The_Stranger Posted November 20, 2003 Report Share Posted November 20, 2003 Like most of you on here, I'm dying to know what the rule will be if you have three heat leaders and a second string missing Surely a team can't run with one guest, 1 second string, 2 reserves and RR for the other three riders Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philfromcov Posted November 21, 2003 Report Share Posted November 21, 2003 IMO,Air Fences should be brought in at every track now to stop riders getting injured!.Imangine having 6 riders injured like Kings Lynn did at the end of this season and just having 1 guest and 5 r/r not going tp work!. doesnt seem to have helped coventry much over the last couple of seasons! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shazzybird Posted November 21, 2003 Report Share Posted November 21, 2003 As already mentioned by someone else....... in other sports eg:- Football they don't have guest players they have players on contracts loaned out. In speedway they own riders contracts in this case, as I really don't understand the contract part does this mean that for instance Mark Loram contract owned by Exeter (for arguments sake) riding for Eastbourne if they have a long term injury can he be recalled back to ride @ Exeter as they "Own" him? or has he signed another contract with Eastbourne. God I've confused myself now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsunami Posted November 21, 2003 Report Share Posted November 21, 2003 I don't know why everyone likens our sport to say football. It doesn't have to be the same as the sport is different. A loan rider belongs to the team he has been loaned to for the speedway season and his owning club have no rights over the rider. In the case you mention, Mark Loram, he could not be pulled back to Exeter and also his average would not allow him to ride in the PL anyway. Its not like loan agreements in Football, doesnt have to be and works for both sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
21st century heathen Posted November 22, 2003 Report Share Posted November 22, 2003 Well I'm sorry to say I don't like this one either. I just can't see it working when injuries really kick in, which sadly they will. Either we are going to see teams struggle with half a team, can't wait to see how the GJ will work out then , or special dispensation will be unfairly handed out all over the place when they realise it doesn't work. I can't really see a squad system working over here. The riders want a team for the season not a match here or there. To use the example shazzy propossed (but using a Nikki as a guest), what if Max is injured for Wolves, so they recall Nikki. Who gets priority on his services if there's a clash of fixtures. He's a Wolves rider, but Eastie (for eg) have signed him for the season? What if Wolves are at Eastie? Obviously it looks like Wolves would be able to bring in PK instead...but that's a whole other issue!!! Perhaps that's the idea behing the grading system. To create a multiude of riders without a team, so they can be called in to guest? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lioness Posted November 22, 2003 Report Share Posted November 22, 2003 A slightly more debatable decision and I can see both sides of the argument. For my tuppence worth, I feel it is a step in the right direction but needs a bit more thought and tweaking. Perhaps there should be a similar sort of squad system as they appear to moving towards in the EL for the PL with x additional riders being used from the league below as part of a squad? Is there any provision for any team being hit with two long term injuries? As only the top average rider can be replaced by rider replacement, surely that will mean fewer guest appearances for the younger up and coming riders, less money for them and less opportunity to get extra experience to help them improve. The guys lying third/fourth in the averages could make good money out of it though! As I say I feel it is a step in the right direction but needs quite a bit of tweaking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsunami Posted November 22, 2003 Report Share Posted November 22, 2003 Lioness I think that there will be more effort to replace the second rider who is hurt for the period of the injury. This, of course, is done every season but I think it will have to be used more. In terms of a squad sytem, all the riders riding in Europe but not in the EL are really the squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lioness Posted November 22, 2003 Report Share Posted November 22, 2003 Would that not have to be all unattached riders Tsunami? I take on board your point about there being more effort made to replace any rider other than the number one for the period of the injury. Perhaps this is a plus point as it could give an opportunity to a rider not yet able to get a club for the season for one reason or another? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsunami Posted November 22, 2003 Report Share Posted November 22, 2003 Lioness Problem would that the unattached rider may not be setup with equipment to resume racing. Would he be race fit ? He certainly could call the tune in terms of points money. Foreign riders would just slot in another race day for a short period and therefore it may be the best option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lioness Posted November 24, 2003 Report Share Posted November 24, 2003 Again I see your point Tsunami. Maybe I should get a job with the BSPA as I didn't think it through properly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted November 24, 2003 Report Share Posted November 24, 2003 I like the theory that injured riders will more likely be replaced but it is a pity this may favour foreign riders more as Tsunami suggests. Except perhaps in the case of those PL riders who don't make the jump to EL due to expectations of higher earnings in the PL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racer X Posted November 24, 2003 Report Share Posted November 24, 2003 Again I see your point Tsunami. Maybe I should get a job with the BSPA as I didn't think it through properly Not only that but where - prey tell - to all these unattached riders come from? There are usually one or two on the sidelines at the start of the year who are soon snapped up as soon as any injuries hit. If you lose a second heat leader on say 8.00 - how do you replace him? If you are under the 45 point limit you could go out and get a 9.00 foreigner but if you are over you are pretty much stuffed. Effectively you have to ship out a lower order rider (say replace a 4 pointer with a 3 pointer) and axe your injured rider to bring in a 9 point rider. This will cuase howls of protest if anyone has to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derwent Posted November 27, 2003 Report Share Posted November 27, 2003 The wording of the new rule is confusing. Does it mean you can only have a guest when the rider named at No.1 in your team line-up is out - or does it mean your No. 1 in terms of your rider with the highest average ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
21st century heathen Posted November 27, 2003 Report Share Posted November 27, 2003 (edited) I took it to mean your named, top, ( grade A or B ) rider, at the start of the season. I don't think it means whoever is top of the averages at the time of the injury...I think... If it meant the rider who is the top of the teams averages in say June for arguements sake then there's another potential pitfall. Lets use Cov as an example, because this is possible with them. If they sign AJ and BJ it's possible that AJ could have a slightly dodgy season and that BJ could put another point on his average. So lets say that they are both averaging around 8.80 by mid-season. AJ has a slightly higher average and picks up a long term injury (say 6/8 weeks). Before he is ready to return BJ could have upped his average a fraction and become Cov new number one in the current averages (at that time). BJ picks up an injury, doesn't mater if he's out days or weeks. Would Cov be allowed to continue using a guest for AJ, who could still be out for a week or 2, and a guest for BJ??? Confused!!! Edited November 27, 2003 by 21st century heathen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derwent Posted November 27, 2003 Report Share Posted November 27, 2003 Yeah, but the grading system doesn't apply to PL so what happens there ? All it says is "the team's No. 1 rider" - now that could mean the guy who wears the No. 1 race jacket, it could mean your highest average at the start of the season, your highest average at that time etc etc etc Clarification needed ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted November 27, 2003 Report Share Posted November 27, 2003 I have always though that when you refer to your buber one you refer to the guy highest in the averages. eg. your number 1 ride in the EL/PL/CLRC. Not the guy at number one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsunami Posted November 27, 2003 Report Share Posted November 27, 2003 SCB Likewise. The only problem I can see is if two riders on very close averages cross over on the introduction of averages. A guest booked for one may not be able to guest for the other but I suppose there is enough time to replace him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted November 27, 2003 Report Share Posted November 27, 2003 That should not be a problem if the rules say the rider who is number one at the start of the year OR they do averages the same as this year, the averages are rom 15th to 15th but used from 1st to 1st, that gives 2 weeks for the promoters to get the averages. No different to knowing whether or not a rider is a heatleader/second string or second string/heatleader and thats never caused probalems in the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsunami Posted November 27, 2003 Report Share Posted November 27, 2003 SCB I think the averages will decide each month who is number 1 but as U say they have two weeks to change the guest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Meynell Posted December 3, 2003 Report Share Posted December 3, 2003 I think the question being asked by the poll is meaningless. Yes, most of us wish to see the abolition or reduction of guests, but adequate alternatives must be made available. I do believe that fans have become too conditioned to thinking that teams should not be weakened by injuries, when this is usually the case in every other sport. However, the loss of a heat-leader is arguably far more devasting for a speedway team than say a star midfielder is for a football team. What are teams going to do if they lose 3 or more riders in the lower order (i.e. Nos. 2 to 7), as the rules only seem to make provision for two doubling-up riders and R/R? I can't see that using BCL riders is going to be acceptable. I fully agree that last season was farcical, but this would have been an ideal time to introduce a proper squad system, perhaps still allowing guests if two or more heat-leaders were missing. The additional riders could be a combination of those doubling-up in the BPL and a number of substitute foreigners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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