scribbler Posted August 24, 2010 Report Share Posted August 24, 2010 Fair enough. My point regarding Worrell and Irving was that if they are good enough to be snapped up by a PL team, then Jonesy should have no problem. Worrall can't be that bad - he's 'tasted' Pl level riding only months after sitting on a Speedway bike for the first time. Jonesy was under 16 Australian Champion in 1999 - 11 years age - yet he's still only in the NL. Has he ever been asked to ride in the PL (genuine question) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinny Posted August 24, 2010 Report Share Posted August 24, 2010 Didnt say Worrall was that bad but at this stage I would rate Jones as the better rider, and expect him to progress in 2011. Yes, Mildenhall in 2008 announced they were in talks with him and I am sure Kings Lynn were after him at one stage, sure someone will clarify this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scribbler Posted August 24, 2010 Report Share Posted August 24, 2010 Didnt say Worrall was that bad but at this stage I would rate Jones as the better rider, and expect him to progress in 2011. Yes, Mildenhall in 2008 announced they were in talks with him and I am sure Kings Lynn were after him at one stage, sure someone will clarify this. The implication was that Worrall was a poor rider - and British. But Jones wasn't offered a PL place this year... Worrall was. Both ride for Clubs with a PL and an NDL team. I guess the fact that Jones couldn't stay the whole season was why he rode NL and not PL... the rules are adhered to more stringently there I guess... You say that you left Newport Speedway, because you'd had enough, that's about the same time that Mallett junior lost his promoters licience... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dietbowers Posted August 24, 2010 Report Share Posted August 24, 2010 Keep trying Scribbler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayne Posted August 24, 2010 Report Share Posted August 24, 2010 The more I have thought about it, the more it makes sense. WHy come out and make a statement when there is no need? His place in Newport Hornets team is all legal and above board. Why are people not questioning Jade Mudgeways inclusion in Buxtons 2008 and 2009 team? He is a couple of years younger than Mark but rode NL and joined the PL on a 5.00. Did he have a proper visa? Did it ever get questioned? No. As Squall says later on, Jade did not ride for Buxton in 2008. In fact he rode for Redcar before moving to Buxton in 2009 after Redcar decided not to run in the CL/NL. I can't comment on his circumstances at Redcar but I can confirm that he did indeed have the correct visa whilst riding for Buxton. The only reason why anyone is querying the legality of Mark Jones' visa, and to my knowledge he isn't the only one, is that it has been stated that he only has a 6 month visa. Unless the rules have changed you can only compete in the NL on a youth mobility visa which lasts for 2 years although you can come and go as you please during that time. Something doesn't add up somewhere as there is an obvious discrepancy between the validity periods of the visas in question. Maybe the rules have changed and that explains everything but it would be nice to know either way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinny Posted August 24, 2010 Report Share Posted August 24, 2010 The implication was that Worrall was a poor rider - and British. But Jones wasn't offered a PL place this year... Worrall was. Both ride for Clubs with a PL and an NDL team. I guess the fact that Jones couldn't stay the whole season was why he rode NL and not PL... the rules are adhered to more stringently there I guess... You say that you left Newport Speedway, because you'd had enough, that's about the same time that Mallett junior lost his promoters licience... No, my implication was that Mark Jones is, in my opinion, a better rider (at the moment) than Steve Worall. Worall and Irving were just two riders I picked off the top of my head. I also think he is a better rider than the likes of Courtney, Davey, Bujega, McDade, etc. I would love to see GB back on the map but sadly it wont happen for some time and it is not fair to blame that on Aussies riding in the NL! I quit my job as webmaster after a shambolic performance against Birmingham in May when I left the stadium far from happy with the way the team performed, and havent returned since. It is absoloutely nothing to do with Nick Mallett having his promoters license taken away from him and anyone who knows me well will confirm that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scribbler Posted August 24, 2010 Report Share Posted August 24, 2010 As Squall says later on, Jade did not ride for Buxton in 2008. In fact he rode for Redcar before moving to Buxton in 2009 after Redcar decided not to run in the CL/NL. I can't comment on his circumstances at Redcar but I can confirm that he did indeed have the correct visa whilst riding for Buxton. The only reason why anyone is querying the legality of Mark Jones' visa, and to my knowledge he isn't the only one, is that it has been stated that he only has a 6 month visa. Unless the rules have changed you can only compete in the NL on a youth mobility visa which lasts for 2 years although you can come and go as you please during that time. Something doesn't add up somewhere as there is an obvious discrepancy between the validity periods of the visas in question. Maybe the rules have changed and that explains everything but it would be nice to know either way. As far as I can see - looking on the Border Agency website - the rules haven't changed. I did cut and paste them at the top of page 5... Obviously Mark can't ride on a Youth Mobility visa... Jayne - are you thinking of Tregoning last year? ... also Newport IIRC... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philcrumpisgod Posted August 24, 2010 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2010 All this comming because of a thread going from asking why Mark Jones is returning home early. It turned from that to talk of riding here illegially. He is perfectly legal, get over it and find something else to moan over . Is it now safe to assume that you have changed your mind about the thread being started about Mark apparently riding here illegally although you didn't answer me directly when I challenged you about it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montie Posted August 24, 2010 Report Share Posted August 24, 2010 As far as I can see - looking on the Border Agency website - the rules haven't changed. I did cut and paste them at the top of page 5... Obviously Mark can't ride on a Youth Mobility visa... As i see this,if you have a "youth mobility visa" or "holiday visa" as some call it,you cant ride in the NDL.proved by tyson nelson other option is a full blown "work permit",which again i believe you cant use in the NDL [eg Kurt Sheilds couldnt ride in NL], but is fine for PL and EL as the permit permits the said person to earn on a professional basis If, as i read it,and have been told is true ,does that make a problem with Dyer,Kurtz etc? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madirish is here Posted August 24, 2010 Report Share Posted August 24, 2010 (edited) if mark jones rode for any other club there would be a topic would there.i dont think so.as for tim webbers he is on the sick .so he as not lost his place in the team. if a rider is on the sick he cannot ride for 28 days Edited August 24, 2010 by madirish is here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigFatDave Posted August 24, 2010 Report Share Posted August 24, 2010 Jonesy was under 16 Australian Champion in 1999 - 11 years age - yet he's still only in the NL. Has he ever been asked to ride in the PL (genuine question) Mark only returned to Speedway this last Downunder season after a few years out following a serious injury to his leg. Its amazing he can walk properly again, let alone ride. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scribbler Posted August 24, 2010 Report Share Posted August 24, 2010 if mark jones rode for any other club there would be a topic would there.i dont think so.as for tim webbers he is on the sick .so he as not lost his place in the team. if a rider is on the sick he cannot ride for 28 days Not sure you've got the rules right there... Normally a rider is off sick until he's declared fit... You wouldn't stop a rider riding for 28 days if he was off with the flu or something. Normally the 28 days is put into place by a promoter to stop a rider from moving to another team... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madirish is here Posted August 24, 2010 Report Share Posted August 24, 2010 somebody said on here about young britsh riders in the nl so why are nl clubs getting pl riders in. why not get young ones in because they want to win newport as one ex pl rider other teams havr two or more pl riders in there teams .so the ? why i though the nl was for young rider not pl riders who lost his place in the pl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Posted August 25, 2010 Report Share Posted August 25, 2010 They bent over backwards for "young gun" Sam Hurst in 2009, lending him bikes etc, they done everything for him, he used their van. And he through it back in their face. Why would they want to go through the same again? I have stayed out of this topic because it involves Newport but that is an outright lie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinny Posted August 25, 2010 Report Share Posted August 25, 2010 I have stayed out of this topic because it involves Newport but that is an outright lie. Of course it is Vince. Anything your Sam does is never wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan_Jones Posted August 25, 2010 Report Share Posted August 25, 2010 Obviously Mark can't ride on a Youth Mobility visa... Why not? Certainly not because of his age, as he's under 31. As i see this,if you have a "youth mobility visa" or "holiday visa" as some call it,you cant ride in the NDL.proved by tyson nelson Youth Mobility Visa and Holiday Visa are two different things. Tyson Nelson is too young to have a YMV. The Working Holiday Visa scheme appears to have ended in 2008. Unfortunately, the UKBA rules seem to be as easy to understand as those of the BSPA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scribbler Posted August 25, 2010 Report Share Posted August 25, 2010 Why not? Certainly not because of his age, as he's under 31. Youth Mobility Visa and Holiday Visa are two different things. Tyson Nelson is too young to have a YMV. The Working Holiday Visa scheme appears to have ended in 2008. Unfortunately, the UKBA rules seem to be as easy to understand as those of the BSPA. Information from Borders Agency...and my interpretation is... As a general visitor - aged 18 or over - must not be in employment nor involved in sports As a sports visitor - not allowed to be in paid employment As a temporary sports worker - must be at the highest level of your sport Youth Mobility Scheme - Cannot apply if has previously held a Youth Mobility Visa. Not allowed to engage in a professional sport... The UKBA (I think) uses laws - not rules - there are consequences for breaking these laws(?). I'm not sure whether a sportsperson can be banned from competing over here if he has previously been found to break these laws - and this is the point that worries me. It wouldn't affect a promoter who wanted a rider for one season - but it could ruin a riders career... The UKBA site may be complex - but the information is written down and we can view them on their website. As laws(?) they can be changed - but they are more transparent than the BSPA rules... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevehone Posted August 25, 2010 Report Share Posted August 25, 2010 Darcy Ward came over and there was no disputing his talent, but because of his visa he wasn't able to ride in the PL .. i guess Mark has a similar visa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scribbler Posted August 25, 2010 Report Share Posted August 25, 2010 I really think that the problems have occurred because of lax management by the BSPA... The BSPA should be watching for changes in visas and checking the UK Borders Agency before every season. To my mind they have a duty of care to the riders and should ensure that eveything is 'above board.' If a rider's career is affected by any decision/non-decision that the BSPA make I wonder if the rider could sue the BSPA? Promoters should - I think - have their liciences suspended if they knowingly use a rider without the correct paperwork(hard to prove I know - if the BSPA aren't doing the job properly at their end). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montie Posted August 25, 2010 Report Share Posted August 25, 2010 Darcy Ward came over and there was no disputing his talent, but because of his visa he wasn't able to ride in the PL .. i guess Mark has a similar visa. Was it 2008 Darcy came over and did he finish the season or did he go home before then end? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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