Mark Jones

[scribbler]

Well, Mark has now ridden his last home meeting for the Hornets as his stated scheduled return date is 2nd September.

 

Quoted in the Star, Laurence Rogers states that the club intends to sign a new rider soon ".......because Mark Jones' six month UK permit is up in early September and he has to go back to Australia".

 

I'm not an expert on UK Border Agency rules by any stretch so does anybody know what these 6 month permits are and does this now confirm that Mark's stay and competing for the Hornets was completely kosher?

Taken from the WorkPermit.com site..

 

'Who needs a work permit

Sportspeople

If you have a genuine invitation to participate in an organised sporting event, you may enter the UK for up to six months as a sportsperson. You would not need a work permit, but there are certain sporting activities that you would not be able to take part in.

If you want to enter the UK for a holiday that involves a recreational sport then you can come as a visitor. You should enter as a business visitor if you want to:

• take part in trials; but you should not be paid to do so;

• negotiate contracts or discuss sponsorship;

• make personnel appearances or promotions.

As a professional or amateur sportsperson, you can participate in an event, series, or tournament as an individual competitor or as a member of a team.

As an amateur or professional sportsperson, you can participate in a one-off charity sporting event, testimonial, benefit or exhibition match; you must not receive payment.

As an amateur sportsperson, you can join a UK club that is mainly amateur, i.e. with only one or two professional players. You are allowed to accept board, lodging and reasonable expenses, but no pay.

As a groom, you can accompany a horse in a competitive event or series of events.

As a personal coach, you can accompany a sportsperson for an event or series of events. You can also come to officiate for an event or series of events.

 

 

 

To come to the United Kingdom for other kinds of sporting activity, you need a work permit.

You will need a work permit if you intend to:

• base yourself in the United Kingdom for a sporting season

• join or represent a British team and receive pay,

• give coaching (unless you are personal coach accompanying a sportsperson for a specific event or series of events)

• stay more than 6 months.

 

 

I'm a bit confused because I read it that if he has/had a work permit he could stay for more than 6 months...

 

What do others think?

[Pinny]

Mark was given a 6 month permit I think, however long it was it allowed him to race NL speedway.

 

He is returning home early due to the fact he came over here early to ride in his late brother Ashley's memorial meeting.

 

He rode here in 2010 perfectly legally, so I think this thread should be locked and removed. An official announcement should be made in my opinion.

[scribbler]

Mark was given a 6 month permit I think, however long it was it allowed him to race NL speedway.

 

He rode here in 2010 perfectly legally, so I think this thread should be locked and removed. An official announcement should be made in my opinion.

 

What a strange reaction

 

I can understand when people ask moderators to lock a thread...

 

But why would anybody want a thread removed after 60+ posts about a rider...

 

Reading the extract I have 'cut and pasted' from WorkPermits.com I'm querying whether a 6 month permit actually does allow riders to ride - given that they are probably paid per point. As you (Wanna) stated earlier - Grant Tregoning did exactly the same last year...

 

I'd like to see this thread remain open and stay here - and an official announcement about the type of visa/sports work permit that has been used for Tregoning, Jones and any other rider in the NL who came over here for six months at a time...

Edited August 24, 2010 by scribbler

[Pinny]

How is it a strange reaction?

 

Rumours of a rider riding here when he shouldnt be, the rider most probably reads this forum, do you really think he wants to read these posts when there has never been any doubt about him being allowed to ride here?

 

A simalar topic was started about Alex Davies for the Wasps at the beginning of the season.

 

An official PR from NEwport would be good just to finally put this topic to bed, having spoken to Mark about it last Friday whilst out on the town I know who I would believe over someone posting what he or she has heard on here.

[BigFatDave]

How is it a strange reaction?

 

Rumours of a rider riding here when he shouldnt be, the rider most probably reads this forum, do you really think he wants to read these posts when there has never been any doubt about him being allowed to ride here?

 

A simalar topic was started about Alex Davies for the Wasps at the beginning of the season.

 

An official PR from NEwport would be good just to finally put this topic to bed, having spoken to Mark about it last Friday whilst out on the town I know who I would believe over someone posting what he or she has heard on here.

 

The joys of the BSF, where you can push your own barrow without ever being called to account for it; make allegations without any proof and smear young blokes who haven't done anything wrong; where rather than taking the opportunity to ask the person yourself you stick it on here and encourage the conspiracy theorists to crawl out of the woodwork.

 

Great that Mark's leg held up to the rigours of the season, the last thing he would have wanted was this storm in a teacup; hopefully the Mighty HORNETS can pick up a replacement without upsetting everyone - as you say, Wanna, the Newport Promotion should act publicly, and as soon as possible.

[Pinny]

Mark has had a good debut year Dave, if a little inconsistent. He has proved he can gate and pass, and I think he is close to PL standard.

 

When you see the likes of Worall, Irving etc riding in the PL, I would say Mark is more than capable of being a good reserve. He is a crowd favourite too.

[Diesel]

Its been a pleasure to watch Mark ride for the Hornets. He is a thinking rider who you can see pick his lines, weighing up opposition riders before making passes.

 

I look forward to seeing him again next year, its just a shame he would be saddled with a 5 point average in the PL.

[June]

Mark has had a good debut year Dave, if a little inconsistent. He has proved he can gate and pass, and I think he is close to PL standard.

 

When you see the likes of Worall, Irving etc riding in the PL, I would say Mark is more than capable of being a good reserve. He is a crowd favourite too.

Why quote 2 british youngsters who are having trials in the PL.....nothing to do with Visa's .....its their right and part of Scunny's develpement policy.

[squall]

I can't see there being any point in this arguing to carry on until an official statement is released.

 

The fans of the riders team will defend him, fans of every other team will say he's an illegal rider.

 

If he rode for anyone else other than Newport, Newport fans would be saying he's an illegal rider.

 

I'm getting bored of reading posts that just about repeat previous ones.

 

Oh and, WTF have Worrall and Irving got to do with the price of fish?

Edited August 24, 2010 by squall

[scribbler]

Its been a pleasure to watch Mark ride for the Hornets. He is a thinking rider who you can see pick his lines, weighing up opposition riders before making passes.

 

I look forward to seeing him again next year, its just a shame he would be saddled with a 5 point average in the PL.

 

I honestly thought - with all the hype - that Mark Jones was a young rider about 16 or 17...

 

I've just looked on the BSPA website ... he's 24 - and was winning the under 16 Championships in Australia in 2001 & 2002!!!

 

Perhaps he should have gone straight into the PL...so that youngsters (ie under 18's) of any nationality could get the opportunity to develop...

Edited August 24, 2010 by scribbler

[Pinny]

The thread is entitled Mark Jones, June. If I want to compare him to current riders or riders who have rode PL this year I will.

 

The facts of the matter are that Mark has had a thread started up about him apparantly riding illegially in the NL when infact he is not. Maybe the fact that the promotion have issued a statement is because there is no reason to, they know hes been legal since day one. It would be a good idea for them to clarify things but on the other hand, why should they bother?

 

All this garbage about Brits is tiresome. If you take out or decrease the amount of non Brits in any league in Britain, you will get a weaker product. With the leagues already being quite weak, is that a good idea?

 

The young Brits are put through their tests at under 16 level where no foreigners ride. They hit reality when they come into professional speedway, racing against foreign riders who are up to standard. Mark Jones has been a fine addition to the NL this season and has entertained whenever I have seen him.

 

Racing against foreigners at NL level should do no harm to young Brits at all, its hardly like Jones has been banging in consistent maximums and is invincible in the NL is it?

 

The anti-foreign argument is just an excuse for most young Brits being below standard unfortunately. Young Aussies travel the world to race speedway because they love it, they are more hungry for success. Hence their succes rate compared to ours.

 

Off topic slightly but as far as I am concerned, this thread shouldnt be here. Mark rode legally this season, end of story. Get used to it.

[scribbler]

The thread is entitled Mark Jones, June. If I want to compare him to current riders or riders who have rode PL this year I will.

 

The facts of the matter are that Mark has had a thread started up about him apparantly riding illegially in the NL when infact he is not.

 

Actually - no... read the first post

 

If you take out or decrease the amount of non Brits in any league in Britain, you will get a weaker product. With the leagues already being quite weak, is that a good idea?

 

So instead we have a weak GB team..

 

Mark Jones has been a fine addition to the NL this season and has entertained whenever I have seen him.

 

As a 24 year old - winning under sixteen Championships in Australia in 2001 and 2002 - I would have thought that the PL was better for someone of his age and experience.

 

 

Young Aussies travel the world to race speedway because they love it, they are more hungry for success. Hence their succes rate compared to ours.

 

And get everything that any British rider doesn't... board and lodging, van, mechanic and probably more...

 

Off topic slightly but as far as I am concerned, this thread shouldnt be here. Mark rode legally this season, end of story. Get used to it.

 

As far as I'm concerned this thread should stay - at least until there is confirmation from the Promotion that it was all legal and above board. All your protestations do not convice me one bit. In fact - methinks thou do protest too much...My reading of the Border Agency law is obviously different to yours... and I'm yet to be convinced...as - I suspect - are others...

[philcrumpisgod]

Can anybody tell us the situation surrounding Mark Jones at the Hornets? I've heard he has to return home soon (something about the end of his visa ) and that when he does there's the possibility of him being replaced by the returning Tim Webster.

 

Mark's been great to have at the Hornets and has piled up plenty of points for us with great style so it will be disappointing to see him go but nevertheless good to see Tim back if that happens. Anybody got any info?

 

Wanna, can you tell me anywhere in this thread starting post where I have questioned Mark's legality to ride over here? It is as clear as day, I only asked when he was returning home and who might be replacing him when he went.

 

So please do not read something sinister into the topic when it is not there, and thanks scribbler for realising the same.

[Pinny]

As far as I'm concerned this thread should stay - at least until there is confirmation from the Promotion that it was all legal and above board. All your protestations do not convice me one bit. In fact - methinks thou do protest too much...My reading of the Border Agency law is obviously different to yours... and I'm yet to be convinced...as - I suspect - are others...

 

The more I have thought about it, the more it makes sense. WHy come out and make a statement when there is no need? His place in Newport Hornets team is all legal and above board. Why are people not questioning Jade Mudgeways inclusion in Buxtons 2008 and 2009 team? He is a couple of years younger than Mark but rode NL and joined the PL on a 5.00. Did he have a proper visa? Did it ever get questioned? No.

 

As for your remarks about a weaker GB team, do you really think the reason the Team GB world cup team is so poor is because too many foreigners ride over here? LOL. Dont talk nonsense.

 

As I have said many times before and nobody will listen, the top nations in the world (Denmark, Aussie, POland, Sweden etc) all run 80cc junior leagues where riders are racing eachother from ages of about 6 or 7. The leagues are run properly, you often see under 16 Denmark Vs Sweden 80cc test matches. Are Britain involved? Of course not.

 

Dont tell me the reason that GB dont have such youth schemes is because of money, we are a lot better off money wise than Denmark and Poland in particular. The other countries want it, there are hot talents coming off the production line all the time.

 

As for what they get that Brits dont, thats rubbish. Most foreign riders provide their own bikes, they pay for lodging (or are you suggesting Brits should be allowed to doss at other peoples houses and eat etc for nothing), they fund their own way here, they either bring a mechanic from home or pay for a British one.

 

The amount of slating young foreign riders get is pathetic. They enjoy their racing and just want to race.

 

Glasgow have before stated that they have approached young Brits with good deals only for them to turn it down because of the travelling. That shows lazyness and lack of ambition. Yet you have Aussies and New Zealanders travelling the world away from their familys for 6 months to race.

 

Your argument holds no water. The poor quality of British youngsters stretches way back further than an Aussie riding in the NL.

[bradfordslider]

[quote)

 

As for what they get that Brits dont, thats rubbish. Most foreign riders provide their own bikes, they pay for lodging (or are you suggesting Brits should be allowed to doss at other peoples houses and eat etc for nothing), they fund their own way here, they either bring a mechanic from home or pay for a British one.

 

Dont make me laugh,If you think that is the norm then you are very mistaken. Not saying it does not happen at all but to think this is what most do is laughable.

Edited August 24, 2010 by bradfordslider

[squall]

Why are people not questioning Jade Mudgeways inclusion in Buxtons 2008 and 2009 team?

 

Because he didn't ride for Buxton in 2008

[June]

Wanna......you and I are miles apart in our opinions regarding young british riders and opportunities given to Aussies at the expence of our own lads. I am not going into yet another debate, theres been so many and nothing much changes. I'm not against foreigners riding in our leagues but Aussies come in on lower averages than the Swedes and Danes thats why they get an advantage. I still think you are out of order to involve S. Worrell and Gary Irving in this thread, their inclusions in the PL has no bearings whatsoever.....As for the Mark Jones situation if he rides legally, no problem, but for goodness sake get your promoter to make a statement so we can move on.

[scribbler]

Why are people not questioning Jade Mudgeways inclusion in Buxtons 2008 and 2009 team? He is a couple of years younger than Mark but rode NL and joined the PL on a 5.00. Did he have a proper visa? Did it ever get questioned? No.

 

For one very good reason - Buxton would never do such a thing...

 

 

As for what they get that Brits dont, thats rubbish. Most foreign riders provide their own bikes, they pay for lodging (or are you suggesting Brits should be allowed to doss at other peoples houses and eat etc for nothing), they fund their own way here, they either bring a mechanic from home or pay for a British one.

 

Did I just see a pig flying... Some of us really do know what happens behind the scenes...

 

Glasgow have before stated that they have approached young Brits with good deals only for them to turn it down because of the travelling. That shows lazyness and lack of ambition. Yet you have Aussies and New Zealanders travelling the world away from their familys for 6 months to race.

 

Arguements going around in circles... Glasgow find their foreign riders board and lodging etc. Young British riders are reliant on parents for transport - costly enough for away meeting - astronomical for home and away matches

 

Your argument holds no water.

 

The more you defend Newport the more I think that you are more than just any ordinary supporter... I guess you're a friend of the Malletts.

[Pinny]

Wanna......you and I are miles apart in our opinions regarding young british riders and opportunities given to Aussies at the expence of our own lads. I am not going into yet another debate, theres been so many and nothing much changes. I'm not against foreigners riding in our leagues but Aussies come in on lower averages than the Swedes and Danes thats why they get an advantage. I still think you are out of order to involve S. Worrell and Gary Irving in this thread, their inclusions in the PL has no bearings whatsoever.....As for the Mark Jones situation if he rides legally, no problem, but for goodness sake get your promoter to make a statement so we can move on.

 

Fair enough.

 

My point regarding Worrell and Irving was that if they are good enough to be snapped up by a PL team, then Jonesy should have no problem.

[Pinny]

For one very good reason - Buxton would never do such a thing...

 

Ah right. Newport obviously would as they have a huge history of employing illegial riders dont they?!

 

Did I just see a pig flying... Some of us really do know what happens behind the scenes...

 

As do I. I know three of the four newcomers Newport Wasps lined up with this season done exactly what I listed regarding their own machinery, mechanics etc. And that is another fact for you.

 

Arguements going around in circles... Glasgow find their foreign riders board and lodging etc. Young British riders are reliant on parents for transport - costly enough for away meeting - astronomical for home and away matches

 

They had to pay for Danny Bird to fly up to Glasgow from his southern based home for every home meeting because he was too lazy to drive up. That must of cost a lot of money surely? Oh wait, that cant be true because he is British!

 

The more you defend Newport the more I think that you are more than just any ordinary supporter... I guess you're a friend of the Malletts.

 

I ran Newports Official Site from the day Malletts took over until May 2010 when I had enough. I havent fell out with them but we are no longer in contact and I havent been to the track since May when I finished the website. I have no reason to defend them.

 

They bent over backwards for "young gun" Sam Hurst in 2009, lending him bikes etc, they done everything for him, he used their van. And he through it back in their face. Why would they want to go through the same again?

 

As said, you may think your well in the know and you could be, I couldn't careless but I know a hell of a lot of what goes on through my time doing the website. And it is a lot more than you think.

 

All this comming because of a thread going from asking why Mark Jones is returning home early. It turned from that to talk of riding here illegially. He is perfectly legal, get over it and find something else to moan over .

Edited August 24, 2010 by Wanna