Top 20 Brits Of The 80s

[ciderman]

Aye, but it were National League!

 

With all due respect to Stevie and his supreme efforts for the Tigers over yonks, can't see any NL stars sneaking in to this list.

 

 

You can rule out any second division riders. How can any competing in the second tier, racing against second tier opposition, possibly be considered for a place in the Top 20 Brits of the 80s?

Strange then that in his monthly column in Backtrack magazine, of all the riders that he had ridden with and against that Bruce Penhall remembered riding against and getting beat by no other than the classy Steve Lawson. In Penhalls words, ''Being World Champion doesn't mean you won't be beaten often and sometimes when it's largely unexpected by the neutrals. This is something I can attest to. You're up there to be shot down, as I found out to my cost at Glasgow when we were there in an Inter League challenge.Their No 1 Steve Lawson beat me fair and square and they were really going for it. I can't say i remember anything about Blantyre Stadium but I sure do remember Steve beating me!!! -- From one class rider to another-- Can't get a much better accolade than that.

 

Just because Lawson didn't want to grace the First Division, shouldn't detract from him being recognised as one of the best British riders of the 80's. Indeed a similar thing was said about a certain Mr Carl Stonehewer, who had no ambition, yet graced the GP Series. Don't delude yourself that all the best riders were in the First Division!!

 

 

Given the choice of a role model for my children, Mr Lawson would figure highly up my list and he certainly served British Speedway well in the 80's, my choice of top 20 British Riders would be based on other things apart from how well they done in European or World Events. There were some loyal club riders during the 80's. My list shall follow in due course.

[kaiser]

I dont really understand how anyone can consider any second division riders for this list.For the recond what was Mr Lawsons record in British finals?? Now im sure he was a very good NL rider, but lets be honest he wasnt in the same league as riders like Carter/Morton and Wigg. To be considered one of the best, surely you need to be competing week in week out against the very best in your chosen field. If anything it shows a lack of ambition from certain riders, who were happy to pick up easy pickings season after season, instead of having ago against the big boys in the BL.

[lucifer sam]

anyone other than Aces fans going to submit their lists? otherwise, i reckon we'll just agree that Chris Morton is number one.

slightly off topic, but does anyone know of a site which lists British League averages for the 80s (or other years as well)?

 

I'm after a quick summary of the 1980s 9.00+ BL averages as well, but they don't seem to be readily avaiable in one location. I guess I'll have to plough through the Speedway Stars and post them here.

 

And personally, I can't see how Chris Morton can No. 1. He never finished above eighth in a World Final. He was a very good rider, but not quite there at the very, very top level (i.e. Individual World Finals). I've got 20 names (which I will change around after studying the averages), but I've got a firm idea who my Nos 1 & 2 will be - and they will be winners, not eighth placed riders. The No. 1 has to be a World Champion, not nearly men such as Carter and Morton.

 

All the best

Rob

Edited October 29, 2010 by lucifer sam

[frenchy]

I'm after a quick summary of the 1980s 9.00+ BL averages as well, but they don't seem to be readily avaiable in one location. I guess I'll have to plough through the Speedway Stars and post them here.

 

And personally, I can't see how Chris Morton can No. 1. He never finished above eighth in a World Final. He was a very good rider, but not quite there at the very, very top level (i.e. Individual World Finals). I've got 20 names (which I will change around after studying the averages), but I've got a firm idea who my Nos 1 & 2 will be - and they will be winners, not eighth placed riders. The No. 1 has to be a World Champion, not nearly men such as Carter and Morton.

 

All the best

Rob

 

Try the Complete History of the British League 65-90, it'll be easier to go through than 10 years of Stars !

 

From what I remember Mort was by far and away the most consistant British performer in the top flight over this period & don't forget that he was a World Champ just in the Pairs/Fours and not solo.

[liverpool chad]

Strange then that in his monthly column in Backtrack magazine, of all the riders that he had ridden with and against that Bruce Penhall remembered riding against and getting beat by no other than the classy Steve Lawson. In Penhalls words, ''Being World Champion doesn't mean you won't be beaten often and sometimes when it's largely unexpected by the neutrals. This is something I can attest to. You're up there to be shot down, as I found out to my cost at Glasgow when we were there in an Inter League challenge.Their No 1 Steve Lawson beat me fair and square and they were really going for it. I can't say i remember anything about Blantyre Stadium but I sure do remember Steve beating me!!! -- From one class rider to another-- Can't get a much better accolade than that.

 

Just because Lawson didn't want to grace the First Division, shouldn't detract from him being recognised as one of the best British riders of the 80's. Indeed a similar thing was said about a certain Mr Carl Stonehewer, who had no ambition, yet graced the GP Series. Don't delude yourself that all the best riders were in the First Division!!

 

 

Given the choice of a role model for my children, Mr Lawson would figure highly up my list and he certainly served British Speedway well in the 80's, my choice of top 20 British Riders would be based on other things apart from how well they done in European or World Events. There were some loyal club riders during the 80's. My list shall follow in due course.

 

I saw Steve Lawson ride FOR Cradley Heath in the 1980 KO Cup final at Belle Vue. The boy scored 1 point and he looked a little out of his depth from memory. I personally am struggling to pick 10 top brits from the 80's if i'm honest! The standard of rider we were producing at the time was very poor compared to the 1970's ( Carter, Wigg, Morton, Les & Peter Collins excluded) But i would not stoop to the depths of the second tier of british speedway just to try and fill my list up let alone put a rider high up the list who spent all his career pottering about for easy pickings in the second division.

The new national league was set up to help young british riders start their competitive apprenticeship and then move up to the british league to further their careers. IMO the likes of Steve Lawson milked the fact that he was scoring points at that level and had no ambition to take the step up to mix it week in week out with the big boys! Thats some role model, someone who stays an apprentice all his career!

[salty]

Bit harsh on Steve Lawson. As far as I recall he ran the family farm and wasn't a full time Speedway rider, so one can't really blame him for staying as a big fish in the National League. I remember him riding for Cradley in late 70's/early 80's and I reckon he would have made a good BL rider if he'd been able to commit the resources needed to be competitive at that level.

Having defended him, I have to agree that he is nowhere near the top 20 of the decade.

 

As for the top 20, interesting that there is more debate than the 70's list. Haven't quite got round to posting my full list yet, but no surprises in the names. It's just sorting out the order that is proving difficult.

[lucifer sam]

Try the Complete History of the British League 65-90, it'll be easier to go through than 10 years of Stars !

 

From what I remember Mort was by far and away the most consistant British performer in the top flight over this period & don't forget that he was a World Champ just in the Pairs/Fours and not solo.

 

I looked through the Complete History of the British League, but the averages are team-by-team, rather than a summary of the top averages. I'm still going to go through the Stars, all I need is one from the end of each October.

 

And sorry, but IMHO the No. 1 Brit has to be an individual World Champion - a rider who never finished above eighth doesn't cut it for me. The No. 1 has to be a winner, not an World Final also-ran.

 

All the best

Rob

[salty]

And sorry, but IMHO the No. 1 Brit has to be an individual World Champion - a rider who never finished above eighth doesn't cut it for me. The No. 1 has to be a winner, not an World Final also-ran.

 

All the best

Rob

That should narrow it down to a shortlist of one for the 1980's then.

[lucifer sam]

It didn't take too long in the end (well, apart from 1983, when the Speedway Star didn't publish a final set of BL averages and I had to work out the final Halifax & Cradley averages myself!).

 

The below averages are from British League matches ONLY. I've listed down to 9.00 for 1980-1987, and down to 8.00 for 1988 & 1989 (as the top averages came down, due to the introduction of both fixed gate positions and a nominated heat).

 

British riders in BOLD.

 

1980:

PETER COLLINS 10.70

Hans Nielsen 10.70

DAVE JESSUP 10.52

Bo Petersen 10.46

Bruce Penhall 10.35

MICHAEL LEE 10.17

CHRIS MORTON 10.11

Jan Andersson 10.08

Scott Autrey 9.97

Bobby Schwartz 9.95

Ole Olsen 9.70

JOHN DAVIS 9.54

GORDON KENNETT 9.50

Dennis Sigalos 9.41

Phil Crump 9.41

MALCOLM SIMMONS 9.40

KEVIN JOLLY 9.18

Larry Ross 9.12

Richard Hellsen 9.22

Ron Preston 9.09

 

1981:

Bruce Penhall 11.08

KENNY CARTER 10.50

Phil Crump 10.39

MICHAEL LEE 10.34

Erik Gundersen 10.26

CHRIS MORTON 10.26

Jan Andersson 10.02

GORDON KENNETT 9.95

Kelly Moran 9.83

Hans Nielsen 9.83

Bo Petersen 9.81

DAVE JESSUP 9.59

JOHN DAVIS 9.34

Tommy Knudsen 9.27

ALAN GRAHAME 9.26

Ole Olsen 9.12

Bobby Schwartz 9.09

Larry Ross 9.06

 

1982:

KENNY CARTER 11.05

Erik Gundersen 10.72

Hans Nielsen 10.49

Bruce Penhall 10.39

Dennis Sigalos 10.21

Bobby Schwartz 10.11

CHRIS MORTON 9.98

Kelly Moran 9.97

Billy Sanders 9.93

Shawn Moran 9.88

Ron Preston 9.87

Jan Andersson 9.78

GORDON KENNETT 9.62

Larry Ross 9.59

ALAN GRAHAME 9.49

Phil Crump 9.44

MICHAEL LEE 9.42

Tommy Knudsen 9.17

PETER COLLINS 9.10

LES COLLINS 9.07

 

1983:

Dennis Sigalos 10.99

Hans Nielsen 10.77

Erik Gundersen 10.59

MICHAEL LEE 10.43

Mitch Shirra 10.38

KENNY CARTER 10.34

Billy Sanders 10.27

CHRIS MORTON 10.17

Phil Crump 9.85

Jan Andersson 9.61

Shawn Moran 9.38

Ole Olsen 9.25

Tommy Knudsen 9.20

PAUL WOODS 9.18

DAVE JESSUP 9.17

SIMON WIGG 9.15

Bobby Schwartz 9.14

Lance King 9.11

 

1984:

Hans Nielsen 10.69

CHRIS MORTON 10.65

Jan Andersson 10.30

Phil Crump 9.94

SIMON WIGG 9.91

Bobby Schwartz 9.73

PETER COLLINS 9.73

Billy Sanders 9.73

Shawn Moran 9.66

John Cook 9.36

Lance King 9.19

Mitch Shirra 9.18

Erik Gundersen 9.16

 

1985:

Hans Nielsen 11.42

Eirk Gundersen 11.11

Tommy Knudsen 10.37

Shawn Moran 10.26

Bobby Schwartz 10.00

SIMON WIGG 9.70

JEREMY DONCASTER 9.60

Jan Andersson 9.57

CHRIS MORTON 9.53

John Cook 9.40

Bo Petersen 9.33

PETER COLLINS 9.08

JOHN DAVIS 9.04

 

1986:

Hans Nielsen 11.83

SIMON WIGG 11.01

Erik Gundersen 10.91

JEREMY DONCASTER 10.19

Shawn Moran 10.14

CHRIS MORTON 9.74

Sam Ermolenko 9.66

John Jorgensen 9.66

Tommy Knudsen 9.57

Jan Andersson 9.46

Bobby Schwartz 9.23

Phil Crump 9.17

 

1987:

Hans Nielsen 11.73

Tommy Knudsen 10.90

KELVIN TATUM 10.42

Erik Gundersen 10.22

Jan O. Pedersen 9.84

JEREMY DONCASTER 9.83

SIMON CROSS 9.77

Jimmy Nilsen 9.73

Mitch Shirra 9.66

Shawn Moran 9.58

Sam Ermolenko 9.47

Per Jonsson 9.35

SIMON WIGG 9.17

Peter Ravn 9.01

 

1988:

Hans Nielsen 11.00

KELVIN TATUM 10.41

Tommy Knudsen 10.23

Erik Gundersen 9.96

Jan O. Pedersen 9.75

Shawn Moran 9.52

Sam Ermolenko 9.32

JEREMY DONCASTER 9.32

Per Jonsson 9.11

CHRIS MORTON 8.98

Jan Andersson 8.96

Kelly Moran 8.74

SIMON WIGG 8.66

SIMON CROSS 8.44

GARY HAVELOCK 8.30

Mike Faria 8.21

Mitch Shirra 8.18

 

1989:

Hans Nielsen 10.97

Jan O. Pedersen 10.39

Sam Ermolenko 10.00

Erik Gundersen 10.00

Shawn Moran 9.75

KELVIN TATUM 9.49

SIMON CROSS 9.32

JEREMY DONCASTER 8.51

Jimmy Nilsen 8.33

Ronnie Correy 8.12

Brian Karger 8.05

Kelly Moran 8.00

 

I'm off to reconsider my list. It looks like I need to get Gordon Kennett somewhere in the lower reaches, while Les Collins needs to come down a bit. I'll post my final top 20 later today.

 

All the best

Rob

Edited October 31, 2010 by lucifer sam

[lucifer sam]

British World Champions (plus European Under-21 Champions) during the 1980s:

 

1980

World Champion - Michael Lee

World Pairs Champions - Dave Jessup & Peter Collins

World Team Cup Champions - Michael Lee, Chris Morton, Peter Collins & Dave Jessup (John Davis - non-riding reserve)

 

1981

World Longtrack Champion - Michael Lee

 

1983

World Pairs Champions - Kenny Carter and Peter Collins

 

1984

World Pairs Champions - Chris Morton and Peter Collins

(European Under-21 Champion - Marvyn Cox)

 

1985

World Longtrack Champion - Simon Wigg

 

1987

(European Under-21 Champion - Gary Havelock)

 

1989

World Team Cup Champions - Jeremy Doncaster, Kelvin Tatum, Simon Wigg, Paul Thorp and Simon Cross

World Longrack Champion - Simon Wigg

 

TOTALS:

Peter Collins 4

Michael Lee 3

Simon Wigg 3

Dave Jessup 2

Chris Morton 2

Kenny Carter 1

Kelvin Tatum 1

Jeremy Doncaster 1

Paul Thorp 1

Simon Cross 1

John Davis 1

(Plus Marvyn Cox & Gary Havelock as European U21 Champions)

 

 

British Individual World Finalists in the 1980s:

 

1980: 1 MICHAEL LEE 14, 2 Dave Jessup 12, 6 John Davis 9, 8 Chris Morton 8, 9 Peter Collins 8.

1981: 5 Kenny Carter 11, 8 Dave Jessup 7, 10 Michael Lee 5, 11 Chris Morton 5.

1982: 2 Les Collins 13, 5 Kenny Carter 10, 6 Dave Jessup 8, 13 Peter Collins 5, Andy Grahame DNR (res).

1983: 3 Michael Lee 11, 5 Kenny Carter 10, 10 Chris Morton 7, 13 Phil Collins 4.

1984: 6 Simon Wigg 9, 11 Alan Grahame 5 (res).

1985: 8 Kelvin Tatum 8, Phil Collins DNR (res).

1986: 3 Kelvin Tatum 12, 8 Chris Morton 8, 9 Neil Evitts 8, 12 Marvyn Cox 3.

1987: 6 Jeremy Doncaster 20, 11 Simon Cross 10, 13 Chris Morton 9.

1988: 6 Simon WIgg 9, 8 Kelvin Tatum 8, 10 Chris Morton 6, 12 John Davis 3, Simon Cross DNR (rest).

1989: 2 Simon Wigg 12, 3 Jeremy Doncaster 12, 5 Kelvin Tatum 10, 7 Andy Smith 10.

 

 

All the best

Rob

Edited October 31, 2010 by lucifer sam

[ladyluck]

So here is my top 20:

 

1. Simon Wigg

A great ambassador for the sport, World No.2 in 89, twice British Champion, sole World Finalist in 84, a solid England performer throughout.

 

A great ambassador for the sport? Yes, I know his life was cut tragically short and that he was a fun sort of guy, but let's not forget the circumstances behind that 1984 world final appearance. Where was he in the world championship of 1985? Nowhere. He was banned.

[kaiser]

Look at Nielsens average in 86!!!Blimmey the guy must have hardly dropped a point all season!!! No wonder i used to boo him, just shows what a class act he was, top of the averages virtually throughout the decade, even in 1980 when he must have only been about 12

[lucifer sam]

Look at Nielsens average in 86!!!Blimmey the guy must have hardly dropped a point all season!!! No wonder i used to boo him, just shows what a class act he was, top of the averages virtually throughout the decade, even in 1980 when he must have only been about 12

 

The 11.83 figure is from BL matches only i.e. the second half of the season in 1986 (he averaged 12.00 away from home!!! ), . For 1985-1987, the League Cup took up the first half of the season and the British League the second, but to be consistent, I've used British League matches only throughout the decade.

 

Nielsen's 11.83 is the best league average recorded in British Speedway (qualification: six matches).

 

For interest, Nielsen's average from all offical meetings for Oxford in 1986 was a still pretty staggering 11.57, with 31 maximums from 45 official meetings.

 

All the best

Rob

Edited October 31, 2010 by lucifer sam

[kaiser]

Cheers for info Rob, the guy was sure consistant. Plus it was in a very competitive league full of geniuine world class riders, unlike the current watered down EL!!!I was shocked with Kev Jollys average in 1980, as i only really remember him at Peterborough in the mid 80s as a NL heat leader(man he was hard in them 4tt finals!!!).

[lucifer sam]

Cheers for info Rob, the guy was sure consistant. Plus it was in a very competitive league full of geniuine world class riders, unlike the current watered down EL!!!I was shocked with Kev Jollys average in 1980, as i only really remember him at Peterborough in the mid 80s as a NL heat leader(man he was hard in them 4tt finals!!!).

 

Kevin Jolly's 1980 BL average was from 9 meetings before he was injured. He's open to debate whether he could have kept that up for a whole season, but this name is listed in the averages in the 1981 Yearbook.

 

All the best

Rob

[lucifer sam]

The point system for calculating my top 20 is as follows:

 

World Final: 1st 25pts, 2nd 10pts, 3rd, 5pts, Finalist (including reserves) 1pt.

 

British Final/BLRC/ICF: 1st 3pts, 2nd 2pts, 3rd 1pt.

Winner of other Internationl Rounds Of World Championship (Commonwealth, Overseas): 2pts.

 

World Longtrack Champion: 5pts.

World Pairs Champion: 3pts.

World Team Cup Champion: 2pts (just 1pt for Cross in 1989 and none for non-riding Davis in 1980).

Euro U21 Champion: 2pts.

 

Top British rider in BL averages: 3pts (5pts if top rider overall in averages).

Second British rider in BL averages: 2pts.

Other riders with BL average in excess of 9.00 (8.00 in 1988 & 1989, due to intro of fixed gates and nominated race): 1pt.

 

British League Champions: 1pt for each rider in team (Qualification: 6 matches).

KO Cup Winners: 1pt for each rider in team (Qualification: 1 leg of final - excluding guests) (NB both Oxford & Cradley riders to get a point in 1986).

 

 

And this is the resultant list:

 

1. Michael Lee (53 pts) - 1980 World Champion, 1981 World Longtrack Champion, and also maybe the best rider in the world in 1983. Yes, he didn't last the whole of the decade, but he was capable of taking on and beating the best in an individual World Final (he made it look easy at Gothenburg in 1980), and there wasn't another British rider from the decade who could do that.

2. Simon Wigg (53 pts) - won no fewer than four British League titles during the decade. Twice British Champion (1998 & 1989) and World No.2 in 1989. Also an impressive all-rounder, who won the first two of five World Longtrack titles during the 1980s.

3. Chris Morton (38 pts) - there or thereabouts for the whole decade. Won the BLRC (1984), British Final (1983), World Pairs (1984), World Team Cup (1980) and Inter-Continental Final (1980), as well as leading Belle Vue to various honours. But never finished above eighth in an individual World Final.

4. Kelvin Tatum (36 pts) - something of a gater, but that didn't stop him racking up an impressive list of honours both individually and with Coventry in the closing years of the decade.

5. Kenny Carter (33 pts) - a huge talent, shown by a couple of wins apiece in the BLRC and British Final. However, he shone only rarely on the world stage and won only one World title (the 1983 World Pairs with Peter Collins).

6. Dave Jessup (31 pts) - had an incredible year in 1980, totting up the honours, and won the Overseas Final twice in 1981 & 1982.

7. Peter Collins (24 pts) - was arguably never the same after an injury at the end of the 1980 season, but still won more World titles (three Pairs and one WTC) than any other British rider in the 1980s.

8. Jeremy Doncaster (22 pts) - star of the 1989 World Team Cup winning side and also World No. 3 that year. Consistent at league level.

9. Les Collins (17 pts) - won the BLRC in 1980, Inter-Continental Final in 1982 and World No. 2 in 1982.

10. Simon Cross (13 pts) - 1988 Overseas Champion and nearly (alongside Tatum) upset the Danish applecart at the 1988 World Pairs.

11. Alan Grahame (13 pts) - along with Phil Collins, formed the "engine room" of the Cradley side that won so many honours during the 1980s. Also won a personal battle against Hodkinson's disease during the decade.

12. Phil Collins (13 pts) - 1983 Overseas Champion, a stalwart of the successful Cradley Heathens, and a battler on the track.

13. Andy Grahame (12 pts) - 1982 British Champion and also on the rostrum in 1983 & 1984, also won three league titles with Oxford.

14. Marvyn Cox (8 pts) - 1984 European Under-21 champion, and helped Oxford to three BL championships. Capable of passing any rider from behind.

15. John Davis (8 pts) - British No. 2 in 1985 and a World Finalist in 1980 & 1988.

16. Neil Evitts (6 pts) - 1986 British Champion and also a World Finalist that year.

17. Gordon Kennett (3 pts) - still a real force in the British League in the early eighties, with a near 10.00 average in 1981.

18. Steve Bastable (3 pts) - shock winner of the 1981 British Final.

19. Gary Havelock (3 pts) - 1987 European Under-21 Champion.

20. Paul Thorp (2 pts) - nearly reached the World Final as a National League rider in 1986, and part of the 1989 World Team Cup winning side. A very effective force around the old Belle Vue Hyde Road track.

 

All the best

Rob

Edited October 31, 2010 by lucifer sam

[fatface]

Interesting formula. One that I suspect weighs heavily in favour of your own opinions, but interesting nonetheless. In particular, I have a bit of an objection to the WLT being held in such high regard. It is a similar, but ultimately different sport with different skills required. It's also an event that really ebbed away in its importance. For someone like Simon Wigg and the top Germans, it was a huge priority event. But for pretty much every other top speedway rider of the 1980s and beyond, it was at best a bonus and at worst an irrelevance.

 

In my book it should play no role in determining the standing of speedway riders. Guys like Trevor Banks and Steve Schofield were top long-trackers/grass-trackers, probably better than say Hans Nielsen and Sam Ermolenko. As speedway riders? Not even in the same league. I wouldn't even attempt to produce an exact formula, it simply comes down to an opinion that you can back with a valid argument.

 

I have no great quarrel with anyone who would say that at their best Mike Lee and Kenny Carter (in the 80s) were better speedway riders than Chris Morton at his best. I think that can probably be justified. But for an overall contribution across the decade, I'd have to stick with Mort. Put yourself in the position of a team manager or promoter at the start of the 1980s, you can pick any British rider to represent your club for the whole of the decade. If you chose Mort, then you'd have to say, you made the right choice.

[lucifer sam]

Interesting formula. One that I suspect weighs heavily in favour of your own opinions, but interesting nonetheless. In particular, I have a bit of an objection to the WLT being held in such high regard. It is a similar, but ultimately different sport with different skills required. It's also an event that really ebbed away in its importance. For someone like Simon Wigg and the top Germans, it was a huge priority event. But for pretty much every other top speedway rider of the 1980s and beyond, it was at best a bonus and at worst an irrelevance.

 

In my book it should play no role in determining the standing of speedway riders. Guys like Trevor Banks and Steve Schofield were top long-trackers/grass-trackers, probably better than say Hans Nielsen and Sam Ermolenko. As speedway riders? Not even in the same league. I wouldn't even attempt to produce an exact formula, it simply comes down to an opinion that you can back with a valid argument.

 

I have no great quarrel with anyone who would say that at their best Mike Lee and Kenny Carter (in the 80s) were better speedway riders than Chris Morton at his best. I think that can probably be justified. But for an overall contribution across the decade, I'd have to stick with Mort. Put yourself in the position of a team manager or promoter at the start of the 1980s, you can pick any British rider to represent your club for the whole of the decade. If you chose Mort, then you'd have to say, you made the right choice.

 

Falcace,

 

I think the World Longtrack Championship remained an important event throughout the eighties - it was only in the nineties that its importance faded as top riders elected to ride in the emerging Polish league in preference to spending Sundays in Germany for the big Longtrack events.

 

Just look at the roll of honour for the 1980s:

1980 - Karl Maier

1981 - Michael Lee

1982 - Karl Maier

1983 - Shawn Moran

1984 - Erik Gundersen

1985 - Simon Wigg

1986 - Erik Gundersen

1987 - Karl Maier

1988 - Karl Maier

1989 - Simon Wigg

 

Two World Champions and two World No. 2's in that list. Add in names such of Ivan Mauger, Hans Nielsen, Peter Collins and Egon Muller, and it's plain to see that the cream of the crop rode in the World Longtrack during the 1980s.

 

The weighting of the various World Championship evetns was down to the number of riders in each championship. The Longtrack is in an individual so was 5 points, the Pairs is 3 points apiece (i.e. a total of 6), the World Team Cup is four or five riders (i.e. 8 to 10 points). I actually regard the World Team Cup as the second most important competition, but an individual has less less of an input, hence the points being shared amongst the riders.

 

I was amazed how close the list came out to the top 20 I had written down beforehand (the top three are in the same order, Tatum & Carter simply swapped positions, as did Jessup & Collins). No doubt I was subconsciously thinking about it, as I worked out the points system - I knew what I wanted to reward. It's the same with any devised way of working out such a list.

 

All the best

Rob

[fatface]

So, if we do take the World Long Track seriously then Karl Maier was one of the very best speedway riders of the 80s? Sorry Rob, I simply can't go along with that. It was an event of some standing at one time, probably more so in the 70s when the real top dogs Olsen, Mauger, PC and Michanek all gave it a real go. But in the 80s Penhall, Carter, Nielsen, Ermolenko, Sigalos, Knudsen, Sanders - all bona fide top liners - hardly bothered.

 

But as you quite rightly identify, its standing has altered as time has passed. Similarly with many other events. The World Pairs was a genuine biggie at one time, before it slipped into redundancy. The BLRC/ELRC was also perhaps the second biggest individual event on the calendar at one time..not any more. It's arguable that the World Cup Final has actually increased in standing in modern times. The point I am making is that it is very tricky to implement a formula to precisely measure different riders standings across a number of years based on selected competitions.

 

The world indivdual championship - in whatever guise - is the one which has consistently been of the same standing throughout. Even then, you can interpret it in many different ways for Brits in the 80s..

 

Highest finish - Mike Lee

Most finals - Chris Morton

Best average - Les Collins (1 final), Jeremy Doncaster (2 finals) or Kenny Carter (3 finals)

 

I don't have the precise science by any means..but I'm happy to have the debate

Edited November 2, 2010 by falcace

[lucifer sam]

Falcace, this was my original top 20, that I put together about a week ago, but didn't post because I wanted to look at the BL averages first:

 

1. Michael Lee

2. Simon Wigg

3. Chris Morton

4. Kenny Carter

5. Kelvin Tatum

6. Peter Collins

7. Dave Jessup

8. Les Collins

9. Jeremy Doncaster

10. Simon Cross

11. Marvyn Cox

12. Alan Grahame

13. Phil Collins

14. Andy Grahame

15. Neil Evitts

16. Paul Thorp

17. Andy Smith

18. John Davis

19. Steve Bastable

20. Joe Owen

 

As I said, it's uncannily like the list I then ended up with once I decided to award points. One reason I did this is because I'm not terribly objective when it comes to British riders in the 1980s. Marvyn Cox & Simon Wigg were heroes of mine, whilst I never liked either Carter or Tatum. Whereas I could be objective about the 70s, I can't do likewise in the 80s. So I thought awarding points for what I thought should be rewarded was a better way for me to do it, only to end up with almost exactly the same list again!!!!

 

Personally, for me, Michael Lee has to be the No. 1. Watch a video of his rides in the 1980 World Final and his sensational pass of Bruce Penhall. Was there another British rider during the 1980-1989 period capable of that kind of performance? No.

 

Meanwhile, Chris Morton was admirably consistent (although he never actually topped the BL averages), but the major sticking point is his World Final record. It's just not good enough for him to be considered the best British rider of the 1980s. IMHO the top man has to a winner - at the very, very top level.

 

All the best

Rob

Edited November 2, 2010 by lucifer sam