British Sgp Decline

[mickthemuppet]

I have watched every British Grand prix on Sky Sports. This year I was away and watched it on the internet and found a polish programme and an english one (but not Sky channel). This was not available two or three years ago and more and more people are watching speedway on the net. These viewers will not be counted but must be rising every year. There must be a time in the near future when it is not worth paying a Sky sports Subscription especially as mine has now gone up to £47 (which started at £4) Nodody can tell how many people watch a programme, so the figures are completly useless. How many people watched the football live and watched the GP the next day?

[Jeff Scott]

And the second one there was world cup match on you forgot say about that as well amazeing

 

 

If Manchester ute play at 7.30 then the figures will always be bigger than they were playing at 5pm .

 

 

So, let's see, you think that Cardiff - the 'jewel in the crown' of the speedway grand prix - suffered a decline of 104,000 viewers that's caused by the switch to a 5pm start time and then further fall of 79,000 in 2010 was caused by a third place play off in the world cup that kicked off 2 & 1/2 hours after the GP did?

 

The biggest viewing figures for Sky Sports showing Premiership Football usually happen on "Super Sunday" - featuring Chelsea, Man U, Arsenal etc - where kick offs are 1.30 & 4pm

[orion]

So, let's see, you think that Cardiff - the 'jewel in the crown' of the speedway grand prix - suffered a decline of 104,000 viewers that's caused by the switch to a 5pm start time and then further fall of 79,000 in 2010 was caused by a third place play off in the world cup that kicked off 2 & 1/2 hours after the GP did?

 

The biggest viewing figures for Sky Sports showing Premiership Football usually happen on "Super Sunday" - featuring Chelsea, Man U, Arsenal etc - where kick offs are 1.30 & 4pm

 

 

First of all i would that Sunday afternoon would be peak time to watch a football match rather that 5pm on a sat ..i am sure if next week if they started showing football at 5pm on a sat night rather than a sunday afternoon and yet again the figures would dropped by a massive amount .

[Parsloes 1928 nearly]

Nothing in itself, but the language used just makes him seem like a loser who is stuck in the one off world final era. Clearly wants speedway to stay in a world of Wulfsport wearing, badge donning gimps.

 

Hmm, sorry you're way off the mark here..

 

The World Final in fact belongs to the era when Speedway was one of the most major mainstream sports in the UK... Capacity crowds at the UK's greatest stadium, Wembley and coverage on the main TV channels: 1972 World Final from the Empire Stadium shown the night it was staged (yes, the prime-time Saturday night slot) on ITV nationally...

And I'm sure you'll find that not a SINGLE Wulfsport jacket was worn!

 

So I'm afraid, as well being shockingly rude - no-one arguing for the World Final ever has to resort to calling those with a different point of view a "loser" or a "gimp" (sic) - you are just 100% inaccurate...

 

At the end of the day, sport is about excitement, glory, entertainment and the tension of white hot competition...

I can assure you (as I suspect you never experienced it..) that the World Final had ALL those ingredients, I've been to many, many major sporting events: FA Cup Finals, Rugby World Cup Finals, Cycling, Athletics...: I can assure you that no event has ever got close to matching the sheer excitement and occasion of the World Speedway Final.

 

The world - not just the Speedway world - became a less exciting place the day this great and iconic event was taken from us...

 

It was also the day that the sport began its gradual but inevitable slide into insignificance... You will surely disagree but the facts speak for themselves and I can assure you if you can get excited over a mere qualifying round where who wins is of barely any significance (ie Cardiff-staged early round GPs); then if we come to our senses in time to restore the World Final, you would soon find out what real sporting excellence and excitement is all about...

Just leave your Wulfsport anorak at home, eh..!!

[tomcat]

Hmm, sorry you're way off the mark here..

 

The World Final in fact belongs to the era when Speedway was one of the most major mainstream sports in the UK... Capacity crowds at the UK's greatest stadium, Wembley and coverage on the main TV channels: 1972 World Final from the Empire Stadium shown the night it was staged (yes, the prime-time Saturday night slot) on ITV nationally...

And I'm sure you'll find that not a SINGLE Wulfsport jacket was worn!

 

So I'm afraid, as well being shockingly rude - no-one arguing for the World Final ever has to resort to calling those with a different point of view a "loser" or a "gimp" (sic) - you are just 100% inaccurate...

 

At the end of the day, sport is about excitement, glory, entertainment and the tension of white hot competition...

I can assure you (as I suspect you never experienced it..) that the World Final had ALL those ingredients, I've been to many, many major sporting events: FA Cup Finals, Rugby World Cup Finals, Cycling, Athletics...: I can assure you that no event has ever got close to matching the sheer excitement and occasion of the World Speedway Final.

 

The world - not just the Speedway world - became a less exciting place the day this great and iconic event was taken from us...

 

It was also the day that the sport began its gradual but inevitable slide into insignificance... You will surely disagree but the facts speak for themselves and I can assure you if you can get excited over a mere qualifying round where who wins is of barely any significance (ie Cardiff-staged early round GPs); then if we come to our senses in time to restore the World Final, you would soon find out what real sporting excellence and excitement is all about...

Just leave your Wulfsport anorak at home, eh..!!

 

Spot on Parsloes... It also gets my goat, that when we mention the One Off Finals, we always get the Monkey mask and Jap replies.

Its got nothing to do with what was worn or ridden, it was the thrill of a sudden death final, where anyone could win on the day.

I would hazzard a guess, that most of the daft responses of that ilk are from people who have never had the privilege to witness

A speedway World Final, in the mould of Wembley, Ullevi etc, as they were, was something else.

Watching a few highlights on a DvD or a Youtube clip of the odd race just doesn't do the Finals justice.

 

And I agree with you, it seems that our sports decline coincided with the one off finals being dumped in favour of the GP series.

What I also don't get, is this disrespect for fans of yesteryear. Wulfsport jackets and badges... crikey, as kids we would all

have a jumper, coat etc, which would get covered in badges or rosettes of our favourite riders and teams, that was a part of

what speedway was about. I remember finding an old orange jumper, getting some bits of black material, which was cut into strips.

Then they were sewn onto the sleeves of the jumper, voila, one Tiger Louis top, which was worn to every meeting, home and away.

Then when I got my first car, on went the Witches sun strip, with various car stickers being placed in the back window. It was

fun, looking for other fans cars en route to meetings or just travelling about the country.

Thats all gone now, as people just don't seem to be bothered with anything much these days, couple that with the obvious

disrespect being shown and you start to get the reasons why speedway is on the decline.

 

The fun eliment has gone, fans cant be bothered.... or is it that they worry about what people might say?

I'll tell you what, I don't care what non speedway folks think... as and when I get the chance to come across

the water to see another meeting, I'll be proudly wearing my Wulfsport Witches jacket.... so anyone that doesn't

like that can go stick it in their pipe and smoke it...

[mickthemuppet]

Well said Parsloes. Nothing can ever beat the excitement of a World Final at Wembley. Bring back the old individual world Championship

[sheffieldscot]

Very interesting article which I did not find to be anti SGP. Mainly I found it stated the cold hard facts.I have been to 7 Grand Prix's at Cardiff and have thoroughly enjoyed them all as an event and an experience, but I have to be honest and say that the quality of racing has been poor and on a couple of occasions downright dangerous. This year has been an exception and the Grand Prix series has had much better racing than in previous years (Thanks to Tony Olssen. Will I go to Cardiff again - answer - yes. The last 2 years I have been unable to go, but have watched the meetings and this year was much better by far in terms of track preparation.

 

Tv is having a tough time at the moment with "top" shows, such as The Bill coming to an end for one reason or another.Everyone is fighting for viewing figures. Speedway will hopefully continue on Sky for many years to come and hopefully the Grand Prix series will flourish. The old format is gone all be it dramatic and the best man on the night wins. We now have a series where consistency is the key and for me equally as enthralling. Anyway in what ever format it is ran in the future I hope it will always be televised regardless of viewing figures. You can keep Match of the Day, give me Speedway any day

[Sprog1]

Hmm, sorry you're way off the mark here..

 

The World Final in fact belongs to the era when Speedway was one of the most major mainstream sports in the UK... Capacity crowds at the UK's greatest stadium, Wembley and coverage on the main TV channels: 1972 World Final from the Empire Stadium shown the night it was staged (yes, the prime-time Saturday night slot) on ITV nationally...

Speedway Final.

 

The world - not just the Speedway world - became a less exciting place the day this great and iconic event was taken from us...

 

It was also the day that the sport began its gradual but inevitable slide into insignificance... You will surely disagree but the facts speak for themselves and I can assure you if you can get excited over a mere qualifying round where who wins is of barely any significance (ie Cardiff-staged early round GPs); then if we come to our senses in time to restore the World Final, you would soon find out what real sporting excellence and excitement is all about...

Just leave your Wulfsport anorak at home, eh..!!

 

The one off World Final was exciting in its day but that day is now past.

 

You have to consider the much larger geographical area speedway covers now. With more nations wanting a slice of the action you would be lucky to have a World Final staged in this country once every 7 or 8 years , maybe even less than that. Would you be happy with that ? Would Cardiff be interested in staging an event that infrequently with all the equipment that needs to be stored ? I doubt it .

 

Where are the sponsors coming from ? Modern international speedway needs sponsors and sponsors need exposure. 10 or 11 GP's is one thing but sponsors are unlikely to be interested in sponsoring a rider who may well fail to qulalify for a one-off meeting. The qualifying rounds are unlikely to be of interest to the TV companies. The GP Challenge never gets televised so why should the TV companies be interested in televising qualifiers for a one-off World Final ?

 

How are you going to organise the qualifying rounds ? If it was like the old system you will end up with top riders going out in th Danish and Polish rounds but near novices going a long way in the British rounds. We already saw riders like Marvyn Cox going abroad to qualify under the old system because it was easier so these days you are likely to find continetal riders coming over here to geet an easier qualifying route.

 

Then there is the corruption. Apart from things like the Egon Muller fix, there was always a lot of riders buying points to get an easy qulifying route even in the days of the poor pay. so these days it would be rife with so much sponsorship etc turning on it.

 

The one off Finals have had their day. Leave them in the past.

[orion]

Hmm, sorry you're way off the mark here..

 

The World Final in fact belongs to the era when Speedway was one of the most major mainstream sports in the UK... Capacity crowds at the UK's greatest stadium, Wembley and coverage on the main TV channels: 1972 World Final from the Empire Stadium shown the night it was staged (yes, the prime-time Saturday night slot) on ITV nationally...

And I'm sure you'll find that not a SINGLE Wulfsport jacket was worn!

 

So I'm afraid, as well being shockingly rude - no-one arguing for the World Final ever has to resort to calling those with a different point of view a "loser" or a "gimp" (sic) - you are just 100% inaccurate...

 

At the end of the day, sport is about excitement, glory, entertainment and the tension of white hot competition...

I can assure you (as I suspect you never experienced it..) that the World Final had ALL those ingredients, I've been to many, many major sporting events: FA Cup Finals, Rugby World Cup Finals, Cycling, Athletics...: I can assure you that no event has ever got close to matching the sheer excitement and occasion of the World Speedway Final.

 

The world - not just the Speedway world - became a less exciting place the day this great and iconic event was taken from us...

 

It was also the day that the sport began its gradual but inevitable slide into insignificance... You will surely disagree but the facts speak for themselves and I can assure you if you can get excited over a mere qualifying round where who wins is of barely any significance (ie Cardiff-staged early round GPs); then if we come to our senses in time to restore the World Final, you would soon find out what real sporting excellence and excitement is all about...

Just leave your Wulfsport anorak at home, eh..!!

 

 

Tell me where was speedway when we had the last one off world final ? its was dying on it's ass, long gone had Wembley world finals and Tv etc... thou are the facts that speak for themselfs they change it because at the time people were bored stiff by it all .

 

Same old stuff from fans who remember the glory days wanted and thinking that the old stuff will work now ...like the golden helmet, second halfs, test matches etc .

[Trees]

At the end of the day, sport is about excitement, glory, entertainment and the tension of white hot competition...

Owwwwwwwww yes cos every ride counted big time in every qualifier and of course hugely in the final, the tension was massive unlike in the GP series ...........

[Parsloes 1928 nearly]

You have to consider the much larger geographical area speedway covers now. With more nations wanting a slice of the action you would be lucky to have a World Final staged in this country once every 7 or 8 years , maybe even less than that. Would you be happy with that ?

 

There's ANOTHER 'argument' which doesn't hold up in any way!

Tell me, when was the last time the World Championship was decided in the UK..?!

I'll tell you, 1995, when the very first GB Grand Prix was held and Hans Neilsen secured the points he needed to win that first series at the London Stadium in what was that year the final GP.

Every GP at Cardiff has been and is set to continue to be in June/early July and so a million miles away from EVER being possible to seeing the ultimate champ crowned.

So you worry aboiut there only being a World Final in GB once every eight years and yet are apparently happy for there literally NEVER, ever again being a final GP or even a later GP being staged in this country..

 

If you don't mind me saying your argument has kinda collapsed there!!

 

Same old stuff from fans who remember the glory days wanted and thinking that the old stuff will work now ...like the golden helmet, second halfs, test matches etc .

 

Hmm, you might want to use the term "glory days" as an insult but you know what above all signified the "glory days"..? One sh1te lot more poeople paid to go thru' turnstiles to watch the sport than now currently do..

So maybe, just maybe something then was being done right that now, er, isn't..!!

 

If all was rosy in the current state of the world Speedway body politic I'm sure no-one would debate such things, but it ain't!! So we do..

[Trees]

I'd much rather the world championship was a series of qualifiers and maybe the best of 3 final. More riders would be involved starting from scratch every year, every ride would be absolutely crucial. Sounds more exciting to me than the 11 round series we have now.

[Parsloes 1928 nearly]

I'd much rather the world championship was a series of qualifiers and maybe the best of 3 final. More riders would be involved starting from scratch every year, every ride would be absolutely crucial. Sounds more exciting to me than the 11 round series we have now.

 

That I think is a sensible, compromise idea...

[fatface]

The world - not just the Speedway world - became a less exciting place the day this great and iconic event was taken from us...

Indeed. Who will ever forget the grown men crying on the streets after Vojens 94?

 

Some people need a serious reality check. It's all well and good reminiscing about Wembley 72 and the like. The world was a hugely different place. There were only three TV channels, not everyone in the country even had a TV and of those that did, a fair amount were watching black and white. TV finished at around 11pm when we were played "God save the Queen" and then told to get to bed.

 

There were no cinema multi-plexes, no DVDs, not even videos, never mind iPods and iPhones. No internet. There was very little live sport on TV. Indeed, the only live football match to be shown on TV every year would be the FA Cup Final. Hence, there was much greater thirst for live sport...even greyhound racing and county cricket attracted big crowds. The entertainment options in the early 1970s were simply light years behind what we have now.

 

As time passed, the Speedway World Championship as it was had simply not moved with the times and slipped into irrelevance. From 85 onwards, I think only Vojens 88 and 94 actually got any terrestrial coverage and they were one week late in 30 minute BBC Sunday Grandstand highlights packages. The others were hidden away on Eurosport or Screensport, if indeed they were anywhere.

 

I think most people would agree that speedway as a whole has declined in popularity since the 1960s and 1970s - that's a fair point. Some of this is down to the way society has changed, plenty of it is also to do with the way the sport - and in Britain in particular - has managed itself. But I simply cannot accept the decline is down to the loss of "the old World Finals" (and I enjoyed most of five I attended from 83-92). The sport was the lowest ebb it has ever been in the early 1990s. The move to the GP format has given the sport regular presence again in the public eye. Had we not made this move, I simply dread to think where we would be now. My guess would be that Poole and Coventry would have been World Final venues and it would covered exclusively by Re-Run videos.

 

If you really want to convince people then present us with some facts that demonstrate how our World Championship was booming in TV audiences and crowd numbers for those 10-15 years before the GP. Otherwise, all you are doing is rambling on down Memory Lane.

Edited September 3, 2010 by falcace

[orion]

 

 

 

 

Hmm, you might want to use the term "glory days" as an insult but you know what above all signified the "glory days"..? One sh1te lot more poeople paid to go thru' turnstiles to watch the sport than now currently do..

So maybe, just maybe something then was being done right that now, er, isn't..!!

 

If all was rosy in the current state of the world Speedway body politic I'm sure no-one would debate such things, but it ain't!! So we do..

 

The debate is about how people watch the gp's on tv ...tell me how people were watching the one off finals live on tv in the 90's ?

[Parsloes 1928 nearly]

But the GPs (though producing I'll admit, some extremely good racing this year and heading for once for an exciting climax) are far too much of a 'closed shop' to warrant being regarded as a proper World Championship.

 

The number of old men in them is crazy (and yes I am a big Gollob fan so I know that's rich coming from me...) and is at odds with what a vibrant sport should be. At the very least there needs to be a system where a rider at his peak can have a chance at the world title.

 

Look at Hans Andersen a few years back: excluded from the GPs he was perhaps the top rider in the world that year but had no opportunity to challenge for the world title. That's wrong.. In the past, have an exceptional couple of years (like say Simmo in '75 & '76: and yes he was no spring chicken then...) and you have a real chance of winning the world title (Simmo made it to runner-up..). Similar story with late starter John Louis... Or be an incredibly promising teenager , like Ronnie Moore, Peter Collins, Michael Lee and you can see a path ahead for actual world title glory...: not 15 years off like now, but within two or three years...

 

The GP is NOT a good system: it has so many flaws and in particular we're sold short in the UK by having our Round always so early in the series...

I 100% believe that the Olympic Stadium could very easily be secured for a big Speedway meeting after 2012 but do I believe that a GB GP is a big enough event for that..: no In truth I don't.

 

We need to match our ambitions with the product and the GPs let us down. More than that they have let down a lost generation of riders... And will continue to do so unless changes are made..

[WIE-JA]

Parsloes, if you look back to the letters pages in speedway magazines from the '70s and '80s, you'll see lots of people campaigning to have a GP style system introduced. People complained about one day world finals being unfair and predictable and not rewarding riders who were consistant throughout a whole season. So now we have a GP system and people complain about that. Just accept that there isn't going to be a system that pleases everyone. Personally I prefer the GPs although it took a season to convert me.

[fatface]

But the GPs (though producing I'll admit, some extremely good racing this year and heading for once for an exciting climax) are far too much of a 'closed shop' to warrant being regarded as a proper World Championship.

 

The number of old men in them is crazy (and yes I am a big Gollob fan so I know that's rich coming from me...) and is at odds with what a vibrant sport should be. At the very least there needs to be a system where a rider at his peak can have a chance at the world title.

 

Look at Hans Andersen a few years back: excluded from the GPs he was perhaps the top rider in the world that year but had no opportunity to challenge for the world title. That's wrong.. In the past, have an exceptional couple of years (like say Simmo in '75 & '76: and yes he was no spring chicken then...) and you have a real chance of winning the world title (Simmo made it to runner-up..). Similar story with late starter John Louis... Or be an incredibly promising teenager , like Ronnie Moore, Peter Collins, Michael Lee and you can see a path ahead for actual world title glory...: not 15 years off like now, but within two or three years...

 

The GP is NOT a good system: it has so many flaws and in particular we're sold short in the UK by having our Round always so early in the series...

I 100% believe that the Olympic Stadium could very easily be secured for a big Speedway meeting after 2012 but do I believe that a GB GP is a big enough event for that..: no In truth I don't.

 

We need to match our ambitions with the product and the GPs let us down. More than that they have let down a lost generation of riders... And will continue to do so unless changes are made..

Now you're changing tack to avoid the issues you raised. If you can convince us with any evidence that bringing back the old World Finals will increase crowds and attract bigger television audiences in the modern world, then please do it. Saying you 100% believe the Olympic Stadium could hold the World Final is frankly a lame, baseless thought with no grounding in reality. I once 100% believed in Santa Claus.

[orion]

But the GPs (though producing I'll admit, some extremely good racing this year and heading for once for an exciting climax) are far too much of a 'closed shop' to warrant being regarded as a proper World Championship.

 

The number of old men in them is crazy (and yes I am a big Gollob fan so I know that's rich coming from me...) and is at odds with what a vibrant sport should be. At the very least there needs to be a system where a rider at his peak can have a chance at the world title.

 

Look at Hans Andersen a few years back: excluded from the GPs he was perhaps the top rider in the world that year but had no opportunity to challenge for the world title. That's wrong.. In the past, have an exceptional couple of years (like say Simmo in '75 & '76: and yes he was no spring chicken then...) and you have a real chance of winning the world title (Simmo made it to runner-up..). Similar story with late starter John Louis... Or be an incredibly promising teenager , like Ronnie Moore, Peter Collins, Michael Lee and you can see a path ahead for actual world title glory...: not 15 years off like now, but within two or three years...

 

 

 

 

 

LOL this comes from someone who liked the old system that was really fair ,miss one round and you were out , nearly all the world finals because of the stupid system to get there had 6 no hopers in them and a lot of the riders were pay off halfway into the meeting to drop points .

 

Not sure what you point is about having old men in the Gp's the bottom line is that Gollob ,Hancock etc are still good enough to be them ....are you saying they are not in the best 16 riders in the world at this time ?

 

Since the Gp's have come in we have nearly always had the best rider become World Champion unlike before when could get lucky on the night .

[Parsloes 1928 nearly]

Since the Gp's have come in we have nearly always had the best rider become World Champion unlike before when could get lucky on the night .

 

Hmm, it was POSSIBLE that a rider could "get lucky on the night" but actually history shows that in fact that was an extremely rare occasion: actually only ONCE post-war could one say that such a thing happened! In fact the World Championship under the World Final system was extremely consistent at finding the best riders on the rostrum.

Because Speedway is about responding to the massive challenge of each race and each meeting. A true champion shows his mettle in such circumstances..

 

The GP system also produced BTW, a 'World Champion' who throughout a whole season never won a SINGLE WC meeting...! That (by definition!) NEVER happened in the previous system...!!

 

And tell me falcace, why do you consider Speedway at the Olympic Stadium so utterly ridiculous..? If you knew anything about the Olympic authorities' desire for legacy and for maximising use of the main stadium (I actually work for an organisation with day to day contact on these various issues concerning the Olympic Park and surrounding area...) then you wouldn't dismiss this with such ignorant contempt.

 

I can guarantee you if someone turned up tomorrow with a plan and funds to stage a major Speedway meeting at the Olympic Stadium in October 2012 they'd bite that person's hand off..