huge amounts of money to be the same. Trainee riders, who only go to training schools, with vans emblazoned with their names etc, what the hell is that about? Its spending money that doesn't need spending at this point in your careers. Anyway, I've digressed with that last piece, but no doubt the anti silencer crew will pick holes in everything I've said, but remember this, I've been through decades of changes to speedway bikes, including silencers and your sitting there, wet behind the ears posting things that you haven't properly thought through. I suspect its a case of, "Well the GP boys and Polish League guys have stated the silencers are naff, so we'll join in" Just to finish off, these photo's of broken engines etc, are these not the ones that had the new silencers fitted and used without getting the bikes setup correctly? Just asking, as someone else commented that this was the case. If so, then they are NOT evidence that the silencer doesn't work, just proof that some riders should seek help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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