Pawlicki And His Average Manipulation

[orion]

I know Ford's hardly the person to question the legality of the use of a rule but he may not be totally wrong. The question must be asked as to whether the #8 came about to cover the (authorised) absence of double-uppers who could easily be riding PL matches on the same day without the use of guests or whether the #8 was introduced as a squad rider covering unauthorised absences.

Speedway's unwritten rule is that a 1-7 is declared and that 1-7 should be used whenever possible with the #8 as cover for legitimately missing reserves. Leaving a declared rider out because 'we want to' has always been wrong and I can't actually see anywhere in the rules where that is now acceptable. Although I accept that somebody wishing to can read the rules pertaining to #8's that way, is that what was meant by the rule when it was introduced (in the same way as 6/6 meant 7/5 when Wolves wanted JBJ)?

I don't see Pawlicki missing the Swindon match as a problem because the club tell us he was injured but he did miss an awful lot of matches for no apparent reason prior to that. Were Coventry acting within the spirit of the game/law when they left a declared rider out just so as he didn't get to the twelve match point? Coventry obviously think so but Poole may not.

I don't care whether a team that started a point above every other team in the league or a team that finished nearly half-way down the table are declared champions of this year's EL, but I would question a rider deliberately being pulled out of matches so as not to get an average being used at reserve next year.

 

 

 

 

 

Thou matches that Pawlicki missed were hurting Coventry not helping them ...if not for some crazy results in there favour Coventry would have not reach the play offs and one of the main reasons would have been because Pawlicki had miss thou meetings and we would not be her talking about it now .

 

Sure Pawlicki did miss the swindon match by design thou no rules were broke but as i far as i can see if teams have one there star riders missing half the season then there only hurting themselfs most of the time .

[Steve Shovlar]

Thou matches that Pawlicki missed were hurting Coventry not helping them ...if not for some crazy results in there favour Coventry would have not reach the play offs and one of the main reasons would have been because Pawlicki had miss thou meetings and we would not be her talking about it now .

 

Sure Pawlicki did miss the swindon match by design thou no rules were broke but as i far as i can see if teams have one there star riders missing half the season then there only hurting themselfs most of the time .

 

Teams are obligated to field their strongest teams at all times.

[orion]

Teams are obligated to field their strongest teams at all times.

 

 

Why did King Arthur ride in the final then ?

[Badge]

An interesting column from Matt Ford in last nights Poole program.

 

"Finally, and most importantly, the last thing I want to do is rain on Coventrys celebration parade in 48 hours time at Brandon, but I would like to draw attention to the following important fact.

 

On September 13th, their key reserve Pawlicki was in fine fettle scoring 7 points in Bees semi-final first leg against Peterborough.

 

A week latter he was in the Bees side bagging another 5 rides at Peterborough in the playoff semi-final second leg.

 

However, in between these meetings, Coventry had a league meeting at Swindon on September 16th, a match that would have seen Pawlicki reach 12 meetings for an official average running after 11 meetings at 6.18.

 

This would have seen Pawlicki promoted into the Bees top five for both legs of the Playoff final and also providing his actual average for next year.

 

But here's the thing. Pawlicki suffed an injury preventing him from riding at Swindon. it ruled him unfit to ride at Swindon, but fit enough for the playoff meetings.

 

So he remained on an assessed 4 point average - and was avalable to drip feed the Coventry management to use at reserve for both legs of the final. Pawlicki scored 26 points compared to Sweetmans 6 over 30 heats.

 

Would it have been different had Pawlicki been inthe team with Sweetman at reerve? We will never know. But it would have been nice to have had the oportunity to face Bees in the right riing order.

 

All I know is I have had 5 fellow Elite Legue promoters contact me voicing their concerns over his inclusion at reserve. I'll leave you all to form your own opinions about how we feel over the whole matter."

END.

 

 

My opinion, for what it is worth, is that on writing this, to me, Matt Ford is bringing Speedway into disrepute quite frankly. Had he been whiter than white himself maybe that is one thing, but after last season's shennanigans surely he should know better, ie beaten by a better master .

 

At the very least he should resign from the MC for his written remarks.

 

Mind you, did he realise that one of his most vociferous fans would post it on here....probably.

 

All we neutrals know that the bottom line is......Poole could not sustain their winning ways until the very end.

 

Although Davey Watt is not a favourite of mine, he and Middlo were excellent in defeat and should be commended.

 

It all comes across as very very sour grapes.

[Barney Rabbit]

Teams are obligated to field their strongest teams at all times.

 

I would make that 'declared' rather than strongest. and add 'barring authorised absences'.

 

Why did King Arthur ride in the final then ?

 

 

I would say that, with that one word changed, it makes Steve's point.

Edited October 15, 2010 by Barney Rabbit

[Steve Shovlar]

My opinion, for what it is worth, is that on writing this, to me, Matt Ford is bringing Speedway into disrepute quite frankly. Had he been whiter than white himself maybe that is one thing, but after last season's shennanigans surely he should know better, ie beaten by a better master .

 

At the very least he should resign from the MC for his written remarks.

 

Mind you, did he realise that one of his most vociferous fans would post it on here....probably.

 

All we neutrals know that the bottom line is......Poole could not sustain their winning ways until the very end.

 

Although Davey Watt is not a favourite of mine, he and Middlo were excellent in defeat and should be commended.

 

It all comes across as very very sour grapes.

 

Now reverse the situation.

 

Coventry have finished the league section 26 points in front of Poole. But Matt keeps Madsen out of an away meeting at Ipswich saying he is poorly, meaning he remains at reserve for the final. Madsen has been knocking in double figure scores all over the place and is due to go back into the team in place of Mrozcka. But because he missed this meeting, he remains at reserve. (all hyperthetical of course)

 

Madsen scores well at Brandon and then scores paid 17 at Poole. Pirates win the league from 4th in the league.

 

Let me tell you here and now, the cries of "foul" would be heard loud and clear across this forum, with the Coventry fans moaning and groaning and calling us cheats.

 

And that's exactly what happened, but the other way around.

[Starman2006]

Now reverse the situation.

 

Coventry have finished the league section 26 points in front of Poole. But Matt keeps Madsen out of an away meeting at Ipswich saying he is poorly, meaning he remains at reserve for the final. Madsen has been knocking in double figure scores all over the place and is due to go back into the team in place of Mrozcka. But because he missed this meeting, he remains at reserve. (all hyperthetical of course)

 

Madsen scores well at Brandon and then scores paid 17 at Poole. Pirates win the league from 4th in the league.

 

Let me tell you here and now, the cries of "foul" would be heard loud and clear across this forum, with the Coventry fans moaning and groaning and calling us cheats.

 

And that's exactly what happened, but the other way around.

 

That is very true and spot on.

[Steve Shovlar]

I would make that 'declared' rather than strongest. and add 'barring authorised absences'.

 

By strongest I meant the official team lineup.

 

In Poland teams have turned up at away tracks with no foriegners and get whalloped 65-25. they are saving money knowing they are going nowhere that season. but it brings the sport into disrepute.

 

An EL team has the obligation to field its best possible team at all times. Although using a number 8 to replace a team member is in the rules, if that rider beig replaced is not injured, then the team is below strength and not fulfilling its obligation to the paying public.

 

Otherwise what would there be to stop a team putting out 7 PL 6 pointers just to save money at a track where they knew they couldn't win at?

[bigcatdiary]

Teams are obligated to field their strongest teams at all times.

 

 

Teams are obligated to try as well but they dont always do they !!!!, some have been known to get investigated

[Badge]

Now reverse the situation.

 

Coventry have finished the league section 26 points in front of Poole. But Matt keeps Madsen out of an away meeting at Ipswich saying he is poorly, meaning he remains at reserve for the final. Madsen has been knocking in double figure scores all over the place and is due to go back into the team in place of Mrozcka. But because he missed this meeting, he remains at reserve. (all hyperthetical of course)

 

Madsen scores well at Brandon and then scores paid 17 at Poole. Pirates win the league from 4th in the league.

 

Let me tell you here and now, the cries of "foul" would be heard loud and clear across this forum, with the Coventry fans moaning and groaning and calling us cheats.

 

And that's exactly what happened, but the other way around.

But the point I am making Steve, is that as a promoter and member of the MC, this is not the sort of thing that he should be writing down for the public domain....surely it is libellous , as there is no way that he can prove any of what he has insinuated in that piece.

 

Whilst I appreciate that yours and Poole's adage is any publicity is good publicity, I don't think you or the Poole promotion realise just how much damage they achieved last season, and what you and one or two other Poole fans feel is "jealousy" is in fact that many fans are fed up with promotions abusing the sport. I know that it sickened me last season and possibly still has a residual effect this yearI( and our position in the league has no bearing on this either), quite frankly there is no way that I would trust Matt Ford to agree to anything that would not benefit his club first and speedway second.....and that is a result of last year.

 

So I stand by my firstposting that I feel Matt Ford has brought speedway into disrepute and should resign from the MC forthwith.

[orion]

Now reverse the situation.

 

Coventry have finished the league section 26 points in front of Poole. But Matt keeps Madsen out of an away meeting at Ipswich saying he is poorly, meaning he remains at reserve for the final. Madsen has been knocking in double figure scores all over the place and is due to go back into the team in place of Mrozcka. But because he missed this meeting, he remains at reserve. (all hyperthetical of course)

 

Madsen scores well at Brandon and then scores paid 17 at Poole. Pirates win the league from 4th in the league.

 

Let me tell you here and now, the cries of "foul" would be heard loud and clear across this forum, with the Coventry fans moaning and groaning and calling us cheats.

 

And that's exactly what happened, but the other way around.

 

 

And what would would you have ben saying if this had happened ? how great it was and no rules have been broken ....i doubt you would coming on here calling Matt Ford a cheat

[Steve Shovlar]

But the point I am making Steve, is that as a promoter and member of the MC, this is not the sort of thing that he should be writing down for the public domain....surely it is libellous , as there is no way that he can prove any of what he has insinuated in that piece.

 

Whilst I appreciate that yours and Poole's adage is any publicity is good publicity, I don't think you or the Poole promotion realise just how much damage they achieved last season, and what you and one or two other Poole fans feel is "jealousy" is in fact that many fans are fed up with promotions abusing the sport. I know that it sickened me last season and possibly still has a residual effect this yearI( and our position in the league has no bearing on this either), quite frankly there is no way that I would trust Matt Ford to agree to anything that would not benefit his club first and speedway second.....and that is a result of last year.

 

So I stand by my firstposting that I feel Matt Ford has brought speedway into disrepute and should resign from the MC forthwith.

 

Matt Ford has said nothing in the program notes that many Poole fans were thinking. And he has nly voiced his opinion. He hasn't called Coventry cheats. he just says he will leave it to us (the poole fans) to guess how he feels over the whole matter.

 

So answer me this. If Poole had done what Coventry did this year, coming from 4th to win the title by holding back a rider for a meeting to make sure he was at reserve for the final and keeping him on a 4 point average for next year, would you be saying well done Poole, great tactics and fully deserved?

 

Or you you be berating Poole for more cheating?

 

Answer honestly.

[Steve Shovlar]

And what would would you have ben saying if this had happened ? how great it was and no rules have been broken ....i doubt you would coming on here calling Matt Ford a cheat

 

Would you have said that? Would you be saying well done to Poole, great tactics, and laughing at Coventry for chocking?

[orion]

Matt Ford has said nothing in the program notes that many Poole fans were thinking. And he has nly voiced his opinion. He hasn't called Coventry cheats. he just says he will leave it to us (the poole fans) to guess how he feels over the whole matter.

 

So answer me this. If Poole had done what Coventry did this year, coming from 4th to win the title by holding back a rider for a meeting to make sure he was at reserve for the final and keeping him on a 4 point average for next year, would you be saying well done Poole, great tactics and fully deserved?

 

Or you you be berating Poole for more cheating?

 

Answer honestly.

 

 

And the question still stands what would have you have said if Poole have done that ? we all know the answer would be the opposite to what your saying now so it makes your view pointless .

Edited October 15, 2010 by orion

[KEITH M]

So answer me this. If Poole had done what Coventry did this year, coming from 4th to win the title by holding back a rider for a meeting to make sure he was at reserve for the final and keeping him on a 4 point average for next year, would you be saying well done Poole, great tactics and fully deserved?

 

 

Answer honestly.

Probably not, but YOU would

[Steve Shovlar]

And the question still stands what would have you have said if Poole have done that ? we all know the answer would be the opposite to what your saying now so it makes your view pointless .

 

But they didn't so its impossible to answer. I do know that if we had done exactly what Coventry had done, hell would have broken out on here.

[iris123]

But they didn't so its impossible to answer. I do know that if we had done exactly what Coventry had done, hell would have broken out on here.

Why is it impossible for you to tell us what you would say in that situation,but you can tell us what most others would say?

[BritPete]

This thread is getting more bites than a flea-ridden dog.

[Steve Shovlar]

oK I would say I would be extremely disappointed in winning the league in such a manner and it would be a very hollow victory.

[Steve Shovlar]

This thread is getting more bites than a flea-ridden dog.

 

Actually now all the Coventry lot are not currently on here its more fun.