Bruce Penhall

[waiheke1]

I think Penhall would have won more titles. Not in 83, I don’t think any rider would have beaten Egon that day (though if anyone could , it would have been Bruce- and perhaps there would have been a difference to egon’s psychology if Bruce had been in the field, as it was there was no strong favourite, and egon must have thought “this is mine for the taking.”).

I reckon he’d have won two more in the 80s, with Erik and Hans perhaps winning two apiece. Lee certainly could have won more if his career had stayed on track, Sanders I don’t think would have done, Carter and Sigalos perhaps.

 

That said, I think you have to bear in mind that Nielsen in particular was nowhere near his peak when Penhall and Lee were at their peak - so its not surprising that Penhall had a great head to head record against Nielsen. Penhall (81 version) , Lee (late 70s version), Nielsen (86-89 version) - all great riders, very, very little between them, in my view - but I think you'd have to say Penhall and Nielsen would have a slight edge over Lee, simply for their consistency. At their peaks, I'd take Penhall to beat Hans in a one-off final, Hans to beat Penhall in a GP series.

[cityrebel]

the 1980's were a stange time for international speedway with loads of english fans supporting the yanks or the danes. whatever peoples views on kenny carter at least he was patriotic. as for bruce penhall, his antics at the white city in 1982 were blatant and unprofessional and finished his golden boy image with a lot of fans. i remember the incident like it was yesterday and the boos and the objects being thrown at him made it unforgettable.

[stratton]

I think Penhall would have won more titles. Not in 83, I don’t think any rider would have beaten Egon that day (though if anyone could , it would have been Bruce- and perhaps there would have been a difference to egon’s psychology if Bruce had been in the field, as it was there was no strong favourite, and egon must have thought “this is mine for the taking.”).

I reckon he’d have won two more in the 80s, with Erik and Hans perhaps winning two apiece. Lee certainly could have won more if his career had stayed on track, Sanders I don’t think would have done, Carter and Sigalos perhaps.

 

That said, I think you have to bear in mind that Nielsen in particular was nowhere near his peak when Penhall and Lee were at their peak - so its not surprising that Penhall had a great head to head record against Nielsen. Penhall (81 version) , Lee (late 70s version), Nielsen (86-89 version) - all great riders, very, very little between them, in my view - but I think you'd have to say Penhall and Nielsen would have a slight edge over Lee, simply for their consistency. At their peaks, I'd take Penhall to beat Hans in a one-off final, Hans to beat Penhall in a GP series.

II think you summed things up spot on , i went in 83, and was confident Lee could win it was flying at Halifax the week before murdered Carter in the helmet.But on the day Muller was awesome did feel Sanders should of been tougher when he gated him but we all no Muller was a top class alround motorcyclist.But Lee did cram alot in his career in a short space of time 75to 83 six finals third twice fourth once and a winner a pretty good record i suppose.And to think he was really only 25 when his top class career was finished in 83.Nielsen since he has retired if you study his record he did have a terrific career, the impressive thing the longevity of it.

[Roland]

I think Penhall would have won more titles. Not in 83, I don’t think any rider would have beaten Egon that day (though if anyone could , it would have been Bruce- and perhaps there would have been a difference to egon’s psychology if Bruce had been in the field, as it was there was no strong favourite, and egon must have thought “this is mine for the taking.”).

I reckon he’d have won two more in the 80s, with Erik and Hans perhaps winning two apiece. Lee certainly could have won more if his career had stayed on track, Sanders I don’t think would have done, Carter and Sigalos perhaps.

 

That said, I think you have to bear in mind that Nielsen in particular was nowhere near his peak when Penhall and Lee were at their peak - so its not surprising that Penhall had a great head to head record against Nielsen. Penhall (81 version) , Lee (late 70s version), Nielsen (86-89 version) - all great riders, very, very little between them, in my view - but I think you'd have to say Penhall and Nielsen would have a slight edge over Lee, simply for their consistency. At their peaks, I'd take Penhall to beat Hans in a one-off final, Hans to beat Penhall in a GP series.

Very well made arguments Would have fancied Billy to win overall in the course of a GP complete series. Edited December 16, 2011 by Roland

[fatface]

Very well made arguments Would have fancied Billy to win overall in the course of a GP complete series.

Why? What big meetings did he ever win to prove that line of argument?

Edited December 16, 2011 by falcace

[waiheke1]

the 1980's were a stange time for international speedway with loads of english fans supporting the yanks or the danes. whatever peoples views on kenny carter at least he was patriotic. as for bruce penhall, his antics at the white city in 1982 were blatant and unprofessional and finished his golden boy image with a lot of fans. i remember the incident like it was yesterday and the boos and the objects being thrown at him made it unforgettable.

interesting that you praise Carter for being patriotic, yet condemn Penhall for putting his compatriots first (surely the very definition of partiotism). Can't imagine Carter EVER giving up a title for the benefit of fellow Englishman.

Yes it was blatant, but how often do we criticize our sportspoeple for lack of honesty - he could easliy (and probably should have) just faked an engine failure. I'm not sure he should be criticized for being open about what he was doing (and let's face it, many others have done the same).

 

 

Very well made arguments Would have fancied Billy to win overall in the course of a GP complete series.

Have to disagree to be honest, Billy probably performed above himself in world Finals, but can't think of a year I would actually have expected him to finish on the podium in a GP series. Perhaps 83, but as falcace points out, he didn't win any big individual meetings (though he did almost win the world pairs single handedly for the Aussies).

[oldace]

But he didn't sidney - did he - he decided to shaft Speedway, it's Management and it's Supporters. Unforgivable in my book. He treated the Sport that made him what he was like dirt.

 

A terrific Rider, yes - not sure about the 'man' though.

 

I must admit that I really enjoyed Rod Haynes Articles too.

 

I don't understand that viewpoint really Ian. He didn't want to race anymore, for whatever reason, are you suggesting that a rider must put in a season or two of mediocrity before he is allowed to retire. Okay the way he renaged on the last 2 months of the season didn't do Cradley any favours but I believe Penhall was starting to have thoughts of self preservation, he didn't want to get hurt, and with or without Hollywood I doubt he would have gone on much longer, doubtful he would have done even another season in my view.

 

As for Billy Sanders, Billy was good in 1983 but with Billy desperation had took over by then, lots of riders want to be world champion and channel everything into achieving it but with Billy it went a lot further and I think that desperation was starting to affect him by then, the more he didn't win the worse it got. Desperate men rarely won world finals, cool calculated performance was usually the order of the day, with a bit of luck thrown in