philcrumpisgod Posted August 19, 2010 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2010 With all due respect, Phil, that's Bulldust, mate. You've been on here long enough to know that you don't have to do much to stir up the 'Little Englanders' who infest this forum. Cheers Dave, just been chuckling over your dinner roll joke and end up getting a rebuke from one of Newport's finest Never meant to stir up a Hornet's nest, no pun intended, just a query about how long we might still have Mark tearing up the tracks for us? There's certainly no little Englander in me over this subject, I've long held an affinity with Aussies over here and especially those riding for Newport ever since the Mildura Marvel was doing his thing in the black and amber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigFatDave Posted August 19, 2010 Report Share Posted August 19, 2010 Cheers Dave, just been chuckling over your dinner roll joke and end up getting a rebuke from one of Newport's finest Never meant to stir up a Hornet's nest, no pun intended, just a query about how long we might still have Mark tearing up the tracks for us? There's certainly no little Englander in me over this subject, I've long held an affinity with Aussies over here and especially those riding for Newport ever since the Mildura Marvel was doing his thing in the black and amber Trouble is, Phil, you stuck it on here and now they crawl out of the woodwork, taking conjecture as fact and over-exaggerating everything from there onwards. Maybe in hindsight it was a question that should have been asked in the Clubhouse/bar after a match; that way if it happened there it would stay there. Glad you liked the bread roll joke: its a ripper!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greyhoundp Posted August 19, 2010 Report Share Posted August 19, 2010 BFD, i am by NO means a little englander, as YOU well know we have two Aussies in our Team at Dudley. My G/f just happens to be Chinese, she is here on a 5 year work permit, then she will apply for her permanent stay early next year, yes we could have taken the easy way, and got another type of licence <vows and all that> but she chooses not to. If Mark is on a Tourist visa he should NOT be riding, and it may well affect his future when it comes to applying for a future visa, Mark is no different to any other person when it comes to "Border Agency" regs, so NO i have not come out of the woodwork, i am not by ANY means a little englander, I just like to see, a level playing field for everyone, but once again the BSPA shows some degree of ineptitude in all of this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scribbler Posted August 19, 2010 Report Share Posted August 19, 2010 There's certainly no little Englander in me over this subject, I've long held an affinity with Aussies over here Me too - I'm still in contact with the widow of Gordon Guasco(GG)40 years after his death - on a Speedway bike, riding in Australia. He was an Australian who used to ride for Poole Pirates (and other teams) and was my next door neighbour when he rode for them. Being critical of the way rules are being manipulated makes me a speedway supporter... not a Little Englander... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigFatDave Posted August 19, 2010 Report Share Posted August 19, 2010 (edited) BFD, i am by NO means a little englander, as YOU well know we have two Aussies in our Team at Dudley. My G/f just happens to be Chinese, she is here on a 5 year work permit, then she will apply for her permanent stay early next year, yes we could have taken the easy way, and got another type of licence <vows and all that> but she chooses not to. If Mark is on a Tourist visa he should NOT be riding, and it may well affect his future when it comes to applying for a future visa, Mark is no different to any other person when it comes to "Border Agency" regs, so NO i have not come out of the woodwork, i am not by ANY means a little englander, I just like to see, a level playing field for everyone, but once again the BSPA shows some degree of ineptitude in all of this. Both Nick and Robert are riding on British passports, as YOU should well know. PS Did you like the Bread Roll joke? Edited August 19, 2010 by BigFatDave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr S Bear Posted August 19, 2010 Report Share Posted August 19, 2010 If riders are riding in Britain on Visas which do not allow them to work how does this affect any insurance they may have. If they were seriously injured or worse killed would the insurance company claim that insurance was not valid as rider was breaking the law. How would the riders employer, ie his promoter, stand as he has employed an illegal worker. Could he also face charges, fines or even jail.? Will the BSPA or SCB clear up the situation or will it he swept under the carpet with all the other difficult stuff, such as riders contracts and the Bosman ruling, - I am surprised they can open any doors at ACU HQ at Wood Street Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diesel Posted August 19, 2010 Report Share Posted August 19, 2010 Mildenhall folded - Tim Webster lost his place at Newport to a Mildenhall rider. When Mark Jones goes back home Tim Webster will (possibly/probably) get a place back in the Newport team. It's the overlap between Mildenhall folding and Mark Jones going home that has meant that Tim Webster has lost his team place. If it was really not the fault of Mark Jones being in the team why wasn't he (Mark) sidelined (because he is going home) rather than Tim Webster??? You cannot blame Mark Jones for the Mildenhall promoter acting like an arsehole. Fact of the matter is Mark Jones, Tim Webster and Luke Priest all had places at the start of the season, a team of British riders were put out of work by a British promoter and the current merrygoround ensued. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scribbler Posted August 19, 2010 Report Share Posted August 19, 2010 Why can't I blame Newport promotion - and Mark Jones - if Newport are found to have been using a rider illegally? Mildenhall folding has nothing to do with the use of a (possible) illegal rider... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigFatDave Posted August 19, 2010 Report Share Posted August 19, 2010 Why can't I blame Newport promotion - and Mark Jones - if Newport are found to have been using a rider illegally? Mildenhall folding has nothing to do with the use of a (possible) illegal rider... Are you alleging that Newport (or any other promotion, for that matter) have been tracking an illegal rider? 'Put up or shut up' springs to mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinny Posted August 20, 2010 Report Share Posted August 20, 2010 Did Tregoning not go home last year quite early due to his visa? I honestly can't see the BSPA allowing Jones to virtually complete a season illegially... not just a cock up on Newports behalf if true but an even bigger one by the sports governing body. The argument regarding Webster and Priest is nothing to do with this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben91 Posted August 20, 2010 Report Share Posted August 20, 2010 Firstly, there has been absolutely no 'little englander' style postings on this thread, all have been about Mark's possible visa issues. It doesn't matter if he is from Australia, America or Outer Mongolia, if his visa does not allow him to work here, then he is an illegal rider, just as Tyson Nelson was. I highly doubt that all the Commonwealth riders in the league are racing illegally is true, that would mean a major cock up on the part of pretty much every promoter in the league plus the BSPA and even that is unlikely IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scribbler Posted August 20, 2010 Report Share Posted August 20, 2010 Did Tregoning not go home last year quite early due to his visa? I honestly can't see the BSPA allowing Jones to virtually complete a season illegially... not just a cock up on Newports behalf if true but an even bigger one by the sports governing body. There is one explanation that I can think of... I wonder whether the Borders Agency have (recently?)changed the rules Of course it should be up to the BSPA to keep up to date with any changes - and to check visas. As I've previously stated - if a photocopy of each rider's visa was logged at the BSPA there would be none of these concerns or discrepancies. Perhaps thats too simple and logical... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrystalCastles Posted August 20, 2010 Report Share Posted August 20, 2010 http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/workingintheuk/tier5/youthmobilityscheme/eligibility/whocanapply/ How long can you stay for? If you are given permission to stay under the youth mobility scheme, you will be able to live and work in the United Kingdom for a maximum time of 24 months. You can leave and come back to the United Kingdom at any time during the length of your stay under the youth mobility scheme. Just curious but is it possible to apply for a yms visa for a shorter period of time? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scribbler Posted August 20, 2010 Report Share Posted August 20, 2010 http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/workingintheuk/tier5/youthmobilityscheme/eligibility/whocanapply/ Just curious but is it possible to apply for a yms visa for a shorter period of time? But why would a rider wish to return home before the end of a season Especially - why would a rider wish to return home before the end of the season when his team could be in with a chance of winning the League and/or winning the playoffs - and the Cup (?) I can't see a youngster willingly going home and missing out on possible glory - or willing (possibly) messing up his team's chances of honours... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greyhoundp Posted August 20, 2010 Report Share Posted August 20, 2010 I would just like to add there as been an almighty silence, thats deafening, from Officialdom at the Track concerned on this subject, and i know for a fact they DO come on HERE, and i am presuming they have read this thread. I honestly hope the rider is NOT on a Tourist visa, not for any other reason, than for the integrity of the Persons, Club, Bspa, and the Sport in general, I dont want to see points deducted etc,etc,etc I would rather ANY Team win whatever fairly and squarely, not because of this that and the other, that happens OFF Track. So it would be very easy to put this subject to bed once and for all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoaty Posted August 20, 2010 Report Share Posted August 20, 2010 (edited) It doesn't matter if he is from Australia, America or Outer Mongolia, if his visa does not allow him to work here, then he is an illegal rider, just as Tyson Nelson was. Tyson Nelson did one meeting before it transpired he couldn't ride. I think if the same was true of Mark and the other Aussies then there would've been much shouting at the start of the season rather than hints of possibilities at the end. Edited August 20, 2010 by Stoaty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scribbler Posted August 20, 2010 Report Share Posted August 20, 2010 Tyson Nelson did one meeting before it transpired he couldn't ride. I think if the same was true of Mark and the other Aussies then there would've been much shouting at the start of the season rather than hints of possibilities at the end. I think that timing is everything... Tyson Nelson did his one meeting half way through the season. Any other Aussie has begun the season with a team - and now we see one returning home before the end of the season. I'd presume that there would have been shouting at the beginning of the season if riders returning home dates were known. The BSPA and promoters really do underestimate supporters... we can Google Borders Agency information - we can suss out irregularities - we can see weaknesses/inconsistencies in decisions made by the BSPA - we can work out when promoters are (maybe) 'pulling a fast one'. Before these Forums promoters and the BSPA may have been able to 'work things out between themselves' - but nowadays supporters have ways of communicating and finding out their own information - and are therefore less gullible and more informed... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philcrumpisgod Posted August 20, 2010 Author Report Share Posted August 20, 2010 I would just like to add there as been an almighty silence, thats deafening, from Officialdom at the Track concerned on this subject, and i know for a fact they DO come on HERE, and i am presuming they have read this thread. I honestly hope the rider is NOT on a Tourist visa, not for any other reason, than for the integrity of the Persons, Club, Bspa, and the Sport in general, I dont want to see points deducted etc,etc,etc I would rather ANY Team win whatever fairly and squarely, not because of this that and the other, that happens OFF Track. So it would be very easy to put this subject to bed once and for all. Whilst I don't necessarily disagree with what you've written here gp, I would like to make it clear that I didn't start this thread with the intent of trying to force our club into making a potentially embarrassing defence of their employment of Mark, it was simply to ask if anybody knew when he was due to leave us (for whatever reason) and whether or not Tim might return in Mark's place when he left. Beginning to think BFD was right and I shouldn't have bothered airing the question on here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradfordslider Posted August 20, 2010 Report Share Posted August 20, 2010 If and I say IF Mark jones was found to have been riding when he was not on the right visa not only would it affect Newport but what about the clubs that he has guested for and the points he has scoered for them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrystalCastles Posted August 20, 2010 Report Share Posted August 20, 2010 But why would a rider wish to return home before the end of a season Maybe he has other things to do? A life outside of british speedway? I was just airing a question......in the hope someone who knows more about the regulations regarding the yms visa might be able to answer it. IMO if he is riding illegally newport should be punished. But unless i knew the facts (which i hasten to add i dont) i dont think its right to speculate or presume anything. p.s. not directed at you scribbler, from what ive read you have only asked questions regarding the situation with the hope of gaining factual enlightenment, to answer and resolve the aforementioned questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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