lucifer sam Posted February 14, 2011 Report Share Posted February 14, 2011 What John meant was that the trophy awarded to Oxford was an imposter. So in other words, there was one than one trophy presented to the winners of the National Trophy, but ONLY one of these trophies was actually known as THE National Trophy itself. For which years did the Daily Mail sponsor the National Trophy? I wonder if any other "bogus" trophies were presented in lieu of the Daily Mail one. For instance, what about 1962? If Southampton received the original World Championship trophy for winning the league, then which trophy did Wimbledon receive for winning the National Trophy that season? Another trophy that wasn't the National Trophy at all? And if Oxford received the league trophy (i.e. the first World Championship Trophy) for winning the National Trophy in 1964, then which trophy did they receive for winning the league? In the meantime, we now have the following timeline for the original World Championship trophy: 1936-1938: Presented to winner of World Final 1962: Presented to Southampton for winning National League (was it also used for this purpose in other years?) 1964: Presented to Oxford for winning National Trophy (was it also used for this purpose in other years?) Sometime in the 1970s onwards until the present day: Presented to winner of the British Final All the best Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedwayondisc Posted February 14, 2011 Report Share Posted February 14, 2011 In the meantime, we now have the following timeline for the original World Championship trophy: 1936-1938: Presented to winner of World Final 1962: Presented to Southampton for winning National League (was it also used for this purpose in other years?) 1964: Presented to Oxford for winning National Trophy (was it also used for this purpose in other years?) Sometime in the 1970s onwards until the present day: Presented to winner of the British Final All the best Rob That would seem about right Rob. The only thing I do not know for certain in that timeline is if the 1964 Oxford Trophy really was for the National Trophy. Perhaps that is not strictly accurate. Would it not make more sense that it was for the league win not the Trophy win and that fact has got mistaken over the years? Have you got a photo to show for sure? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedwayondisc Posted February 14, 2011 Report Share Posted February 14, 2011 (edited) I have news that clarifies things quite a bit. In the Speedway Star and News from October 16, 1964 there is an article regarding the trophy being used for the National League winners of the early sixties. Clearly this is the trophy as presented to Southampton, Belle Vue and then Oxford in the period 1962-1964. The Photograph also shows that it is engraved for that purpose specifically. It seems that Oxford were not presented with this trophy at the meeting that clinched the league title in late September 64 and had not received it even by the National Trophy Final a couple of weeks later. It must have been presented some time later and it is this disconnect between the competition/event at which it was won and the presentation that has probably led to people mis-labelled the reasoning! So this trophy NEVER was used for the National Trophy AT ALL! As this is obviously the same trophy as that used for British Finals later it must have been re-polished and re-engraved for that purpose. This must have been for the 1969 British Final when it was definitely presented to Barry Briggs, I believe for the first year. Edited February 14, 2011 by speedwayondisc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsloes 1928 nearly Posted February 14, 2011 Report Share Posted February 14, 2011 (edited) That little lad in the Southampton pic..? It's not a certain one-time promoter at Wimbledon Speedway circa 2002 is it..?! Edited February 14, 2011 by Parsloes 1928 nearly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucifer sam Posted February 14, 2011 Report Share Posted February 14, 2011 I have news that clarifies things quite a bit. In the Speedway Star and News from October 16, 1964 there is an article regarding the trophy being used for the National League winners of the early sixties. Clearly this is the trophy as presented to Southampton, Belle Vue and then Oxford in the period 1962-1964. The Photograph also shows that it is engraved for that purpose specifically. It seems that Oxford were not presented with this trophy at the meeting that clinched the league title in late September 64 and had not received it even by the National Trophy Final a couple of weeks later. It must have been presented some time later and it is this disconnect between the competition/event at which it was won and the presentation that has probably led to people mis-labelled the reasoning! So this trophy NEVER was used for the National Trophy AT ALL! As this is obviously the same trophy as that used for British Finals later it must have been re-polished and re-engraved for that purpose. This must have been for the 1969 British Final when it was definitely presented to Barry Briggs, I believe for the first year. Speedwayondisc, well done mate, that's got to the bottom of that. All the best Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sotonian Posted February 14, 2011 Report Share Posted February 14, 2011 That little lad in the Southampton pic..? It's not a certain one-time promoter at Wimbledon Speedway circa 2002 is it..?! Not 100% sure, but I think it's Tony Knott, grandson of promoter Charlie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsloes 1928 nearly Posted February 15, 2011 Report Share Posted February 15, 2011 Not 100% sure, but I think it's Tony Knott, grandson of promoter Charlie. Oh okay - just a thought... Strangely the name of my good friend who I thought it MIGHT be isn't allowed in the weird world of the BSF.. Here; I'll try again: # Name Removed #... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsloes 1928 nearly Posted February 15, 2011 Report Share Posted February 15, 2011 Perhaps it would help to remove the confusion if we saw a few pictures! The impressive National Trophy presented by and still owned by the Daily Mail was a (bronze, I believe) statue of a Dirt Track Rider in full broadslide and is shown here being presented to Jeff Lloyd of Harringay in 1952 More to the point, who's the tasty bit of frippet presenting the very expensive trophy to the Racers' captain..? Bit of a Marilyn Monroe lookalike...!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedwayondisc Posted February 15, 2011 Report Share Posted February 15, 2011 More to the point, who's the tasty bit of frippet presenting the very expensive trophy to the Racers' captain..? Bit of a Marilyn Monroe lookalike...!! That is a young actress who delighted in the very 1950s name of PEGGY CUMMINS - please do not make your own jokes - who was, in 1952, starring in a Shepperton Studios comedy 'Who Goes There?' which also starred Nigel Patrick and George Cole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Blanchard Posted February 15, 2011 Report Share Posted February 15, 2011 As I understand it to take the topic a bit further and in a conversation with Ove Fundin, the post war trophy (Sunday Dispatch?) was given to Barry Briggs to keep and the winged wheel trophy was given to Ivan Mauger (who uses it as a door stop for his garage - I gather) to keep. Maybe that is why Ove’s name was then eventually aligned with the SWC series and that trophy named after him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trees Posted February 16, 2011 Report Share Posted February 16, 2011 who uses it as a door stop for his garage Oh that's great then, I knew he shouldn't have been able to keep it!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Blanchard Posted February 16, 2011 Report Share Posted February 16, 2011 (edited) Oh that's great then, I knew he shouldn't have been able to keep it!! Well, Theresa and I am a bit biased of course, one of them should have gone to Ove. But he is such a soft touch he would most likely given to anyone who asked for it. Rather like the famous 'Norwich Track Spare # 2' bike - the one he won most of his world championships on - Briggo asked for it - so he gave it to him - just like that. Edited February 16, 2011 by Jim Blanchard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted February 16, 2011 Report Share Posted February 16, 2011 Thought i read somewhere that the winged wheel(knocked together by Split Waterman i think..)was in a pretty poor state.Might have been an article on speedwayplus site Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedwayondisc Posted February 16, 2011 Report Share Posted February 16, 2011 Thought i read somewhere that the winged wheel(knocked together by Split Waterman i think..)was in a pretty poor state.Might have been an article on speedwayplus site I think you will find that the Sunday Mirror Winged Wheel Trophy has been part of a magnificent display in Christchurch, New Zealand celebrating Mr Mauger's glorious career. As can be clearly seen in the photographs on HERE it neither looks to be in distress or being used to perform any menial household task. I find it hard to believe that a man that dedicated his life to winning the Sport's top honour, like no other man alive or dead, would have ever treated that particular trophy with anything other that the supreme respect in deserves. To suggest anything else seems frankly ludicrous. Mauger was, of course, presented with that particular trophy in 1978, not on a whim, but in acknowledgement of his unique achievement of winning the title three years in sucession. The Sunday Mirror bestowed this singular honour on him just in the same way as occurs in all other major sports in the world when a competitior or team win s a hat trick of wins. Of course, it is always unfortunate when the facts get in the way of colourful, but ultimately erroneous story, isn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted February 16, 2011 Report Share Posted February 16, 2011 (edited) I think you will find that the Sunday Mirror Winged Wheel Trophy has been part of a magnificent display in Christchurch, New Zealand celebrating Mr Mauger's glorious career. As can be clearly seen in the photographs on HERE it neither looks to be in distress or being used to perform any menial household task. I find it hard to believe that a man that dedicated his life to winning the Sport's top honour, like no other man alive or dead, would have ever treated that particular trophy with anything other that the supreme respect in deserves. To suggest anything else seems frankly ludicrous. Mauger was, of course, presented with that particular trophy in 1978, not on a whim, but in acknowledgement of his unique achievement of winning the title three years in sucession. The Sunday Mirror bestowed this singular honour on him just in the same way as occurs in all other major sports in the world when a competitior or team win s a hat trick of wins. Of course, it is always unfortunate when the facts get in the way of colourful, but ultimately erroneous story, isn't it? Well you might find it hard to believe,but in this article it was in a sorry state(bits fallen off...)when it was loaned out.The guy who wrote the article got it back into shape. Winged Wheel Edited February 16, 2011 by iris123 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Templeton Posted February 16, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2011 I think you will find that the Sunday Mirror Winged Wheel Trophy has been part of a magnificent display in Christchurch, New Zealand celebrating Mr Mauger's glorious career. As can be clearly seen in the photographs on HERE it neither looks to be in distress or being used to perform any menial household task. I find it hard to believe that a man that dedicated his life to winning the Sport's top honour, like no other man alive or dead, would have ever treated that particular trophy with anything other that the supreme respect in deserves. To suggest anything else seems frankly ludicrous. Mauger was, of course, presented with that particular trophy in 1978, not on a whim, but in acknowledgement of his unique achievement of winning the title three years in sucession. The Sunday Mirror bestowed this singular honour on him just in the same way as occurs in all other major sports in the world when a competitior or team win s a hat trick of wins. Of course, it is always unfortunate when the facts get in the way of colourful, but ultimately erroneous story, isn't it? I think it was the Sunday PICTORIAL Winged Wheel Trophy, not the Sunday MIRROR. The Sunday Mirror sponsored the 1978 World Final Trophy, won by Ole Olsen, for that year only, I think. If you look at Post No1 on page 1 of this thread, you may be able to answer some of my queries. Tim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedwayondisc Posted February 16, 2011 Report Share Posted February 16, 2011 (edited) I think it was the Sunday PICTORIAL Winged Wheel Trophy, not the Sunday MIRROR. The Sunday Mirror sponsored the 1978 World Final Trophy, won by Ole Olsen, for that year only, I think. If you look at Post No1 on page 1 of this thread, you may be able to answer some of my queries. Tim. The 'Sunday Pictorial' did present the winged wheel trophy in 1958 as part of it's sponsorship of the World Final but the 'Sunday Pictorial' ceased to exist in 1963 being replaced by the new title 'Sunday Mirror' and it was under this sponsorship umbrella that all subsequent Wembley staged World Finals were supported by Mirror Group. I presume at some stage, probably around 1963, that the small name plate on the front was changed to indicate this change of name. Mauger's triple win in 1968-1970 was, I believe, the reason for him being given the trohy in perpetuity, but for reasons unknown to me this was not actually carried out until the Sunday Mirror staged a presentation lunch at the Cafe Royal in London in 1978 at which they handed over the trophy. That year's Golden Jubilee World Final at Wembley did indeed have a one-off elaborate cup that was given to Ole Olsen, that was also given by the Sunday Mirror. The trophy that appeared at the 1979 World Final was a little suprise as I don't think there had been any advance publicity on a new perpetual trophy being created. However, lo and behold, it was of course Mr Mauger who took that home as well. Edited February 16, 2011 by speedwayondisc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Templeton Posted February 17, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2011 Thanks for putting me right on the "Mirror" situation, I was unaware of the circumstances. A friend is hoping to speak to Split Waterman in Spain soon, so I may be able to post some info regarding his possible involvement with the "Winged Wheel". Tim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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