7oakseagle Posted November 9, 2010 Report Share Posted November 9, 2010 The EL can ill afford to lose more teams to the PL. I am wondering if some behind the scenes bargaining is going on to help keep Ipswich in the EL. The teams who are destined to remian in the top flight need other teams to fill up the fixture list and give a bit of variety. So I am wondering if a deal is being worked on to loan the teams who are struggling to be competitive. Teams like Poole have riders on their books who we are not using and perhaps now id the time to offer these riders on a free loan deal for a season. And what about giving Ipswich a little help with an increased portion of the Sky money? Whilst it might cost the EL clubs initially, keeping the amount of teams up in the EL is paramount. Sorry, but that is a silly idea. I do not want to see Ipswich drop down, the same as I don't want Eastbourne to drop down. Why though do we give Ipswich free loan deals and more Sky cash when, as is entirely likely, there are teams who have lost more money last season than them? What are we suggesting, that we only help those who threaten to leave the Elite League? The real crux of the problem is the selfish, narrow minded approach of some promoters who throw cash at riders to entice them to their club (O.K. to a certain extent if they can afford it) and the blatant average manipulation and downright cheating that caused the Elite League to be a cartel where only a couple of clubs can compete. Everyone has seen this situation coming. How many times have we seen posters on here saying something along the lines of 'if this continues then I hope you enjoy your 5 or 6 team Elite League'? Well, unless something very fundamental changes, here it comes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
essaitch Posted November 9, 2010 Report Share Posted November 9, 2010 By increasing the amount of Sky money to Ipswich for a season. Add to that with Nicholls, KK and King it "should" be a successful team which means more fans through the gate. Success brings in the crowds. Ipswich have a good fanbase which could be great if the team is at the right end of the table. OK, So that gets Ipswich through next season. But what happens the year after? Ipswich are in the same boat, and who else says they want what Ipswich had the year before? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Shovlar Posted November 9, 2010 Report Share Posted November 9, 2010 I didn't say this is what should be done. I said I was just thinking out loud, putting some ideas out there. Remember, if the EL falls below a certain amount of teams, the whole PL/EL is devided up again to even it out. There isn't an "us and them". They are all in it together but we would probably see a very weak EL only slightly stronger than what the PL is now. And we don't want that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7oakseagle Posted November 9, 2010 Report Share Posted November 9, 2010 Unfortunately there are promoters out there who care only about their own club and couldn't give a flying fart about the sport as a whole. As long as these people are running the sport then the Elite League will continue to decline further. There are things that could be done but if they level the playing field too much then certain people will just say no for fear that their own team may not be dominant enough. Sad but true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Shovlar Posted November 9, 2010 Report Share Posted November 9, 2010 Unfortunately there are promoters out there who care only about their own club and couldn't give a flying fart about the sport as a whole. As long as these people are running the sport then the Elite League will continue to decline further. There are things that could be done but if they level the playing field too much then certain people will just say no for fear that their own team may not be dominant enough. Sad but true. I don't believe there's a single promoter in the EL that thinks that. Promoters want to be successful because it is a sport and you want to win. But they are also business people and want their club to make a profit. Without enough clubs in the league there would be empty racedays and that means no money at all. Promoters want to make a profit first and foremost, and then success on track second. We are lucky at Poole in that we have a very successful club who does make a profit and does win trophies. But without opposition we would have neither. But in any sport there are clubs who win a lot and others that win nothing and just make up the numbers. Take Chelsea and Wigan. Wigan fans know they will NEVER win the Premier league but are happy to be in the top flight. Should Chelsea give Drogba to Wigan to even it up a bit? EL teams all have the benefit of starting equal, due to the points limit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazysue Posted November 9, 2010 Report Share Posted November 9, 2010 I'd give it up mate i really would. I keep reading the "everyone i speak to would return if we went Premier league", well most i've spoken to at Foxhall would find something else to do on Thursday nights if the club went Premier League! I would probably still go if we went Prem...the idea of different teams is rather tempting to be honest but it would all depend on how much they were charging for admission. Elite league entrance fees as per this season - I wouldn't go, a price reduction - I probably would. My worry though would be, what if we struggle in the Premier too, especially as other premier teams would have had the jump on us for the decent riders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Druid Posted November 9, 2010 Report Share Posted November 9, 2010 To be honest I do think the Louis's should be keeping the fans more updated with the going on's at the moment whatever they may be, at least letting the fans know the options. What I find hard is some of the ipswich fans will stay away if they drop down a league, well all I can say is shame on you as you really can't be true supporters of your club, you are supposed to stick with them through the thick and thin. For example lets take Football your team gets relagated you don't just stop supporting them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7oakseagle Posted November 9, 2010 Report Share Posted November 9, 2010 (edited) I don't believe there's a single promoter in the EL that thinks that. Promoters want to be successful because it is a sport and you want to win. But they are also business people and want their club to make a profit. Without enough clubs in the league there would be empty racedays and that means no money at all. Promoters want to make a profit first and foremost, and then success on track second. We are lucky at Poole in that we have a very successful club who does make a profit and does win trophies. But without opposition we would have neither. But in any sport there are clubs who win a lot and others that win nothing and just make up the numbers. Take Chelsea and Wigan. Wigan fans know they will NEVER win the Premier league but are happy to be in the top flight. Should Chelsea give Drogba to Wigan to even it up a bit? EL teams all have the benefit of starting equal, due to the points limit. Really? You use Football as an example, why? This is probably the worst comparison you could draw. Football is everything that Speedway is trying to avoid isn't it? Football has got to the stage where only a small minority of clubs have any chance of winning anything. Football clubs are massively in debt and close to going to the wall. Why not use American football as a comparison. This would be nearer the model that Speedway would like to follow surely in as much as they have a system that is designed to give all teams a chance of winning. In American Football over the last six years they have had six different winners with nine different teams making the Superbowl final. So you see it can be done if the will is there. The difference is their sport is not riddled with self-interest like ours. Edited November 9, 2010 by 7oakseagle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovey Posted November 9, 2010 Report Share Posted November 9, 2010 ps what's "Mickthemuppet"s take on this? By the law of averages, the MtM response would be: "What a load of rubbish." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted November 9, 2010 Report Share Posted November 9, 2010 But in any sport there are clubs who win a lot and others that win nothing and just make up the numbers. Take Chelsea and Wigan. Wigan fans know they will NEVER win the Premier league but are happy to be in the top flight. Should Chelsea give Drogba to Wigan to even it up a bit? Unfortunately, you've completely failed to understand that the business in sport is not the same as the business in the real world. Domination is bad for successful teams as well, as eventually their fans ebb away if results are predictable. Yes, some teams are always going to be richer than others, but allowing a complete free-for-all simply generates a spending arms race that eventually puts teams out of business. Virtually no Premier League clubs make money, which is complete contrast to the NFL or MLB. Football only gets away with it because there are so many teams to replace the fallen, and because it has such a profile that there's always some rich mug willing to throw their money away in the name of self-aggrandisation. However, this is simply not a sustainable model for smaller sports, especially speedway. It's ironic that in the most capitalist country in the world, this lesson was learnt early on and mechanisms were put in place to give weaker teams opportunities to strengthen up and help equalise competition. The NFL is the best example of this, and that's why it's so financially successful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted November 9, 2010 Report Share Posted November 9, 2010 Unfortunately, you've completely failed to understand that the business in sport is not the same as the business in the real world. Domination is bad for successful teams as well, as eventually their fans ebb away if results are predictable. Tell me your joking ? What sporting teams have had fans ebb away on the back of being Successful ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ipswich Jules Posted November 9, 2010 Report Share Posted November 9, 2010 By the law of averages, the MtM response would be: "What a load of rubbish." I've recently been victim to that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
21st century heathen Posted November 9, 2010 Report Share Posted November 9, 2010 Totally agree, but it seems the only interfering the other teams are doing is trying to sign Nicholls, King etc for their own benefit. If, for example, Coventry were trying to sign Scott then what's the problem? He's their asset. They were forced to buy him so why should he loaned at a cut price or given away free, especially to the club that forced the sale? If they can meet his wage demands and Ips can't then why shouldn't he ride for his parent club? If another club is trying to sign him and can afford to pay Cov's loan demand and Scott's wage demand then why shouldn't both club and rider seek the best deal for their bank balance? All these constant calls to help the weaker/poorer (call them what you will) clubs are missing a bigger issue. By weakening the product you are damaging the business of the stronger/richer clubs and the weaker/poorer clubs are still no better off. It's a sweeping statement but three years ago Ips, Eastie, and BV were struggling and they still are. All that's happened is that the league has been devalued and I can tell you for a fact that attendances have dropped at Wolves and Coventry (because I go to both virtually every week) and I suspect that Swindon and Poole (from some comments I've read) are not in as good a position as was the case three years ago. (not sure how Lakeside and P'brgh are doing?) Either clubs have got to put the cash up front at the start of the season, build a true Elite League and promote/advertise it properly to try to get more people through the gate or everybody admits defeat and ditches the EL in favour of one big league or perhaps the combined clubs of the EL and PL split in to two equal leagues which are both weaker than the current EL and PL respectively. ------------------------- With regard to the press release/s - Rather foolish in my opinion. All the speculation will do nobody any favours, a fact seemingly recognised but not reconciled by the second statement issued. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornishfisherman Posted November 9, 2010 Report Share Posted November 9, 2010 I think perhaps someone has realised that the Elite League is only as strong as it's weakest link! If Ipswich leave for some reason or close which Premier League team will be persuaded to take their place ? How would Sky react? Is the Sky deal that there should be no fewer than 9 teams in EL ? I think these questions are more relevant than most of those discussed on this forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iNikeAguero Posted November 9, 2010 Report Share Posted November 9, 2010 (edited) Just got a little bit more information on Linus Sundstrom Linus Sundstrom was not given assurances by the Witches that they would participate in the Elite League and Linus was also not given any sort of assurances that the witches would build a competitive side. Edited November 9, 2010 by KingKennethSpeed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Shovlar Posted November 9, 2010 Report Share Posted November 9, 2010 (edited) Riders are not so much worried about a competitive team but more of am I going to get paid! Also, Sundstrom as a reseve would probably get loads of extra rides. I mean, Bjerre has just signed for Peerborrough but they are rarely competitive. Edited November 9, 2010 by Steve Shovlar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badge Posted November 9, 2010 Report Share Posted November 9, 2010 To be honest I do think the Louis's should be keeping the fans more updated with the going on's at the moment whatever they may be, at least letting the fans know the options. TBF Prawn, most fans were expecting an announcement after the promoter's piss up in Bournemouth, that is the time line set by Chris Louis, quite unexpectedly we had an announcement saying that 12 o/c on Friday the Club would be announcing their plans. At the last minute that had to be withdrawn, presumably something changed at the last hour/minute which in turn has now set all us Foxhall fans quivering. How what where and whom. At best we just have to wait and hope that we have a club still in 2011 in whichever league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badge Posted November 9, 2010 Report Share Posted November 9, 2010 Just got a little bit more information on Linus Sundstrom Linus Sundstrom was not given assurances by the Witches that they would participate in the Elite League and Linus was also not given any sort of assurances that the witches would build a competitive side. Lol so does that mean if he signs for Peterboro, it would be his 2nd choice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superguest Posted November 9, 2010 Report Share Posted November 9, 2010 If, for example, Coventry were trying to sign Scott then what's the problem? Becuase Ipswich, need a number 1, Coventry don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Smith Posted November 9, 2010 Report Share Posted November 9, 2010 Becuase Ipswich, need a number 1, Coventry don't. Why don't they. Isn't there talk about Harris not staying if Coventry move their race night to Friday because of GP pratice???? In which case, Coventry need to keep their options open Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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