montie Posted January 11, 2011 Report Share Posted January 11, 2011 Are there enough British riders around? Assume that every team who rode last year rides this year, with Stoke replacing Plymouth. The league has already lost Mark Simmonds and Nicki Glanz, so that's 2 heat leaders gone, and I can't see Seemond Stephens riding again. Where are the top end riders going to come from? Personally, as narrow minded as it may sound, I'm not too interested with bringing forward the next generation of riders. In an ideal world, Stoke are only going to be NL for one season, so we need riders who will, hopefully, be able to step up the next season. From what I saw of Armstrong, I feel he could be a rider capable of doing that. Another point, on a slight tangent, is why do we not allow foreign riders into the NL? Make it mandatory to have x amount of British riders, 2 of whom must be under 19, and work from there? Too often our younger riders are protected up until they attempt to make the step up, only ever facing people who have a knowledge of British speedway, and then they hit the PL, with a whole new level of professionalism that is brought about from having a multi-national league, and it appears from the outside to be a huge culture shock for them. If i have read the Boarders Agency correct it impossible to have Aussies in the NL due to the work permit thing,i dont the think the SCB or BSPA can do much about it,hence when questions are asked about certain chappies in the NL last year, folk go quiet,as clearly they shouldnt have been riding,the rye house use of Tyson Nelson confirms it, The lads with british passports can tho as again it BA rules not BSPA/SCB,if i have read it correct it would be against the rules to stop them This is only as i have read the rules but i could be wrong but it seem fairly clear Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Islander15 Posted January 11, 2011 Report Share Posted January 11, 2011 (edited) Are there enough British riders around? Assume that every team who rode last year rides this year, with Stoke replacing Plymouth. The league has already lost Mark Simmonds and Nicki Glanz, so that's 2 heat leaders gone, and I can't see Seemond Stephens riding again. Where are the top end riders going to come from? Personally, as narrow minded as it may sound, I'm not too interested with bringing forward the next generation of riders. In an ideal world, Stoke are only going to be NL for one season, so we need riders who will, hopefully, be able to step up the next season. From what I saw of Armstrong, I feel he could be a rider capable of doing that. Another point, on a slight tangent, is why do we not allow foreign riders into the NL? Make it mandatory to have x amount of British riders, 2 of whom must be under 19, and work from there? Too often our younger riders are protected up until they attempt to make the step up, only ever facing people who have a knowledge of British speedway, and then they hit the PL, with a whole new level of professionalism that is brought about from having a multi-national league, and it appears from the outside to be a huge culture shock for them. Yes, it does sound very narrow minded! IOW originally stepped down for 1 year, 2 at most and now they enter their 3rd year in the NL and it seems unlikely that thye finances will let them step up for another 2-3 years at least. Any anyway even if Stoke do return next year, you might possibly find one guy this year to move up with you next year, but more than likely 5 or 6 of them, if not all 7 will be or have ridden Premier some time (whether it be for Stoke or not). And who knows, there may even be an unkown junior start at No. 7 next year who in several years time (alright, qquite a long time) rides at No. 1 for a Stoke EL title-winning side Edited January 11, 2011 by Islander15 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vog Posted January 11, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2011 Yes, it does sound very narrow minded! IOW originally stepped down for 1 year, 2 at most and now they enter their 3rd year in the NL and it seems unlikely that thye finances will let them step up for another 2-3 years at least. Any anyway even if Stoke do return next year, you might possibly find one guy this year to move up with you next year, but more than likely 5 or 6 of them, if not all 7 will be or have ridden Premier some time (whether it be for Stoke or not). And who knows, there may even be an unkown junior start at No. 7 next year who in several years time (alright, qquite a long time) rides at No. 1 for a Stoke EL title-winning side I thought that IoW's problem was that the crowds at the early and late part of the season weren't enough to run, even given the higher crowds during the summer months, and that the NL was a more viable option because of the lack of meetings at the extremes of the season. As for finding someone to move up with us, great, but I worry about us having the time to develop riders over 2 to 3 seasons. This is arguably one of the most important seasons in the recent history of Stoke Speedway. If we get this wrong, I can see the crowds dropping dramatically. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
21st century heathen Posted January 11, 2011 Report Share Posted January 11, 2011 This is a bit random but as I was sat here doing nothing much at lunch time I decided to have a quick look through this thread. Now admittedly I have speed-read it so apologies in advance if I've missed something but a point for Vog. Compton on 12 would be stupid as he's only going to drop his average, and the chances are there will be more teams and a lower points limit this season meaning a weak bottom end would be nailed-on. However, I do think a bit of experience in the team to help the young lads is a smart move. I believe it helped our lads to the top of the table last season. If you've got riders like Burrows and Felton on the books then use them. They have more experience and will fill holes in the team that would need to be plugged anyway, namely 5-7 pointers. And of course you wouldn't have to pay out a huge loan fee, as would surely be the case with someone like Compton, so that fulfils another important factor. I would use Evans while I was at it as, for exactly the same reasons. Those three would be a good start to team building and then try to get some 'kids' in and around them with a view to the future Is Priest yours? Just my humble opinion of course mate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vog Posted January 11, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2011 This is a bit random but as I was sat here doing nothing much at lunch time I decided to have a quick look through this thread. Now admittedly I have speed-read it so apologies in advance if I've missed something but a point for Vog. Compton on 12 would be stupid as he's only going to drop his average, and the chances are there will be more teams and a lower points limit this season meaning a weak bottom end would be nailed-on. However, I do think a bit of experience in the team to help the young lads is a smart move. I believe it helped our lads to the top of the table last season. If you've got riders like Burrows and Felton on the books then use them. They have more experience and will fill holes in the team that would need to be plugged anyway, namely 5-7 pointers. And of course you wouldn't have to pay out a huge loan fee, as would surely be the case with someone like Compton, so that fulfils another important factor. I would use Evans while I was at it as, for exactly the same reasons. Those three would be a good start to team building and then try to get some 'kids' in and around them with a view to the future Is Priest yours? Just my humble opinion of course mate. I noted that Compton was on a 12, it was just a name that would have fitted the bill had it not been for his average. The problem Stoke have is that when we were in the NL last time, it was awful. Unprofessionally run, same old faces year in year out, and very little in the way of young riders coming through. More fans want a break away from those days, so by using the same names, although numerous years on, it is still a link to that awful past. Evans is possibly the only Stoke asset that I wouldn't mind riding for us, as I think he would do a very solid job as a second heat leader. As for Priest, I think he is still a Sheffield asset. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
21st century heathen Posted January 11, 2011 Report Share Posted January 11, 2011 So do you think that in the first season dropping back down the club should risk splashing out of a team full of, except one if Evans were used, loanees? If there is some uncertainty about how the fans will react to the drop down, and of course in particular how it will affect attendances (and given the current economic climate), is this not an unnecessary risk? I know what you mean but you will need 5/7 pointers and you will need, in both of our opinion, older riders to pass in experience and you already have that on your books. I know the cost of bringing loan riders in will be offset if you can loan riders out but I would expect it to cost significantly more than you save if you bring 6 in and loan 2 out. Let me put this another way - realistically speaking, rather than riders that are all-but nailed on elsewhere, who would you bring in? Must be a chance of using Priest then? Rough averages rounded to nearest whole number... Evans - 8 Burrows - 7 Priest - 6 Felton - 5 looks like a perfectly good start to team building to me. A couple of last seasons high-flyers will be missing from the NL this coming season which is also a consideration when your looking at top end strength. It will probably leave something like 15 points for the other 3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vog Posted January 11, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2011 So do you think that in the first season dropping back down the club should risk splashing out of a team full of, except one if Evans were used, loanees? If there is some uncertainty about how the fans will react to the drop down, and of course in particular how it will affect attendances (and given the current economic climate), is this not an unnecessary risk? I know what you mean but you will need 5/7 pointers and you will need, in both of our opinion, older riders to pass in experience and you already have that on your books. I know the cost of bringing loan riders in will be offset if you can loan riders out but I would expect it to cost significantly more than you save if you bring 6 in and loan 2 out. Let me put this another way - realistically speaking, rather than riders that are all-but nailed on elsewhere, who would you bring in? Must be a chance of using Priest then? Rough averages rounded to nearest whole number... Evans - 8 Burrows - 7 Priest - 6 Felton - 5 looks like a perfectly good start to team building to me. A couple of last seasons high-flyers will be missing from the NL this coming season which is also a consideration when your looking at top end strength. It will probably leave something like 15 points for the other 3. Again, the problem is, Stoke fans can be quite fickle. It looks a solid start to team building, but realistically, none of those riders will be productive in years going forward. I will be honest, I have no idea what the points limit will look like, or what it was last season, but this time around for Stoke it needs to be fresh faces. There isn't going to be the huge loan fees involved in the PL, or the larger wages involved, so both of those will reduce our running costs, and on the crowds we have, if they stay at a reasonable level, we should be able to put a team that is both competitive and captures the fans imagination. The worst thing Tattum can do, I think, is go with all the old assets, as the fans will leave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Islander15 Posted January 11, 2011 Report Share Posted January 11, 2011 (edited) I thought that IoW's problem was that the crowds at the early and late part of the season weren't enough to run, even given the higher crowds during the summer months, and that the NL was a more viable option because of the lack of meetings at the extremes of the season. As for finding someone to move up with us, great, but I worry about us having the time to develop riders over 2 to 3 seasons. This is arguably one of the most important seasons in the recent history of Stoke Speedway. If we get this wrong, I can see the crowds dropping dramatically. I read in this weeks speedway star that Dave Tattum says he has a three-year-plan to move the Potters back into the Premier, surely some juniors could move upo in that time scale. Plus look at last year's Scunny Saints: Ashley Birks is now with Sheffield after 1 NL season, Steve Worrall is with the Scorpions (and he rode for them at the back end of last year) and Richie Worrall is with Newcastle despite only making his debut June time. I'm just saying it's not impossible for first timers to go NL in their 2nd year, or even 1st(Craig Cook)) Btw in the last couple of comments between you and 21stCH you mention Compton on a 12. Well if you mean Benji (surely Andre's average is too high) then 2 things: 1. I tought he announced his retirement last year and 2. if he rides he'll have a 6.28 average (well that's what he had for 2010 Scunny Saints) Edited January 13, 2011 by Islander15 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vog Posted January 11, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2011 One of the problems was the drop in crowds outside of the holiday season, but that was only a contributing factor as to why they went down. It simply became a loss of money but that was because lots was being wasted on needless and, quite frankly, stupid things. Though after some of those people leaving during 2010 the future looks better, but the club still ows a lot of money. Anyway this is a Stoke thread I read in this weeks speedway star that Dave Tattum says he has a three-year-plan to move the Potters back into the Premier, surely some juniors could move upo in that time scale. Plus look at last year's Scunny Saints: Ashley Birks is now with Sheffield after 1 NL season, Steve Worrall is with the Scorpions (and he rode for them at the back end of last year) and Richie Worrall is with Newcastle despite only making his debut June time. I'm just saying it's not impossible for first timers to go NL in their 2nd year, or even 1st(Craig Cook)) Btw in the last couple of comments between you and 21stCH you mention Compton on a 12. Well if you mean Benji (surely Andre's average is too high) then 2 things: 1. I tought he announced his retirement last year and 2. if he rides he'll have a 6.28 average (well that's what he had for 2010 Scunny Saints) Alas, only Dave knows what he will want to do (And possibly Malcolm), I just hope we can build a team that will challenge at the top. And know, I meant Andre. His PL average this season was 5.97, so could, in theory, drop down on 11.94! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Islander15 Posted January 12, 2011 Report Share Posted January 12, 2011 Alas, only Dave knows what he will want to do (And possibly Malcolm), I just hope we can build a team that will challenge at the top. And know, I meant Andre. His PL average this season was 5.97, so could, in theory, drop down on 11.94! I don't want to sound against you or anything here, but assuming the rules don't change Andre's average would be too high for him to do both leagues, as you can only ride NL if you're average with a PL team is below 4.00 at the start of the season. Think of Charles Wright at Buxton last year. He could start the season for the Hitmen because he didn't have a PL side, but then when he signed for Redcar he did have a PL team and an average over 4.00 (4.75 as it happened), so he had to be replaced in the Buxton side. So unless he only does NL, he can't ride in that league and to be perfectly honest he's a lot better than that league anyway. Admittedly he wouldn't keep his 12, but should be above 9.5 if not 10. Its his decision at the end of the day, but even if he struggles at the start of the season in the PL (assuming that's what he wants and/or is signed), he would be some force at reserve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vog Posted January 12, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2011 I don't want to sound against you or anything here, but assuming the rules don't change Andre's average would be too high for him to do both leagues, as you can only ride NL if you're average with a PL team is below 4.00 at the start of the season. Think of Charles Wright at Buxton last year. He could start the season for the Hitmen because he didn't have a PL side, but then when he signed for Redcar he did have a PL team and an average over 4.00 (4.75 as it happened), so he had to be replaced in the Buxton side. So unless he only does NL, he can't ride in that league and to be perfectly honest he's a lot better than that league anyway. Admittedly he wouldn't keep his 12, but should be above 9.5 if not 10. Its his decision at the end of the day, but even if he struggles at the start of the season in the PL (assuming that's what he wants and/or is signed), he would be some force at reserve Don't worry, I know that part of the rules! Andre hasn't got a club as of yet, and it is looking less and less likely that he will! Hence my saying he is the type of rider I wouldn't mind. Stupidly, Charles Wright could now ride in both leagues as his average has dropped below 4! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrystalCastles Posted January 12, 2011 Report Share Posted January 12, 2011 Roynon could too now that would be a cracking signing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vog Posted January 12, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2011 Roynon could too now that would be a cracking signing If only. A team that has a top 3 of Evans, Roynon and Charles Wright would be looking good! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Islander15 Posted January 12, 2011 Report Share Posted January 12, 2011 If only. A team that has a top 3 of Evans, Roynon and Charles Wright would be looking good! Yeah, and the most ridiculous part of that, Roynon has an EL place (No 8 yes, but he'll still ride) and Wright doesn't even have a PL side! I thought he would have been a nailed-on for Worky, but I read in the speedway star that they've been looking at upto 6 riders for that spot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big lad Posted January 12, 2011 Report Share Posted January 12, 2011 Vog, have you not been reading potters power, the place will not last the season , as nobody wants to watch NL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrystalCastles Posted January 12, 2011 Report Share Posted January 12, 2011 If only. A team that has a top 3 of Evans, Roynon and Charles Wright would be looking good! Would be cracking Stranger things have happened Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vog Posted January 12, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2011 Vog, have you not been reading potters power, the place will not last the season , as nobody wants to watch NL. Of course I have, and you know this. You also know that the last poll ran said that 42% of people would continue to go, with a further 25% saying that they would go to the odd meeting. Obviously it is difficult to extrapolate this result over the whole crowd as only 64 people voted, but given the fact that running costs are lower in the NL, and that stock cars are now going to be bringing in an income, I can see very little reason why Stoke will not survive. Certainly, saying that "Nobody wants to watch NL" is a bit far fetched. Yes, there is still anger and disappointment within the ranks of fans, but that doesn't imply that no person wants to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swift Saint Posted January 12, 2011 Report Share Posted January 12, 2011 Vog, have you not been reading potters power, the place will not last the season , as nobody wants to watch NL That's the same six or seven Stoke "supporters" repeating their intentions ad nauseum. Malcolm Vasey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
comebackkings Posted January 12, 2011 Report Share Posted January 12, 2011 There are only 50 odd posters who regularly post on PP, and most polls are answered by 60 to 70 its only a small minority of the actual crowd at Stoke. However, if Stoke don't set the NL on fire from the very start and the promotion do not improve the presentation of the product there will continue to be a decline in numbers. There are a number of fans that will continue to go on a Saturday night,mainly just to see what the racing will be like. If there are still generator problems, constant tractor racing, sun breaks followed by intervals meaning 4 hour meetings, poor public relations and the product is not up to standard, then Big Lad will be correct and the speedway crowd will decline. This season is a big one for Stoke, mainly for the promotion to mend a few bridges with their PAYING CUSTOMERS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldy Posted January 13, 2011 Report Share Posted January 13, 2011 That's the same six or seven Stoke "supporters" repeating their intentions ad nauseum. Malcolm Vasey I used to look in often on the Potters site and occasionally post but the "6 or 7" you speak about have just turned me off as they spend out loads of garbage that is of no interest at all of support or improving the product and in the early days I commented; nobody wanted to play; prehaps my views are as boring and tedious as theirs. Not been on the site in a couple of months now. Do they want speedway or not; lets get behind whoever pulls on a Potters race jacket and give everybody a chance. The tractor racing and other things did spoil it for me and I did walkout early a few times last year but I'm sure all in power at Stoke realise where they need to improve. LETS GIVE THE POTTERS A CHANCE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.