Top 20 Brits Of The 80s

[TonyMac]

Thanks chaps for your interesting debate and exhaustive but informative research which has made for good debate. A couple of points though:

 

1. Tend to agree with Falcace that the importance of the long-track should not be overblown. Many would argue, quite validly, that the emphasis here was on speed and top machinery, and not skill.

 

2. Rob, as you know I have a lot of time for Michael and Kenny for that matter. But there is a school of thought that they were both the architects of their own (speedway) destruction in the 80s, especially Mike who went off the rails. KC, it could be argued, suffered too many injuries borne out of desperation (especially the one at Ipswich prior to the ’81 World Final).

 

3. While ML’s pass of Bruce in the 80 WF was brilliant, there can surely be no doubt that Mort produced similar feats of amazement week after week at Belle Vue. Home advantage? Not much. Hyde Road was the fairest track in the land.

 

4. I share Rob’s inclination to give added emphasis to what a rider achieved at the highest level, in World Finals when the pressure was really on, and in this respect ML was the man in both 80 and 83 (he would probably have won it had the final not been in Germany). In this respect, Mike of course cannot be compared to Jerzy you know who.

 

5. But there is something quite relevant in what Falcace says about Mort’s consistency year in, year out throughout the whole of the 80s. He remained a constant quality rider, for club and country, well after Mike and Kenny had fallen by the wayside for whatever reason.

 

Let the debate continue!

[fatface]

It is an enjoyable debate. The reason being there is no clear cut candidate. I think we can all agree that Mike Lee's World Final win of 1980 was the greatest performance by any British rider in the decade. That goes without saying - it was outstanding. But thereafter, I would argue that Chris Morton, Kenny Carter, Simon Wigg and Kelvin Tatum all had the better record for the last nine years of the decade. If Mike hadn't gone off the rails and maintained his excellence, then we wouldn't be having this discussion.

 

Rob makes a valid point about Mort's World Final record being poor. For a rider of his ability, it really is. He must cringe whenever he sees it. Nonetheless, he still reached the final more than any other Brit in the 80s, proving he was amongst the best in the world for a sustained period. There's no doubt that the World Championship is the acid test for speedway riders, but it should also not paint the whole picture.

 

Some riders are probably quite flattered by their World Championship record..eg. Finn Thompson, Kelly Moran, Kai Niemi. Other riders records in the World Championships probably provide an unfair reflection of ther standing. Bobby Schwartz is the obvious example. Guys like Shawn Moran and Phil Crump were also real top line performers for a long time, but you wouldn't think so if you just looked at their World Champs record. For me, Mort falls into this bracket too.

 

As a final point on why I believe Mort to be the top British rider of the decade, I think I can confidently say that no British rider scored more points in the British League during the 1980s and no other rider scored more points for England. Indeed, Mort was top scoring for England against USA in test matches in 1980 and he was still doing the same in 1989. No one else gets anywhere near that high level of consistency through the decade.

[lucifer sam]

Some riders are probably quite flattered by their World Championship record..eg. Finn Thompson, Kelly Moran, Kai Niemi. Other riders records in the World Championships probably provide an unfair reflection of ther standing. Bobby Schwartz is the obvious example. Guys like Shawn Moran and Phil Crump were also real top line performers for a long time, but you wouldn't think so if you just looked at their World Champs record. For me, Mort falls into this bracket too.

 

Falcace, I can see what you're saying, although Chris Morton is a bit different from the other riders. Both Shawn Moran & Phil Crump both finished on the World Final rostrum, although it's true that their overall World Final record do not go anywhere near their ability.

 

As for Schwartz, it just shows how mega-tough the American round was in the 1980s that a rider of his quality never reached the final.

 

Chris Morton had plenty of opportunites in World Final, yet he never even got remotely close to the rostrum. It's probably down to his (lack of) gating skills, something it's very, very difficult to get away with in a World Final.

 

Chris Morton clearly was a very talented speedway rider. But he lacks that extra something that seperates an Individual World Champion from the rest of the crowd. Something that Michael Lee had. And therefore I still plump for Lee to be No. 1 rather than Chris Morton.

 

And if you're after consistency, I would point in the direction of Simon Wigg, a top rider for pretty much the whole decade (he spent the first few years of the decade emerging, but then again, so did Peter Collins in the 1970s). Wiggy could match Mort for consistency with the extra bonus that he could find that little bit extra in World Finals. And Wiggy's roll call of success is very, very long - he was a born winner.

 

I agree it's an enjoyable debate, and that there's no clear-cut stand-out name. It's all down to opinion.

 

All the best

Rob

Edited November 3, 2010 by lucifer sam

[fatface]

I think the one thing we can agree on is that we're not going to agree.

 

I'd compare the debate to say one about the best Man Utd player of the last 20 years. Guys like Cantona, Beckham and Ronaldo were all brilliant for them for a short while, but guys like Giggs and Scholes have been top quality for a sustained time. Whoever you choose depends on what floats your boat the most..short-term brilliance or long-term quality. Anyway, now I am talking football, it's probably time to take my leave from the debate!

 

cheers

Chris

[salty]

Interesting debate. Especially to see Rob trying to bolt a statistical analysis onto something which ultimately is quite subjective.

 

So what wins out - the decade long consistency of Mort against the meteoric heights reached by Mike the Bike.

 

Lee was brilliant in 1980, but then had two difficult years before being revitalised by the move down to Poole in 1983. I remember watching him around Wimborne Road that summer and thinking how good it was to see him back to his best. Unfortunately, that was as good as it got as the next couple of seasons were ones of decline for various reasons.

 

Mort on the other hand was at the top throughout the decade but was never able to deliver on World Final night. Ultimately his failure to gate consistently well meant he was never able to have a sniff of the podium.

 

Because of that win in Gothenburg I have to go for Lee as number 1 in the 80's.

 

I would agree largely with Rob's list and order to be honest, so maybe statistics do have their uses.

Edited November 3, 2010 by salty

[TonyMac]

Better start getting the front cover pic out and ready for this next issue.

 

The 'Picture Library' man at Retro Towers is shuffling hesitantly towards a certain Northern club's photo file...

 

... but who will it be?

[WIE-JA]

Better start getting the front cover pic out and ready for this next issue.

 

The 'Picture Library' man at Retro Towers is shuffling hesitantly towards a certain Northern club's photo file...

 

... but who will it be?

Mark Courtney. Fantastic rider-just needed someone to control him

[lucifer sam]

Better start getting the front cover pic out and ready for this next issue.

 

The 'Picture Library' man at Retro Towers is shuffling hesitantly towards a certain Northern club's photo file...

 

... but who will it be?

 

Not Michael Lee or Simon Wigg then.

 

Ah, I've got it....

 

Berwick is a Northern club. Congrats to Rob Grant.

 

Seriously, I'll be very interested to see Mr. Berry's picks and his justification for them. There's several ways you can go in picking the top British rider of the 1980s.

 

All the best

Rob

[salty]

Seriously, I'll be very interested to see Mr. Berry's picks and his justification for them. There's several ways you can go in picking the top British rider of the 1980s.

 

All the best

Rob

In the last issue JB stated (when talking about the top 20 foreigners) "One sparkling season does not give priority over a full decade of solid performances". So there's a clue....

[lucifer sam]

In the last issue JB stated (when talking about the top 20 foreigners) "One sparkling season does not give priority over a full decade of solid performances". So there's a clue....

 

But he then contradicted himself by placing both Bruce Penhall & Hans Nielsen in the 1970s foreign top 10, on the basis on just two and three seasons respectively.

 

Nielsen maybe, as he was a double World Champion by the end of the 1970s (1978 WTC & 1979 World Pairs). But Penhall - I don't think so. And I'm huge Bruce Penhall fan. He peaked from 1980 onwards. I'd put him in the top three foreigners in the 1980s (along with a certain two Danes ), but Penhall shouldn't feature in the top 10 foreigners from the 1970s, not given the other riders at their peaks in the 1970s.

 

All the best

Rob

Edited November 6, 2010 by lucifer sam

[Dexter]

There would be quite a few but one I can remember very well is Simon Wigg. Amazing rider, top class rider. Kelvin Tatum would be another one. Although he never achieved what he was able to due to... not sure what? Anyone?

 

Paul Thorp was a great rider at that time and so was Jeremy Doncaster.

[TonyMac]

 

The 'Picture Library' man at Retro Towers is shuffling hesitantly towards a certain Northern club's photo file...

 

Hang on a minute, I think he's taken a detour south...the suspense is killing me.

[fatface]

Hang on a minute, I think he's taken a detour south...the suspense is killing me.

 

He must need fresh directions Tony.

 

He needs to head towards an Intercontinental Final win, past the BLRC and British Finals wins. Then hang a left at the World Team Cup win, a sharp right at the World Pairs win, past 100 England caps and six World Final appearances, then over nine seasons as one of the British League's top riders. When he gets there, there should be a picture of the only Englishman to captain his club to the British League title in the 1980s. When he sees that, he's there!

[TonyMac]

He must need fresh directions Tony.

 

He needs to head towards an Intercontinental Final win, past the BLRC and British Finals wins. Then hang a left at the World Team Cup win, a sharp right at the World Pairs win, past 100 England caps and six World Final appearances, then over nine seasons as one of the British League's top riders. When he gets there, there should be a picture of the only Englishman to captain his club to the British League title in the 1980s. When he sees that, he's there!

 

Alas, I fear he has gone beyond Manchester and has now reached a final signpost directing him towards either King's Lynn or Poole!

[lucifer sam]

Alas, I fear he has gone beyond Manchester and has now reached a final signpost directing him towards either King's Lynn or Poole!

 

He's heading in the right direction then.

 

All the best

Rob

[liverpool chad]

He must need fresh directions Tony.

 

He needs to head towards an Intercontinental Final win, past the BLRC and British Finals wins. Then hang a left at the World Team Cup win, a sharp right at the World Pairs win, past 100 England caps and six World Final appearances, then over nine seasons as one of the British League's top riders. When he gets there, there should be a picture of the only Englishman to captain his club to the British League title in the 1980s. When he sees that, he's there!

 

I could be wrong, but wasn't Bernie Leigh Readings skipper when they won the title in 1980?

Got to agree with Chris Morton as Britains best of the eighties, if only for his constant performances throughout the decade!

[fatface]

Alas, I fear he has gone beyond Manchester and has now reached a final signpost directing him towards either King's Lynn or Poole!

Ah well, I would've been (pleasantly) surprised had John Berry ventured North. Does Tony Davey still sneak into the top 20?

 

I look forward to reading it.

[lucifer sam]

Does Tony Davey still sneak into the top 20?

 

I think the poor bloke only lasted for about 6 meetings in the 1980s, so I'm guessing not. I wonder how highly John "Cowboy" Cook will be placed when Mr. Berry does his top 20 foreign riders of the 1980s. Cookie is a legend around our parts, for stuffing his team-mate almost into the fence during the final deciding heat of the 1985 KO Cup Final, and thereby allowing Wiggy and Troy Butler to come through and clinch the cup for Oxford.

 

All the best

Rob

Edited November 12, 2010 by lucifer sam

[DukesGreg]

I think the poor bloke only lasted for about 6 meetings in the 1980s, so I'm guessing not. I wonder how highly John "Cowboy" Cook will be placed when Mr. Berry does his top 20 foreign riders of the 1980s. Cookie is a legend around our parts, for stuffing his team-mate almost into the fence during the final deciding heat of the 1985 KO Cup Final, and thereby allowing Wiggy and Troy Butler to come through and clinch the cup for Oxford.

 

All the best

Rob

 

 

Ahhhhh John Cook. Remember him from the 16-Lap-Classics.. always led the field in them. Great rider who rode with a smile, and was a top notch jet-ski racer as well if memory serves me right. But I'm wandering off-topic here.. I need a list of 20 riders!!

[DukesGreg]

Well.. after a long hard think, here's my list which I consider to be the top-20 from the 80's.

 

Riders who were probably a lot better in the 70's would have gained their merits in that decade.. I've tried to be fair, not putting Kenny Carter top was difficult for a Duke, but I've tried to factor everything in.

 

 

1) Michael Lee. Won the crown in 1980, and showed me the greatest evening's speedway running up to Norden in 1983, when he smashed the Halifax track record by a full 0.9 of second. Two British Championships in the 70's, but won the World Crown in the 80's, on the 'one off' nerve takes all format. Superb rider.

 

2) Kenny Carter. Unfulfilled latent talent. Probably didn't crash half as much as Chris Harris does in a month , but always ended up breaking something. Air fences and safer speedway would have helped his cause back in the day. BLRC, Northern Riders, 2 British Titles.. and one which I always found to be the best field in the day.. 2 Golden Hammer wins at Dudley Wood. Wore the England bib with ridiculous pride, in an era when half of the Brits (tragically) supported and cheered on the Yanks.

 

3) Dave Jessup. Robbed of a World Title when a 50p jubilee clip broke in said meeting. What a way to be denied the sports greatest prize. Great rider, and ambassador.

 

4) Simon Wigg. Massive talent, and a tragic passing at such a young age.

 

5) Chris Morton. Him and PC, great riders, PC more prominent in the previous decade. However, both a credit to club and country.

 

5) Peter Collins. Still a force to be reckoned with.. never the same after going to Germany, at a time when the British League was the place you needed to race to be on top of your game. Legend.

 

6) Les Collins. Underrated in my opinion. A BLRC under his belt, won the Intercontinental Final in 1982 before the Carter/Penhall clash in 1982.. and if that race had continued.. could possibly have ended up as World Champion. Everyone forgets Peter Collins was leading the race and doing the business for Les.. who knows how it would have panned out. Carter excluded.. Penhall back in the re-run.. history altered in a blink.

 

7) Kelvin Tatum. Steady away rider, consistent to the end. Very good.

 

8) Alan Grahame. Part of THAT Cradley side that mesmerised. Unsung hero.

 

9) Phil Collins. See above.. and Overseas Champion too. Very good rider.

 

10) Andy Grahame. British Champ and a never say die rider too.

 

 

I'll put my second ten up later.