Mauger Better Than Rickardsson?

[norbold]

Trick second best.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You mean second equal with Ove Fundin, who won his five titles against the likes of Briggs, Craven, Moore and Knutson. He also came second three times and third three times. That's a total of eleven rostrum places. For my money, he was better than both Mauger and Trick...

[Shoddy]

Fundin - 10 consecutive rostrum appearances (6 in top 2). 4 wins, 3 seconds, 3 thirds. Missed out on 11 due to suspension, before winning the year after!

 

Mauger - 8 consecutive rostrum appearances (7 in top 2). 4 wins, 3 seconds, 1 third. Also won it on two other occasions of course.

 

Rickardsson - 7 consecutive rostrum appearanes (and counting! only 2 in top 2). 4 wins, 1 second and 2 thirds. Has another win and a second place.

 

Nielsen - 6 consecutive rostrum appearances (all in top 2). 3 wins, 3 seconds. Also added 4 more in a separate run (all in top 2 again) with 1 win and 3 seconds. Added two other 3rd places aswell.

 

Crump - 4 conescutive rostrum appearance (and counting, all in top 2). 1 win, 3 seconds.

 

Ronnie Moore, Barry Briggs and Tomasz Gollob have all been on three consecutive rostrums - as far as I can tell that is the lot for 3+???

 

(...and for Norbold...

 

Vic Huxley - 2nd, 1st, 2nd, 2nd in the first four Star Riders Championships.

Wilbur Lamoreaux - 2nd and 3rd in 1937 & 38 and had qualified in 3rd place for the 1939 final which never took place.

Jack Milne had also qualified for this final after finishing 1st and 2nd in the previous years.

Eric Chitty - 1st, 1st, 1st during the war years.

Bill Kitchen - 1st, 2nd, 2nd from 1945 to 1947.)

Edited November 2, 2004 by Shoddy

[Custom House Kid]

Having seen both my preferd choice T Rickardsson!

[Guest BilaHora]

Mr Shoddy

 

Perhaps I am missing something but in your analysis of Tony Rickardsson you note that he only finished in the "...top two" twice but was champion four times. As I read your analysis, Tony Rickardsson finished in the "...top two" five times, winning four and being runner-up once.

As I said, perhaps I am missing something.

 

Regards

 

BilaHora

[stevehone]

the argument could go on for ever as everyone will have their own theories ...

all i go on is what i have seen and the stats.

 

Ivan's individual record is pretty good ...

in 70 world final races (not counting run-offs) he actually WON 45 of them ... that's not bad when up against the best.

he only had 3 x 3rd places, 1 x 4th, 1 x fall, and 1 x EF ...

 

that record speaks for itself ... out and out consistency

 

 

add that to 3 world longtrack titles, and i'd say he was pretty good

Edited November 1, 2004 by stevehone

[Crazy Munchie]

Tony Rickardsson every time.

 

Won his first title under the one off format and then went on to win 4 more under a new format showing the ability to adapt.

 

When the GP format changes again next year I'm confident Tony will again win the title and then go on to break Maugers record. Showing that he is capble of winning in what ever format put in front of him.

 

Rickardsson is the best rider ever to have lived

 

Having said that in years to come the debate will be between Rickardsson and Lindback to decide who is the best rider ever to have lived. I'm also sure that when that time comes the young Brazilian will take the crown.

[sjw ministerofport]

There have been lucky World champions and there have been riders who should have been World champions and then there are the elite of World champions, three of these are Ivan, Tony and Ove they are the ones who have set an almost super human standard for others to follow. That makes us so lucky to have witnessed their achievments and for me it does not matter really whether Tony goes on to beat Ivans record.

 

Having said that Ivan will always remain the best for me because he was my favorite. And for those who said he was a cheat at the start, he was doing what all the other riders of the time were doing only because he was Ivan he was doing it better. And as for passing how can you use that as a critism he was usually at the front.

[Ian]

For my money Ove Fundin was the tops.

 

Apart from being a fabulously consistent rider - his record speaks for itself - he was an awesome opponent when behind. In addition, the man had an aura - when Fundin came to the tapes you always had the feeling that something special was about to happen, and it often did.

 

I was also lucky enough to see Moore, Briggs, Craven and Mauger at their best. I was entirely neutral, not having been a fan of any of the old National League sides. My neutral assessment was that Moore was the smoothest, Briggs the most all-action, Craven the most spectacular and Mauger the most professional. But Fundin was something else; difficult to define, but he was one-of-a-kind.

 

I don't know how many fans were added to the gate when Ivan Mauger came visiting, but I'd bet it was a fraction of what Ove could pull in. One of my big regrets is that I never saw him perform the magic at Norfolk - it must have been something else!

[iris123]

I would say that Ivan also had an "aura" about him.It was generally a matter of wondering if he would be beaten,no matter how strong the line up.Once in front (which was most of the time)he was rarely beaten.I don't even remember him holding too many track records,he just got out of the gate and cruised round,the other riders knew he wasn't going to make a mistake and his bikes rarely packed up.Got a video of a World Champ round where i think Dave Lanning is saying something like "look,he's not even putting his foot down,just cruising round the corners!"

[sandman]

i guess only the ones who have seen both ride at their best can give a balanced opinion. close your eyes, it is thirty years ago, and both in their prime, racing against each other. then think a young ivan raised in todays speedway against tony at his best.. man that would be something to see..personally im on the fence on this one..

[Custom House Kid]

personally im on the fence on this one..

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Asleep on the air fence!

[sandman]

personally im on the fence on this one..

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Asleep on the air fence!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

man,.. but what a dream! after a bit of thought i'd go for mauger by a nose,... so far.. if tony can win his final one at 40 years old he got my vote.. he's great too though, but great and a bit greater can be a wide divide my friend. i think mauger, if he was young and hungry with nothing but determination and drive, no money and a young wife and family to support, loads of talent, cleaning the bathrooms at wimbledon for some extra money to survive like he did do, against the extremely talented tony, today in the here and now, the macavallian character would have an edge..mauger is unlike any, that todays racers have ever faced. noooo disrespect to trick, who really is something special.. time will tell. at the moment, no contest... Ivan..the later world champions may not have been, had the race against time not caught up with the great one., no mike, no bruce no eric etc etc..

Edited November 1, 2004 by sandman

[Chris Brown]

There is no argument here Tony is far superior rider wise, Ivan was a master at trapping but from the back was nowhere near as good as Tony,although Ivan was a fantastic rider in  his day and has six ind titals, for sheer riding ability and guts it has to be Tony for all round ability.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

And for me Nielsen beats the pair of them !

 

The GP argument is blown away with Nielsen. NOBODY else would have won a World Title between 1985 and 1995 had the GP format been in during those years. For sheer consistency Nielsen was the absolute master, was it 4 wins and SIX 2nd's in his time.

 

The other thing Nielsen had that Rickardsson certainly has NEVER had was the ability to team ride, apart from Bobby Schwartz nobody was in his class in this. Nielsen also done it at Longtrack level. His ability to help his team mates was 2nd to none.

 

Add to that the fact that when Nielsen was at his prime so were Gundersen, Jan O Pedersen and Tommy Knudsen. The strength in depth at the top was far far higher than today.

 

For me Nielsen stands out as the greatest all round speedway rider. Mauger is up there with him but sorry, Rickardsson is a great rider but not even in the remote same class as Hans

[sandman]

There is no argument here Tony is far superior rider wise, Ivan was a master at trapping but from the back was nowhere near as good as Tony,although Ivan was a fantastic rider in  his day and has six ind titals, for sheer riding ability and guts it has to be Tony for all round ability.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

And for me Nielsen beats the pair of them !

 

The GP argument is blown away with Nielsen. NOBODY else would have won a World Title between 1985 and 1995 had the GP format been in during those years. For sheer consistency Nielsen was the absolute master, was it 4 wins and SIX 2nd's in his time.

 

The other thing Nielsen had that Rickardsson certainly has NEVER had was the ability to team ride, apart from Bobby Schwartz nobody was in his class in this. Nielsen also done it at Longtrack level. His ability to help his team mates was 2nd to none.

 

Add to that the fact that when Nielsen was at his prime so were Gundersen, Jan O Pedersen and Tommy Knudsen. The strength in depth at the top was far far higher than today.

 

For me Nielsen stands out as the greatest all round speedway rider. Mauger is up there with him but sorry, Rickardsson is a great rider but not even in the remote same class as Hans

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

all due respect to Hans which he obviously deserves.. Mauger was much tougher mentally. Nielsen learned from Ole, who learned from Ivan, who didnt teach his all, he was too smart for that, and kept some back for himself. Chris, did you see all of the three greats at their peaks? I did. Mauger has those two easily beat, although, admittedly great, they werent Mauger. I think with all due respect, Hans won a couple of his when the weakness in the calibre of racers was a bit down from previous years. you cant say that about Ivan. Respect your opinion though, and i surely could be wrong.. just my thoughts after seeing those three at their best..

[fatface]

I've never heard anyone before ever praise Nielsen for his long-track skills. To my mind that was his biggest weakness, he never got anywhere near being the best in that discipline. As for team riding skills, Morton and Collins weren't too bad at that either.

 

To my mind it's also not certain that Hans would have won all those world titles between 85 and 95 in a GP format either. I always thought he was prone to being a little nervy on the big occasion, whose to say he would've been different in GPs.

 

Just for fun, you could flip the argument around with Leigh Adams. Let's say the one-offs had replaced an old GP format. I'd bet there would be loads of people who now be saying "if it wasn't for these one-offs, Leigh Adams would have won about five World Titles by now"

[Shoddy]

Mr Shoddy

 

Perhaps I am missing something but in your analysis of Tony Rickardsson you note that he only finished in the "...top two" twice but was champion four times. As I read your analysis, Tony Rickardsson finished in the "...top two" five times, winning four and being runner-up once.

As I said, perhaps I am missing something.

 

Regards

 

BilaHora

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yes and no!!!

 

You are right but I mean consecutive finishes. He as only been in the top 2 twice in a row during that period. Fundin and Nielsen are down as 6 because they were in the top two for 6 finals in a row and Mauger the same for 7.

 

Should have explained what I meant better!

 

Also spotted a glaring error in the 4 years in the top 3 theory which I'm about to correct - how could I have missed Crump?!?!

[stevehone]

I always thought he was prone to being a little nervy on the big occasion, whose to say he would've been different in GPs.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

especially if Gundersen was still around and riding

[Shoddy]

To my mind it's also not certain that Hans would have won all those world titles between 85 and 95 in a GP format either. I always thought he was prone to being a little nervy on the big occasion, whose to say he would've been different in GPs.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

He won the first GP series as he was the most consistent rider and he was getting well past his peak when he did it. Was also the best rider in my opinion the year after but Hamill nicked it with a couple of great performances. I think the one offs suited Gundersen but a GP series would have been much better for Nielsen. Without Gundersens injury I think these two would have dominated through the early 90's aswell (with Pedersen and perhaps Per Jonsson being up there?) but Hans seemed to lose a bit of edge for a few years after.

 

 

Just for fun, you could flip the argument around with Leigh Adams. Let's say the one-offs had replaced an old GP format. I'd bet there would be loads of people who now be saying "if it wasn't for these one-offs, Leigh Adams would have won about five World Titles by now" 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Tomasz Gollob aswell on that one!

[Jeff.]

There is no argument here Tony is far superior rider wise, Ivan was a master at trapping but from the back was nowhere near as good as Tony,although Ivan was a fantastic rider in  his day and has six ind titals, for sheer riding ability and guts it has to be Tony for all round ability.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

And for me Nielsen beats the pair of them !

 

The GP argument is blown away with Nielsen. NOBODY else would have won a World Title between 1985 and 1995 had the GP format been in during those years. For sheer consistency Nielsen was the absolute master, was it 4 wins and SIX 2nd's in his time.

 

The other thing Nielsen had that Rickardsson certainly has NEVER had was the ability to team ride, apart from Bobby Schwartz nobody was in his class in this. Nielsen also done it at Longtrack level. His ability to help his team mates was 2nd to none.

 

Add to that the fact that when Nielsen was at his prime so were Gundersen, Jan O Pedersen and Tommy Knudsen. The strength in depth at the top was far far higher than today.

 

For me Nielsen stands out as the greatest all round speedway rider. Mauger is up there with him but sorry, Rickardsson is a great rider but not even in the remote same class as Hans

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

That is a post from someone who obviously wasn't around when Ivan was in his prime, mid sixties to mid seventies. In that era there were lots of riders capable of beating each other in world finals, the eastern europeans were especially dominant when riding on their own tracks, add to them Briggs, Olsen, Michanek, Collins etc ets and you can imagine the difficulty of winning finals back then.

 

In Hans era the world final generally was about 1 race, Nielsen v Gundersen, the winner the likely champion.

 

That said I believe Hans to be almost the equal of Ivan and with just a little more luck on the nights could easily have been champion in 1984, 1985, 1988, 1994 and 1996

[SCB]

That is a post from someone who obviously wasn't around when Ivan was in his prime, mid sixties to mid seventies. In that era there were lots of riders capable of beating each other in world finals, the eastern europeans were especially dominant when riding on their own tracks, add to them Briggs, Olsen, Michanek, Collins etc ets and you can imagine the difficulty of winning finals back then.

 

 

In Hans era the world final generally was about 1 race, Nielsen v Gundersen, the winner the likely champion.

 

 

Which proves what? There were more good riders in the earlier era and more naff riders but maybe no great one where as in the later era there were 2 exceptional talents and maybe hundreds of great talents?!

 

You CANNOT compare two eras!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! IT CANT BE DONE!

 

Whats better? Bannanas or Beans?

Edited November 3, 2004 by SCB