rabbit Posted November 20, 2003 Report Share Posted November 20, 2003 If you and other EL fans want to try it, fine I repect that but if at the end of the season (or much faster I suspect) you also hate it, please expect an awful lot of I told you sos I can live with that Star Lady. If I do hate it I'll be more than happy to come on here and publicly say so and if people want to gloat then whatever makes them happy. I've never been one who's afraid to admit I was wrong. Of course being a woman it doesn't happen that often... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trees Posted November 20, 2003 Report Share Posted November 20, 2003 It's a damned annoying rule if your team is well in front, great for fans of the opposing team tho. It's got to make matches closer and therefore you would think more exciting but whether it will make the racing closer and have them passing I know not ................ (which is the most important thing to me). I'm in the enviable position of not really bothering too much if my own team win or not as long as i've seen a good meeting and a complete and utter neutral as far as the EL goes as long as, again, they are exciting tv matches Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sir Lunchalot Posted November 20, 2003 Report Share Posted November 20, 2003 I'm sure smart team managers will find a way around the Golden Joker rule. Look out next year for strange engine failures etc when teams get to 6 or 7 points in front to stop them going 8 points ahead. I'm very cynical, I believe the rule has been bought in purely for Sky TV. They don't want one sided matches if possible so in comes this rule to potentially give matches new life (and the commentators something else to talk about when matches get one sided). Shame they can't have one system of scoring for TV meetings and leave the other meetings alone !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Star Lady Posted November 20, 2003 Report Share Posted November 20, 2003 I'm in the enviable position of not really bothering too much if my own team win or not as long as i've seen a good meeting and a complete and utter neutral as far as the EL goes as long as, again, they are exciting tv matches I agree Trees, I would far rather lose and see decent racing than win and watch processions. The pity is Sky seem to think it's a good meeting if the score is close which you and I both know is absolute balderdash. Now there's a thought was this double golden double thing brought it to appease Sky cos it will lead to closer scores and in their eyes closer matches Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted November 20, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2003 If it does stay one big problem I had in the KOC was sometimes did not know when it was been done and therefore messed all the scores up! You could get to heat 15 not knowing who has won! Explain that to a new support! Will probably see the golden helmet cover coming in so we know At least with the tac sub the scores where still equal and with the golden double from 15 yards back you could easliy tell! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbo Posted November 20, 2003 Report Share Posted November 20, 2003 It's a damned annoying rule if your team is well in front, great for fans of the opposing team tho. It's got to make matches closer and therefore you would think more exciting but whether it will make the racing closer and have them passing I know not ................ (which is the most important thing to me). I'm in the enviable position of not really bothering too much if my own team win or not as long as i've seen a good meeting and a complete and utter neutral as far as the EL goes as long as, again, they are exciting tv matches But....If your team is losing by loads and the tatical works I won't be complaining!. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Witch Posted November 20, 2003 Report Share Posted November 20, 2003 Nothing to do with wanting it introduced, just nothing against it being introduced - subtle difference and the reason 'people like me and Lanzilla' are probably saying we'll give it a go. I'm more than happy to give it a go too. Though reading some comments on this and other threads reminds me why I gave up using this Forum as a "discussion board" a while ago!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Andrew- Posted November 20, 2003 Report Share Posted November 20, 2003 bit of a joke, but like it or lump it its here to stay. still on ure soap box rabs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevH Posted November 20, 2003 Report Share Posted November 20, 2003 We need to find out who supported this rule change and get them to change their minds before the rule is ratified. Why not ask them why they supported the rule change first - then contemplate - then decide? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevH Posted November 20, 2003 Report Share Posted November 20, 2003 Though reading some comments on this and other threads reminds me why I gave up using this Forum as a "discussion board" a while ago!! Now that you've been reminded LW, remind us all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevH Posted November 20, 2003 Report Share Posted November 20, 2003 If I do hate it I'll be more than happy to come on here and publicly say so and if people want to gloat then whatever makes them happy. I've never been one who's afraid to admit I was wrong. Of course being a woman it doesn't happen that often... I'll support that - Rabbit has already been "man" enough to admit publically that she was wrong recently, and all credit to her for doing so Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Stranger Posted November 21, 2003 Report Share Posted November 21, 2003 ******LATEST NEWS***** New Rule from the F.A. Football's new Golden Joke rule has been developed from the fast growing sport of Speedway. Your post cheered me up no-end Speedy-Star Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Addy Posted November 21, 2003 Report Share Posted November 21, 2003 If I do hate it I'll be more than happy to come on here and publicly say so and if people want to gloat then whatever makes them happy. I've never been one who's afraid to admit I was wrong. Of course being a woman it doesn't happen that often... I'll support that - Rabbit has already been "man" enough to admit publically that she was wrong recently, and all credit to her for doing so KEV If Bunny was man enough ... then I should worry about your eyesight , Kevy. a very attractive woman you have missed (par for the course maybe ) mind you her opinion may be spot on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevH Posted November 21, 2003 Report Share Posted November 21, 2003 Addy - did you not see the inverted commas each side of man? Even if you didn't, the references to she and her should have given it away! Indeed she is a very attractive (and intelligent) woman (despite her like/dislike of certain riders ) which hopefully shows my eyesight is fine........................... what exactly is your point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Addy Posted November 21, 2003 Report Share Posted November 21, 2003 (edited) Addy - did you not see the inverted commas each side of man? Even if you didn't, the references to she and her should have given it away! Indeed she is a very attractive (and intelligent) woman (despite her like/dislike of certain riders ) which hopefully shows my eyesight is fine........................... what exactly is your point? Not like you to misunderstand Mr. Hammond ... Edited November 21, 2003 by Addy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Star Fever Posted November 21, 2003 Report Share Posted November 21, 2003 When you think about it, theres not really a lot of difference between the new and old rules - they both help a losing team to catch up - BUT if a losing team actually manages to WIN using the NEW rules, then they will have deserved it, as it is a lot harder to do so from programmed rides IMO. Even the nominated GD has merit, as the rider has to come from a handicap, and rely on his team-mate to do the business as well. After the initial outbursts by the "what a daft name for a TS" and " I can't add numbers bigger than 5" factions its now good to see a lot of people on here willing to give the GTs a chance after thinking it over. Oh and RacerX, yes I was wide awake during the KOCup thank-you, and most enjoyable it was too, as I did indeed mention in my post. And yes, both NORMAL and GT type tacticals served Lynn well throughout the season (as surely they did for most teams), so....what was your point again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racer X Posted November 21, 2003 Report Share Posted November 21, 2003 (edited) When you think about it, theres not really a lot of difference between the new and old rules - they both help a losing team to catch up - BUT if a losing team actually manages to WIN using the NEW rules, then they will have deserved it, as it is a lot harder to do so from programmed rides IMO. Even the nominated GD has merit, as the rider has to come from a handicap, and rely on his team-mate to do the business as well. After the initial outbursts by the "what a daft name for a TS" and " I can't add numbers bigger than 5" factions its now good to see a lot of people on here willing to give the GTs a chance after thinking it over. Oh and RacerX, yes I was wide awake during the KOCup thank-you, and most enjoyable it was too, as I did indeed mention in my post. And yes, both NORMAL and GT type tacticals served Lynn well throughout the season (as surely they did for most teams), so....what was your point again? I agree about the Golden Double Tac Sub - the extra points won there (inevitably from heat 2 or 14) will be justified, the rider would have had to work hard to get from last to first. I realise there is opposition to GDTS as well - but I like these. I do not like Golden Jokers because suddenly a rider gets double points for no extra effort. It makes meetings artificially close especially on fair tracks and will hand a huge and unfair advantage to team with good top ends. It is patently un fair for a team being well beaten to come back and even win a meeting courtesy of having three very good heat leaders. This will happen next year if the rule goes ahead. Teams will be able to come back from a big deficit as they have big heat leaders. All round teams normally fearful of heat 13 could face losing the race 8-1 and then lose heat 15 5-1 and lose a meeting they led by ten points due to the performance of two good opposition riders. If you think that this is fair Star Fever the fair enough, I don't think its fair and I feel the average fan will end up feeling cheated. Seen the poll latey Star Fever - no amount of rolling eyes will ever make up for a bankrupt arguement. Edited November 21, 2003 by Racer X Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritPete Posted November 21, 2003 Report Share Posted November 21, 2003 BUT, skysports just love that old joker!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace_of_clubs Posted November 21, 2003 Report Share Posted November 21, 2003 I agree about the Golden Double Tac Sub - the extra points won there (inevitably from heat 8 or 14) will be justified, the rider would have had to work hard to get from last to first. I realise there is opposition to GDTS as well - but I like these. I do not like Golden Jokers because suddenly a rider gets double points for no extra effort. I agree with you entirely RacerX. Personally I don't like the Golden Tactical and would probably do away with that too, but at least I can see some logic behind it. Fans get the added value of seeing a rider come in and have to work for the extra points and the entertainment of seeing him come from behind. The golden joke has no added value, no extra entertainment. Its exactly the same race as programmed, just that some extra points are gifted to the losing side for no reason at all except to make the score artificially closer. Make no mistake. There is no added value, no added entertainment, nothing for the paying fans at all, nothing for the armchair sky fans either. IT IS PURELY AN ATTEMPT TO CUT COSTS. (and a flawed one at that - as the riders will just demand increased points money to compensate for the missing tac sub ride which they're not getting). When Belle Vue visit an away track will the locals say "Oh goody we get to see Neil Collins take his full rides rather than watching Jason Crump once more. And its OK because BV were given 3 extra points for nothing when Crump had his last ride." Will fans enjoy watching an extra ride from Ales Dryml instead of a Tony Rickardsson T/S when Poole come visiting? Rather watch Jason Bunyan than Andreas Jonsson? Magnus Karlsson instead of Peter Karlsson? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grachan Posted November 21, 2003 Report Share Posted November 21, 2003 I am completely horrified that they are doing this, though not completetly surprised as I felt a pang of fear last year after reading in Speedway Star how 'delighted' they were with it's 'success'. It's unbelievable. Did they not notice the groans that went through the crowds whenever it was used? I just can't see any reason why they think it is a good idea. For a while there I was quite tempted to pop over to Swindon a few times to have a look at the EL Robins, but my enthusiasm has rapidly taken a dive again. I really am pissed off about this. It's idiocy like this that dampened my enthusiasm for speedway in the first place and they've done it again. Will someone point the fools in charge in the direction of this thread so they can see what people really think, or do they not care? How can you explain this one to a first time supporter? I think I saw two matches last year where this was used, and in one of them I had the wrong score for a couple of races having missed the announcement. These were two leg matches where the ONLY justification I could think of was that at least it evened out over two legs. Now we're talking about league points I can't even use that excuse on myself. Has this been approved after consulting a few dumb team managers without the brain power to work out good tactical moves? Tactical substitutes were always a bit of an odd one, but at least it was fun looking through a programme and trying to pre-empt tactical moves and use a bit of tactical thinking. Now it's just 'ooops. 8 down, double the points'. I hate this decision. Oh God, somebody call me a doctor. (Posts of 'You're a doctor' will be summararily ignored). Aaaaaaargghhhh!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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