Copenhagon 2011

[BongoBrian]

Had a great time in Copenhagen for this GP... Great carnival atmosphere in the City Centre on the Saturday, followed by a very good SGP and the best After GP Party that I have been to yet... The Danish know how to have fun

 

My video of the GP Grand Final... 2011 Danish SGP Final

 

& a short video of the After GP Party outside the Parken Stadium which went on long into the night.

 

Was not a cheap weekend, but was worth every Krone

Edited June 13, 2011 by BongoBrian

[topaz325]

Nicki Pedersen, fair enough, triple world champion and all that but, but sadly lacking in the sportsmanship and grace of his compatriots who went before him in bygone years.

 

Nielsen, Gundersen, Olsen, all multi winning champions, but showing grace, class and maturity that Pedersen couldn't even dream of. After winning the first Grand Prix of 2011, riding up to Gollob and holding 3 fingers up.. then 1.. stating 'you may be a champion, but I'm a triple champion' really is the sign of an immature man.

 

As for Harris falling off all the time on purpose. He knew Crump was loitering behind him, and didn't have the benefit of slow motion to make a decision to fall when Pedersen reared and clipped him. You get hit in speedway, taking the bend, and your balance is upturned and you're off. Look how Lindgren flipped on the first bend bunching, these guys are in the throws of an irregular centre of balance situation... clipped wrongly... you're off.

 

Harris shouldn't have been excluded... Pedersen should... if you're excluding anybody... as he was (albeit accidently)... the cause. Another example of the crazy rules of speedway, only 'all four riders' back for a restart during first corner incident, yet this incident, in many respects, with all four riders battling it out together was identical to a first bend clash. So Pedersen hit some drive or whatever, accidently (for sure) picked up drive, and the riders dominoed. Possible a rule-book review needed??

 

If Harris was inclined to purposefully do such things, admittedly, it would have been difficult at the British Final v. Nicholls. However, if this was the gameplan, surely he would have had time to slow down to a standstill, go near the fence, pull up and look up at the ref?? If Chris Harris was a type of rider who could not pass, then maybe, but how many times in his career have we seen Harris get the bit between his teeth and give it a go?? It's not like he's not capable.

 

Regarding the Lindback incident, Lindback had the drop, did go wide (a la Pedersen style it has to be said!!!!) and Nicki got dosed up with his own medicine.

 

Interesting seeing him say how unfair it is after his exclusion.. after being let off in the Harris clash. Oh woe is me!!!!

 

 

Still, a decent enough GP, good to see Gollob in full flow in his last few rides, superb dash down the back straight in the Final to round everyone in one foul swoop.. and a great effort from Mr. Crump to seal second, in what was a superb Final indeed.

 

 

 

There are a few of them now, challenging. It's gonna be a good one. I wouldn't back against Mr. Gollob now though. His best is yet to come, it's so far mirroring last year, a couple of changes of lead, and the cream is now settling at the top.

 

 

 

Could be back-to-back wins for him. When he's good.... he's flipping good!!

 

Very good post.

[topaz325]

Had a great time in Copenhagen for this GP... Great carnival atmosphere in the City Centre on the Saturday, followed by a very good SGP and the best After GP Party that I have been to yet... The Danish know how to have fun

 

My video of the GP Grand Final... 2011 Danish SGP Final

 

& a short video of the After GP Party outside the Parken Stadium which went on long into the night.

 

Was not a cheap weekend, but was worth every Krone

 

 

I went to Copenhagen a few years ago, not for the Speedway though, as you say its not cheap but a good city to visit and the Carls Special is very nice.

[theblueboy]

Just had read through the salient points and interesting to note that people convinced Bomber should have been excluded from Heat 9.

 

Someone quoted Freddie Lindgren saying 'Harris Out'....would that be the same Freddie Lindgren that fell in Heat 13 of the 2009 Grand Final at Swindon after being tickled by Leigh Adams

 

I wonder if the same vociferous forum members would have agreed with that decision that night had Lindgren been excluded...using the same criteria of course?

[Marmite]

Amazing, Monday morning and we are still discussing it, without getting personal... that is what sport should be about opinions that keep you talking for weeks.

[BWitcher]

I thought Nicki should have been excluded, mostly because he was out of control and caused Harris to move out. I do think Harris dropped it - because he knew Pedersen would get away with it. I just don't like riders who barge their way through as oppposed actually passing a rider. I didn't like Nicholls move in the British Final.

 

In an earlier heat, Pedersen did a simular move on Hancock, but he chose to stay on. Thats the game Pedersen plays with his style of riding!

 

It was nice to see Antonio do a classic Pedersen move on Pedersen, losing control infront a rider trying to pass him.

 

All of this proves that compared to Gollob and Crump, Pedersen does not have the natural talent and relies on either fast gating or playing bumper cars with the opposition.

 

In trying to defend Harris you've just provided the perfect argument why he was correctly excluded.

 

"I do think Harris dropped it" you say. Argument over. End of. Harris dropped it.

 

You say Pedersen did a similar move to Hancock, and Hancock stayed on. Correct. Because Hancock knows this the WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS. Its a tough sport. There should be no place for divers.

 

And as for claiming that Gollob and Crump have never barged their way past anyone, thats just ridiculous! Gollob does it as much as anyone with his inside dives especially into turn 3.

 

There's been a consistent theme through this thread, and its one of bringing up Pedersens 'character' and using that as a reason to exclude him. His character should have nothing whatsoever to do with the incident.

 

As I said before, for those of you struggling to see the difference..

 

Lindgren.. Knocked Off.

 

Harris and Pedersen for that matter.. Dropped it themselves.

 

Its quite obvious.

[BWitcher]

Just had read through the salient points and interesting to note that people convinced Bomber should have been excluded from Heat 9.

 

Someone quoted Freddie Lindgren saying 'Harris Out'....would that be the same Freddie Lindgren that fell in Heat 13 of the 2009 Grand Final at Swindon after being tickled by Leigh Adams

 

I wonder if the same vociferous forum members would have agreed with that decision that night had Lindgren been excluded...using the same criteria of course?

 

That call could have gone either way for sure. Yet, once again a big difference. Lindgren lost control in that bend, he didn't in FULL control gracefully slide of the back of his bike as Harris did.

[The Know]

It's not nonsense. Almost every rider and ex rider I've spoken to agrees Harris could have stayed on but tried to get a rerun.

 

ya best all get up to spec savers then. np is a joke

[Marmite]

In trying to defend Harris you've just provided the perfect argument why he was correctly excluded.

 

"I do think Harris dropped it" you say. Argument over. End of. Harris dropped it.

 

 

No sorry, it is not as simple as that. Whatever phrase you want to use 'fell, dropped it, knocked off' it is about what caused that event that is the important aspect that the referee needs to address.

 

Did Harris cause his own incident, or was the incident instigated by another party.

[DukesGreg]

Diving in speedway, in front of oncoming riders who can run into you at speed... the norm now then????

 

 

And yes, Pedersen's name does seem to be brought up regularly in this thread.

 

 

It's about crashing, falling, hitting riders with your bike and allegations of unfair play. Dread to think why his name is mentioned then.

 

 

Though I disagree with the suggestion that he (Pedersen) doesn't have the natural talent of others. He didn't fluke three World Crowns, he earned them by being a great rider over a full season, x3. And yes, Gollob occasionally does the daft moves, the last one vs. Pedersen in this years GP when he went down, Pedersen on that occasion wholeheartedly and fairly had the racing line and drop on Gollob when overtaking him. Gollob's ramraiding of Sayfudtinov last year on turn three another example.

 

 

All three are good, hard riders. But let's be honest here, for those of us who watch and know speedway, Nicki takes it harder, dirtier and more unfairly when making his moves. And it's probably more frustrating for him nowadays, now that he's out of the frame and less of a dominant force / favourite to win the series. It appears to be win by attrition for him. Plus of course, it was his home GP.

 

 

I could, if my arm was twisted, half get the concept of somebody 'laying their bike down' while clashing in vying for 3rd spot while tailed off by 70 yards, before an awarded 'last lap' scenario, to force a 3 man rerun. We've all seen people fall (in clashes) in team meetings, look up to see where their team mate was, and on them being on the back of a 1-5, stay down.. a similar gamesmanship effort. Appreciated.

 

 

I'm just genuinely struggling with the concept of 'tactical crashing' in front of 3 x oncoming riders hitting the bend, while at the fastest part (the end of the straight) of a race.

 

 

 

Call me old school.

 

 

Agreed at the earlier comment though, about it being a healthy thread with no insults traded.

 

 

 

Long me it continue, and here's to Cardiff, more Pedersen random craziness, some hard riding, and healthy debate.

[ImpartialOne]

ya best all get up to spec savers then. np is a joke

You're hardly likely to call it any other way though when Harris is involved.

[ImpartialOne]

No sorry, it is not as simple as that. Whatever phrase you want to use 'fell, dropped it, knocked off' it is about what caused that event that is the important aspect that the referee needs to address.

 

Did Harris cause his own incident, or was the incident instigated by another party.

Harris caused his own incident. Had he gone down immediately it would have been caused by the collision. But his first instinct was to save it, then thought no, I'm stuffed here, let's go for a rerun.

Good post earlier about the discussion without abuse. Totally agree, makes a nice change.

[BWitcher]

No sorry, it is not as simple as that. Whatever phrase you want to use 'fell, dropped it, knocked off' it is about what caused that event that is the important aspect that the referee needs to address.

 

Did Harris cause his own incident, or was the incident instigated by another party.

 

Correct.

 

And Harris caused the race stoppage.

 

Pedersen made contact and moved Harris off the line. A move done time and again throughout the history of speedway. Harris, having been moved of his line had 2 choices. Continue, and likely be overtaken by 2, perhaps 3 of the other riders in the race (incidentally a choice Hancock made earlier in the meeting.. and he got back on the gas and battled his way back to get a pt). Or, choose to get off the bike. Harris chose the 2nd option, caused the stoppage of the race and was rightfully excluded.

 

Anyhow, I think we are going round in circles now, so likely best the two camps agree to disagree!

Edited June 13, 2011 by BWitcher

[ImpartialOne]

Correct.

 

And Harris caused the race stoppage.

 

Pedersen made contact and moved Harris off the line. A move done time and again throughout the history of speedway. Harris, having been moved of his line had 2 choices. Continue, and likely be overtaken by 2, perhaps 3 of the other riders in the race (incidentally a choice Hancock made earlier in the meeting.. and he got back on the gas and battled his way back to get a pt). Or, choose to get off the bike. Harris chose the 2nd option, caused the stoppage of the race and was rightfully excluded.

 

Anyhow, I think we are going round in circles now, so likely best the two camps agree to disagree!

What she said..

[Marmite]

Anyhow, I think we are going round in circles now

 

 

Well that's what speedway is all about, lol

[spook]

Absolutely correct. Only some speedway fans will argue nonesense. (im amazed no one has started a `black and white helmet ` row. Is it really black? Surely thats more cream than white! ).

 

I pretty much read it the same way. A fall IS a fall. The fact there was clear contact meant that the rider being pushed/touched/knocked is likely to be put off balance. So a fall quite often is likely.

 

Who is at fault will ALWAYS be debated - dont think thats the issue.

 

Im sure riders DO make tactical falls tho - if they feel it is safe to do so.

 

With Crump so close there would appear madness to suggest Bomber made a tactical fall.

 

NP made contact and bomber fell. Without the contact there wouldnt have been a fall! Only the dirty Dane to blame if he chooses to ride that way.

 

 

 

 

Only Harris knows if it was tactical. His body language suggest he was aggrieved by it so i tend to agree with Bomber.

 

The problem i guess lies in `history`. If Pedersen has a history of barging thru or into riders and Bomber has a history of jumping off the bike (cant say ive noticed) then more often than not if they clash and Bomber falls then NP is likely to be excluded. And rightly so in my opinion.

When NP doesnt have the speed , as has been evidenced in the past few years, he reverts back to type and barges his way thru. He seems to have more exclusions as a result of that.

Therefore think there can be only one conclusion to reach!

 

On the subject of `tactical dive` Pedersen again showed how to do that perfectly when he lay it down when Lindback took his line

 

and this is the post that has made the most sense ......

 

once it has been established that someone bashed into someone else ... and enough to move them from white line to mid track..... what more do you want in the form of evidence?

[Reviresco]

Loving the versions of 'falling' on this thread.

 

If you get hit, going into the first bend, from behind... YOU FALL!!!!

 

You don't debate it.. you don't worry about your points tally. You don't wonder about the effect on the meeting and exclusions.

 

You kiss your backside goodbye, and hope that the rider behind doesn't rip you a fresh one.

 

 

 

If a motorcyclist rode past you at 50mph, and you could kick him gently from the side, or behind near his wheel. He would fall over.

 

 

 

I'm fascinated by the 'different types of falling' nonsense on here.

 

We all, especially the riders, know that most innocuous and innocent looking of all falls can cause the most damage. Alan Wilkinson's, which we all know caused paralysis, was supposedly the most innocent looking of crashes. The most horrific can be nothing, the gentlest can maim.

 

 

To suggest that riders are 'taking a dive' in general out there is utterly ridiculous.

 

 

It's not the penalty box in football.

 

 

It's life or death speedway.

 

 

Let's keep it real.

 

Totally agree.

 

I can't belive the utter rubbish ImpartialOne and BWitcher have been spouting on here. Riding a speedway bike is about balance and throttle control. If you are tipped going into a corner you will lose balance. Pedersen tipped Harris, Harris lost balance and fell. Pedersen has no throttle control.

 

What Riders & Ex Riders, ImpartialOne? Name them please.

 

Little Nikki is a disgrace to himself, the sport of speedway and his country.

Edited June 13, 2011 by macca56

[DukesGreg]

Totally agree.

 

I can't belive the utter rubbish ImpartialOne and BWitcher have been spouting on here. Riding a speedway bike is about balance and throttle control. If you are tipped going into a corner you will lose balance. Pedersen tipped Harris, Harris lost balance and fell. Pedersen has no throttle control.

 

What Riders & Ex Riders, ImpartialOne? Name them please.

 

Little Nikki is a disgrace to himself, the sport of speedway and his country.

 

 

 

 

Just before anyone says anything, of course my post earlier (see two posts above) has seen the above added to it by macca56, and are not the words or opinions of myself towards other forum members.

 

I think macca56 may have added without quoting himself or putting responses in italics or bold type, accidently.

 

I hope that clears it up, in case anyone thinks at a glance that I have been ranting about other forum members in my posts... it's a mix of both mine and his.

 

 

Many thanks,

 

 

Greg.

 

 

 

 

FOOTNOTE:

 

 

Nice one macca, you were editing your post as I was declaring it a mix of both myself and you, now my post here looks daft as you've made it read better. :rofl:

 

 

Technology!!

Edited June 13, 2011 by DukesGreg

[Reviresco]

Just before anyone says anything, of course my post earlier (see two posts above) has seen the above added to it by macca56, and are not the words or opinions of myself towards other forum members.

 

I think macca56 may have added without quoting himself or putting responses in italics or bold type, accidently.

 

I hope that clears it up, in case anyone thinks at a glance that I have been ranting about other forum members in my posts... it's a mix of both mine and his.

 

 

Many thanks,

 

 

Greg.

 

 

 

 

FOOTNOTE:

 

 

Nice one macca, you were editing your post as I was declaring it a mix of both myself and you, now my post here looks daft as you've made it read better. :rofl:

 

 

Technology!!

 

 

Agreed, sorry mate managed to get my comment in the middle of yours first go. All the best.

[ImpartialOne]

Totally agree.

 

I can't belive the utter rubbish ImpartialOne and BWitcher have been spouting on here. Riding a speedway bike is about balance and throttle control. If you are tipped going into a corner you will lose balance. Pedersen tipped Harris, Harris lost balance and fell. Pedersen has no throttle control.

 

What Riders & Ex Riders, ImpartialOne? Name them please.

 

Little Nikki is a disgrace to himself, the sport of speedway and his country.

Rubbish? Why, because you have a different opinion?

 

Why do you need names? All that matters is the majority of people I have spoken to who have been in that position first hand see it that way. It's of no relevance who they are and I am not going to put their names on a public forum.

 

Whether it is correct or not it's an opinion from a rider's point of view in that situation, that's all. From some of the posts here it is clear some don't know what they are talking about but that's their view and it's fine. That's why we are here, no need to get upset about peoples views.