Revamp - Less Polish Contol Over The Sport

[Humphrey Appleby]

You are wrong about the FIM they are just too usless at arranging a venue, and implementing a track.

 

The FIM have nothing to do with it anymore. They've long since sold off the promoting rights to IMG/BSI, so it's up to that company to make it happen.

 

There are plenty of stadiums in Australia that could host a major speedway meeting if the will were there, but the simple issue is cost. The financial risks are too high for the potential returns, and until that changes it just isn't going to happen.

 

Even if the FIM were a charity, it would be grossly irresponsible for a governing body to risk losing so much money. Governing bodies are not in that business - that's why promoters exist...

[dirt]

Are we going further off topic now? It's a topic that I like, but just wanted to check

 

Thanks to their shared history of being part of the Soviet Union, there are a large number of Latvian citizens who have Russian ancestry, especially around the Southern areas of the Country. However, a large part of the Nation has some pretty bad feelings for Russia for the way they scooped them into the Soviet Union.

Most of the women are unlikely to be able to class themselves as true Russians, but how many I wouldn't be able to say. I am happy to carry out a further investigation of Latvian women if you want to sponsor it and get me over there to meet more of them

 

The Czech Republic is very different as despite being Communist for the latter part of the 20th Century, it was never part of the Soviet Union, so the Russians didn't really move there. A tiny portion of their population has recent Russian ancestry, and the Czechs probably dislike the Russians even more than the Latvians.

 

Essentially, the women from Central and Eastern Europe are generally pretty hot. They don't have to be Russian to be hot

Sorry, I missed this post before not a bad topic! - I can imagine minimal difference in quality of women from this whole region, with it being all pretty hot.

 

The Soviet Union, USSR, and other names used throughout time, totally confuse Russia and its neighbouring countries (for me anyway and I would need to study it full-time to catch up on the basic history! not likely), and what is what. That is fact. Although I have no doubt their is little between most of those countries regarding the quality of their ladies.

 

I know Marat Safin is Russian, Anna Kournikova, plenty of current women tennis players, but the Czech Rep rings a bell where Ivan Lendl is concerned and also Peter Korda, while the current suspected match fixer ...nikoay Davydenko, is of course Russian as I had a feeling he may be, but initially thought he may be Czech, Yevgeny Kafelkikov also was Russian while im there! all from my memory which isnt like a computer and could be quite wrong.

 

Latvians have some top BMX riders if im not wrong inc World Champ and are producing some decent speedway riders to boot.

Edited December 13, 2010 by dirt

[dirt]

The FIM have nothing to do with it anymore. They've long since sold off the promoting rights to IMG/BSI, so it's up to that company to make it happen.

 

There are plenty of stadiums in Australia that could host a major speedway meeting if the will were there, but the simple issue is cost. The financial risks are too high for the potential returns, and until that changes it just isn't going to happen.

 

Even if the FIM were a charity, it would be grossly irresponsible for a governing body to risk losing so much money. Governing bodies are not in that business - that's why promoters exist...

Yes I might of called them the wrong name, but usually i refer to 'the governing body' as I dont study what they call themselves.

 

I do know Ivan Mauger was working for this company and on official duties in Australia about a year ago, and was looking,inspecting and reporting back to the 'governing body' on his findings. He mentioned some tracks he thought may have potential during a speech at Perth in Nov last year.

 

No promoter is just going to hand over what 'the governing body' say is the right or fair amount as corruption is all part of their make up, and unless this gov body sit down with interested promoters and discuss details and figures and chip in with some collateral amount, which could be used as security and prove they wont rip off the promoter, how could anyone be expected to hand over 100000 odd dollars just to get the ball rolling. Its up to IMG/BSI to start the negotiations and show they mean business NOT the idea of waiting for someone to give them a bag of cash before they get interested/motivated.IMO

[Humphrey Appleby]

how could anyone be expected to hand over 100000 odd dollars just to get the ball rolling.

 

That's how F1 and MotoGP work, and Bernie Ecclestone and Carmelo Ezpeleta would claim that staging a GP should generate more income than the very large fees paid to their companies to bring it to town. IMG/BSI is merely trying to emulate the big boys in this sense, although aren't in the same league.

 

Its up to IMG/BSI to start the negotiations and show they mean business NOT the idea of waiting for someone to give them a bag of cash before they get interested/motivated.IMO

 

IMG/BSI are in the game to make money for their shareholders. It doesn't really matter to them whether the GPs are in Australia or Timbuktu provided someone stumps up the cash to host them. They mostly make their money through television and sponsorship, rather than who comes through the turnstiles.

[dirt]

That's how F1 and MotoGP work, and Bernie Ecclestone and Carmelo Ezpeleta would claim that staging a GP should generate more income than the very large fees paid to their companies to bring it to town. IMG/BSI is merely trying to emulate the big boys in this sense, although aren't in the same league.

 

 

 

IMG/BSI are in the game to make money for their shareholders. It doesn't really matter to them whether the GPs are in Australia or Timbuktu provided someone stumps up the cash to host them. They mostly make their money through television and sponsorship, rather than who comes through the turnstiles.

How much do they want for a round?

 

whats the going quote? if you know.

 

Who gets the television rights money say if Australia sold it back to sky in britain , poland,and rest of europe?

 

and what exactly do you get for paying the fee for a round? next to nothing Id imagine. except rules and regulations and having to look after all the hangers on associated with this BSI/IMG venture.

 

Do all gate takings and money made on the night remain with the promoter?

 

How much do they want to bring their circus to your city or town, and whats included in this package.

 

as if it was fair the TV money would be worth more than other GPs as its a special not to be missed historical event not like the boring year after year borefests like some including Prague I believe which has copped criticism.

 

All I ask is a percentage of the shipment of the bikes cost be paid by IMG/BSI to make it viable and possibly prosperous in future.

 

It just is as if its all to hard for the hard working company, who dont wish to work more than needed especially if they have to work out of their season ' the Europeon season' march-october.

[Humphrey Appleby]

How much do they want for a round?

 

It's supposedly confidential, but a rumour of GBP 50K per GP was doing the rounds a few years ago.

 

Last year though, the Polish media published leaked details of the deal done by Gorzow City Council to host the SWC (see http://www.speedway-forum.co.uk/forums/index.php?showtopic=51366). The fee was reputedly GBP 300K, although it wasn't clear whether this was just for the SWC or included the GPs from 2011 until 2015.

 

Who gets the television rights money say if Australia sold it back to sky in britain , poland,and rest of europe?

 

IMG/BSI owns and sells the television rights around the world and therefore the money accrues to them. They also receive the sponsorship money, although a couple of local sponsors are apparently permitted at each GP.

 

And what exactly do you get for paying the fee for a round? next to nothing Id imagine.

 

You get the 16 riders plus necessary (and no doubt some unnecessary) officials turning up. The local promoter takes the financial risk on the GP, so it's up to them to ensure they'll generate enough money at the gate to cover their outgoings. This said, local councils and tourist boards have underwritten these costs on the grounds that it gets people to stay and spend money in their cities.

 

A handful of GPs (the showcase ones) are seemingly promoted by BSI themselves, so presumably they take the financial risk on these themselves, although one would think they don't charge themselves a staging fee.

 

as if it was fair the TV money would be worth more than other GPs

 

I don't see why an Australian GP would command more money, even if the events were sold separately. Outside of Britain and Poland, I imagine the series is sold as generic filler material and might as well be held in Ulan Bator for all the audience cares. For some strange reason, I watch ski jumping a fair bit and the classic event is Holmenkollen, but how many people who watch Eurosport on a dreary Saturday afternoon would know that, far less care?

[dirt]

A handful of GPs (the showcase ones) are seemingly promoted by BSI themselves, so presumably they take the financial risk on these themselves, although one would think they don't charge themselves a staging fee.

Thanks for all the information and I'll study it further - but this about sums it up. If they can afford to not charge extra fees and reep all rewards for their 'showcase GPs' then surely they can contribute towards shipment of bikes and rider costs (which is the main expense Id imagine working against an oz round) for a GP that is paying fees to them!

 

Talk about uneven playing field.

 

They would require a massive staging fee id imagine, enough to turn off any likely promoter, so no they are not trying to get a GP over here, like some say they are.

 

You would think the fact that up to 3 GPs are in the one country, might make the idea seem a bit more logical...but nup.

 

Truthfully I think within 3-4 years we will get a GP and hopefully it will continue, because discrimination and racism cannot be tolerated for long!

 

Thats if the series owners dont go out of business or it gets taken over by a more astute business operation.

 

TBH the SWC would be just as good if not better and maybe more possible, as its not run for money I would doubt and has some credability - if we could get the final in Australia it might be a better bid. as we are about due. infact overdue.

[WIE-JA]

Thanks for all the information and I'll study it further - but this about sums it up. If they can afford to not charge extra fees and reep all rewards for their 'showcase GPs' then surely they can contribute towards shipment of bikes and rider costs (which is the main expense Id imagine working against an oz round) for a GP that is paying fees to them!

 

Talk about uneven playing field.

 

They would require a massive staging fee id imagine, enough to turn off any likely promoter, so no they are not trying to get a GP over here, like some say they are.

 

You would think the fact that up to 3 GPs are in the one country, might make the idea seem a bit more logical...but nup.

 

Truthfully I think within 3-4 years we will get a GP and hopefully it will continue, because discrimination and racism cannot be tolerated for long!

 

Thats if the series owners dont go out of business or it gets taken over by a more astute business operation.

 

TBH the SWC would be just as good if not better and maybe more possible, as its not run for money I would doubt and has some credability - if we could get the final in Australia it might be a better bid. as we are about due. infact overdue.

It's hardly racism by the series owners that Australia doesn't have promoter prepared to stage a GP. Hopefully as you say, in the not too distant future there will be a GP in Australia and it will thrive. As for the series owners not being very astute at business, you will find they are one of the most successful sports promotions companies in the world. Fingers crossed for the future

[dirt]

What promotion have they done for this sport? bugger all.

 

infact its going downhill. with it becoming boring with same old tracks etc.

 

Id rather deal with FIM for the World Cup than crooked wannabee promoters who are nothing but a company!

 

with the interests of a sport not even considered in their money making scam/plan.

[WIE-JA]

What promotion have they done for this sport? bugger all.

TV advertising, bringing in sponsors etc. As for the same tired old tracks, what about Torun, Gorzow, Teranzano which have been added in the last year or so?

[dirt]

hardly enough

! thats like changing your jocks 3 times a year, is that good enough?

 

3 slight changes in a year, what do they want a pat on the bum?

 

It must be a hard job weighing up the offers of money from cities and having to decide which one they go for or give the green light to - made easier of course by the fact that whoever offers or gives them a sweeteer deal will always win out, that must take a lot of the heartache or tough decisions out , So it isnt that hard a job after all.

 

Doing whats right for the sport, thats a whole different thing and a concept that isnt familiar to them at all.

 

It makes me wonder why the FIM havent jumped in and scheduled a world cup final over here, or an u/21 rnd (final)....oh thats right they prob will soon. The croats , Latvians etc have had their go and done a good job, nothing a new upcoming track like Kurri coundnt match or better. Perfect timing for the sport in NSW to flourish. see 10 mins worth highlights with the link in Int section. Great trackk, perfect little track.

 

2012 prospect for sure for u/21s with it or Gillman a chance for WC final, or Etihad stadium in melb for the world team cup how brilliant would that be...or another foorty ground in melb or syd maybe..........

Edited December 13, 2010 by dirt

[Humphrey Appleby]

TV advertising, bringing in sponsors etc.

 

But how is this money actually benefitting speedway?

[dirt]

But how is this money actually benefitting speedway?

bang hit nail on head

[WIE-JA]

But how is this money actually benefitting speedway?

It makes the general public aware of the sport. I know quite a few people who watch TV speedway who thought the sport had died many years ago and are now looking forward to going to Leicester when it re-opens. If it keeps it in the public eye, that's got to help.

[dirt]

It makes the general public aware of the sport. I know quite a few people who watch TV speedway who thought the sport had died many years ago and are now looking forward to going to Leicester when it re-opens. If it keeps it in the public eye, that's got to help.

TV Advertising? So the IMG/BSI or whoever own GPs run Tv advertisments. Which meetings and when and where do they pay for TV ADS?

 

I think your getting advertising mixed up with TV rights - which they make money from - its not advertising where it costs money!!!! they are simply selling the product to TV companies such as sky!!! IMO.

 

 

That is a classical mistake, unless im way off the mark - which I doubt!

 

show me an ad for any speedway shown on TV? let alone one from BSI/IMG?

 

If such existed it would be done by SKY or the tv channel to advertise their program....nothing to do with advertising from BSI/IMG! wake up, wie jar

Edited December 14, 2010 by dirt

[Humphrey Appleby]

It makes the general public aware of the sport.

 

I wouldn't disagree that being on television, possibly keeps speedway in the public eye and possibly has prevented a greater decline that otherwise might have been the case. However, all this could equally have been done by the speedway powers-that-be, and they'd also have 1.5 million in their pockets as well.

[WIE-JA]

TV Advertising? So the IMG/BSI or whoever own GPs run Tv advertisments. Which meetings and when and where do they pay for TV ADS?

 

I think your getting advertising mixed up with TV rights - which they make money from - its not advertising where it costs money!!!! they are simply selling the product to TV companies such as sky!!! IMO.

 

 

That is a classical mistake, unless im way off the mark - which I doubt!

 

show me an ad for any speedway shown on TV? let alone one from BSI/IMG?

 

If such existed it would be done by SKY or the tv channel to advertise their program....nothing to do with advertising from BSI/IMG! wake up, wie jar

Where I live in the world we have some adverts on TV promoting upcoming GPs and World Cup meetings. I can't speak for what happens in a minority backwater though.

[stevehone]

i thought that when the GP was held in Sydney a few years ago there was so much money lost by the promoter it was quickly knocked on the head.

not sure if it wasn't well enough supported or what the reason was, but i think financially it was a bit of a disaster.

 

i also noticed at the start of the thread Dirt mentioned New Zealand when listing previous world titles etc, but that country soon disappeared from the thread when the mention of where a GP should be held came up

[dirt]

i thought that when the GP was held in Sydney a few years ago there was so much money lost by the promoter it was quickly knocked on the head.

not sure if it wasn't well enough supported or what the reason was, but i think financially it was a bit of a disaster.

 

i also noticed at the start of the thread Dirt mentioned New Zealand when listing previous world titles etc, but that country soon disappeared from the thread when the mention of where a GP should be held came up

Do they have more suitable venues over in kiwi land than we do unless they do, they can always travel over to our land if they like to see a GP?

 

Why would you want to host it over their? their number of good riders hasnt been what you'd call up to ours lately now has it.

 

A bit of rewarding the riders whove done great things for this sport lately and all through history. Respecting the contribution of the current crop and basically justice for a great country.

 

As for a debacle in sydney...maYBE thats what you get when you expect a promoter to foot every bill and pay everything himself, what a joke.

Edited December 17, 2010 by dirt

[WIE-JA]

[quote name='dirt' timestamp='1292629668' post='18475

 

As for a debacle in sydney...maYBE thats what you get when you expect a promoter to foot every bill and pay everything himself, what a joke.

That's what most of the other GP promoters have to do Burt. It's up to the promoter to make sure his income from whatever means is larger than the outgoings.