21st century heathen Posted November 22, 2003 Report Share Posted November 22, 2003 OK it must be my turn by now. I'll leave out the expletives to save our mods the hassle of editing. WHAT THE **** WERE THEY SMOKING/DRINKING/SNIFFING WHEN THEY CAME UP WITH THIS ****!!!!!!!!!! THERE'S REASON THEY TELL YOU TO STAY OUT OF THE MIDDAY SUN!!!!!!!!! Right I feel able to type freely now. If you hadn't guessed I'm not 100% behind this one I totally respect the opinion of those that say give it a chance but...we are talking about a rule that just gives away points for absolutely no reason whatsoever. I do believe tha t/s it's former incarnation was generally just accepted because that's just the way it was. It was a little unfair on the lesser riders, particularly in heats 8 and 14. So why not introduce rule that says t/s can only be used in a race that's original line up includes at least one opposition heat leader. That way you wouldn't have Leigh against Jason B, and Robo (for eg) However if he fancied his chances he could come in against Billy in heat 10 (for eg) It still give the chasing team a chance to catch up without making it too easy. I like the GDTS because there is at least some extra worl involved that deserves the extra points. As we all know Greg/Billy are the only riders who should ever atempt it . Greg is a great team rider who can hold things up, and Billy in full flight will chase down anyone. If a pair can actually manage to get the rider from the back to the front, and the other rider still hangs on to second place...worth the extra points for me. Oh yeah, just in case I didn't make it clear... JOKER=PANTS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DW Posted November 22, 2003 Report Share Posted November 22, 2003 Having thought about it for a few days,I still don't like it!!! The promoters wanted to save money so this is their way of doing it.Why pay your top man extra money to replace a reserve when all you do is double his points in one heat at no extra cost!! Their official reason seems to be that they would have to change the race format,something that hasn't bothered them before. What was wrong with just increasing T/S after being 8 points down(I know they tried this before and was equally unpopular but...)? It will be interesting to see why they voted for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lioness Posted November 22, 2003 Report Share Posted November 22, 2003 Confirmation of the Committees contempt and lack of respect for the paying fan. All last season everywhere you looked, speedway star, internet, club programmes etc there was an avalanche of opinion AGAINST this ludicrous idea. Naturally they listen to the paying public and think 'sod 'em, lets really p... them off' Well can anyone else think of a reason they have been so bull headed? Either that or they live in planet cuckoo.....or wait a mo perhaps they really represent other sports and want to sicken us off with speedway so much we jump ship? Why not just be done with it and draw straws every week to see who wins? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted November 22, 2003 Report Share Posted November 22, 2003 Bringing the Golden Joker into league racing will probably mean most clubs will produce a slick track, which often leads to boring racing. It can be difficult enough at Poole to come from the behind when you start from the tapes, let alone 15 metres back. Too often, team managers will think 'it's too slick to do a Golden Joker', and as a result, the team losing won't claw back the defecit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grachan Posted November 22, 2003 Report Share Posted November 22, 2003 Peter, The Golden Joker (I'm cringeing even writing the name of the damn thing) doesn't start from 15 yards back but from the tapes. To get his double points takes no extra effort whatsoever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsunami Posted November 22, 2003 Report Share Posted November 22, 2003 I have heared that the GDTS is chosen for a rider that is already in that race. He receives the same fee as last year but his double points are not paid. This would mean that he will be racing against other riders he was already programmed to ride against and nobody looses a ride. On another tac, a rider must lose a ride if the TM replaces them with a reserve. Therefor all riders don't have 4 rides. Yes/No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted November 22, 2003 Report Share Posted November 22, 2003 The Golden Joker (I'm cringeing even writing the name of the damn thing) doesn't start from 15 yards back but from the tapes. To get his double points takes no extra effort whatsoever. Ah right. I must be getting mixed up with the GDTS. I've lost all track of the (stupid) rules that have been brought in and I try not to get too involved with the rules and regs as it's too complicated these days! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lioness Posted November 22, 2003 Report Share Posted November 22, 2003 I have heared that the GDTS is chosen for a rider that is already in that race. He receives the same fee as last year but his double points are not paid. This would mean that he will be racing against other riders he was already programmed to ride against and nobody looses a ride. I read it as being that way as well. However I too am confused about the rules of the GDTS from 15m. Some promoters are saying that the reason this ludicrous GD rule was introduced was to ensure that all riders had their 4 allocated rides. This surely cant be the case if you have the GDTS off 15m. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsunami Posted November 22, 2003 Report Share Posted November 22, 2003 Sorry to confuse. I heard that both Golden Joker and the GDTS is applied to riders in their programmed rides. They are not replacing anybody. In the GDTS the rider starts from 15m behind. Thats the way I heard it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted November 22, 2003 Report Share Posted November 22, 2003 I heard that both Golden Joker and the GDTS is applied to riders in their programmed rides. No, a Golden Double Tactical Substitute (as it's name, SUBSTITUTE suggests) means a rider replaces another rider. eg. Lemon replaced James Mann in heat 14 of Somerset vs Newport in the KoC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lioness Posted November 23, 2003 Report Share Posted November 23, 2003 Sorry to confuse.I heard that both Golden Joker and the GDTS is applied to riders in their programmed rides. They are not replacing anybody. In the GDTS the rider starts from 15m behind. Thats the way I heard it. If that was the case Tsunami then its effectively three GD's and one rider would be able to have two, albeit one from 15m back I wonder if the idiots who brought the rule in know yet or if they will just decide at the first meeting it happens in. You know, going off at a slight tangent, you have to feel for the referees. We all give them stick but is it any wonder they occassionally get the rules wrong when they dont appear to have been thought through or written down in the first place! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted November 23, 2003 Report Share Posted November 23, 2003 Is last years KoC a rider could only take a GDTS ride if he had not had a GD ride. So only one chance to get double points. Basically 3 different riders had to take the GD/GDTS rides, whether it remains that way, well, we'll just have to wait and see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Posted November 23, 2003 Report Share Posted November 23, 2003 Is last years KoC a rider could only take a GDTS ride if he had not had a GD ride. So only one chance to get double points. Wrong,Sean,Wilson,Andrew Moore,Garry Stead,Shane Parker and Leigh Lanham all took a GD from the tapes and from 15 meters back in the same meeting during Sheffield's various KO cup encounters. Atleast they've only allowed two GDs from the tapes instead of three,which I thought was abit much last year even if we did gain from it! If you want to email Neil Machin look on the official Tigers site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DW Posted November 23, 2003 Report Share Posted November 23, 2003 Certainly Les Collins did both types of tacticals last season at Berwick. I wonder if people also realise that the reserves MUST take a minimum of 4 rides next season(as reported in Glasgow Evening Times).So quite where you would fit a golden tactical sub in, is anyones guess!!! As I mentioned somewhere else,you will need 3 good heat leaders and a couple of good reserves,you won't need second strings!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoenix Posted November 23, 2003 Report Share Posted November 23, 2003 Now if the Promoters had to pay the rider scoring double points for those double points (get yourself a good Lawyer) I doubt we would ever see the rule used. I can hear the cash box slamming shut as I write this. I will have to get my wife to fill in the program now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbieh25 Posted November 23, 2003 Report Share Posted November 23, 2003 I never liked the golden joker its not like you have to do anything special to get double points ,all you have to do is make the gate it does not make it any more exciting like the golden double were the rider starts behind the others . And get rid of tac subs I always thought it was quite interesting try to work out were managers were going to bring in tac subs when there were behind . To discribe it in 1 word PANTS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon Posted November 23, 2003 Report Share Posted November 23, 2003 I have heared that the GDTS is chosen for a rider that is already in that race. He receives the same fee as last year but his double points are not paid. This would mean that he will be racing against other riders he was already programmed to ride against and nobody looses a ride. I read it as being that way as well. However I too am confused about the rules of the GDTS from 15m. Some promoters are saying that the reason this ludicrous GD rule was introduced was to ensure that all riders had their 4 allocated rides. This surely cant be the case if you have the GDTS off 15m. Some promoters are saying that the reason this ludicrous GD rule was introduced was to ensure that all riders had their 4 allocated rides. From what i heared tonight from Tim Stone this rule was brought in by the EL to keep one team in the EL!!!. before the agm 3 EL teams whated to leave the EL. after Swindon & Arena said they would move up only one whated to leave(all of this due to costs). By the look off it this was an antemt to cut costs. Which is why the PL Ratified it by the look of it. He wouldent say who that EL team was Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Posted November 23, 2003 Report Share Posted November 23, 2003 speedwayplus.co.uk Some of the rules aren't a bad idea,I quite like the 'Here Come the Belgians' one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace_of_clubs Posted November 24, 2003 Report Share Posted November 24, 2003 speedwayplus.co.uk Some of the rules aren't a bad idea,I quite like the 'Here Come the Belgians' one I'm OK with them all except the last one which quite frankly is too silly for words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lioness Posted November 24, 2003 Report Share Posted November 24, 2003 Hysterical! I propose we immediately start a campaign to haveStuart Hall officially appointed head of the BSPA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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