Adder Posted November 20, 2003 Report Share Posted November 20, 2003 Is it do that riders involved in a Golden Tactical ride have to wear big pointy black shoes and have the oppo fans throwing wet sponges at them as they circum-navigate the track? Chicken George, you can just get yourself back to Ringfind! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulboy Posted November 20, 2003 Report Share Posted November 20, 2003 The way I understand it is that two riders can be nominated to score double points in one heat (each) and the Golden Double (30 metres back) remains in operation as before. Not sure if one rider can have a Golden Joker (if thats what its called) and Double. I'm guessing that those suggesting the riders must be nominated before the start of a meeting are just on a wind up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace_of_clubs Posted November 20, 2003 Report Share Posted November 20, 2003 Are the nominated riders only allowed to go for double in their programmed rides Yes. The ludicrous Golden Joker rule is that if you are 8 points behind at any stage you can nominate one of the programmed riders in the next heat to score double points. (you can't bring in a rider to do the joker). So from your Poole point of view, if you are away and go 8 points down at heat 8, with Rickardsson out for his easiest ride of the night in heat 9, you can just say we'll play our joker on Rickardsson and collect 6 points instead of three. There is also the option to do the Golden Tactical where you bring in a replacement rider and he starts 15m back and scores double points. You can use the joker twice, and the Golden tactical once. No other tac subs of any kind are permitted. Its pathetic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackofdiamonds Posted November 20, 2003 Report Share Posted November 20, 2003 nononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononon. Tac subs have never been a problem, do you know of anyone who has complained about them in the past? The new introductions are just our masters trying to be trendy. If 92% of concerned and sensible supporters are against it surely this message must get back to them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regandeddie Posted November 20, 2003 Report Share Posted November 20, 2003 According to my calculations, this rule means that it will be possible to win a match using just 3 riders, With just 3 heat leaders, it works like this... Heat 1. Home no.1 wins, opp. riders 2nd and 3rd 3-3 Heat 2. No home riders turn up, opp. win heat 5-0 3-8 Heat 3 Home no.3 wins, opp. 2nd and 3rd (3-3) 6-11 Heat 4 Home no. 5 wins , " " " " 9-14 Heat 5 Home no. 3 wins ," " " " 12-17 Heat 6 Home no. 1 wins ....................... 15-20 Heat 7 Home no. 5 wins ....................... 18-23 Heat 8 No home riders opp. win heat 5-0 18-28 Heat 9 as the home side are behind by more than 8 points, their lone rider (no.3) is nominated as the golden joke® and wins for a 6-3 heat advantage 24-31 Heat 10 Home no.1 wins (3-3) 27-34 Heat 11 Home no. 5 wins......................................... 30-37 Heat 12 Home no.3 wins...........................................33-40 Heat 13 In their first pairing together, no.1 + 5 score a terrific 5-1!!!! 38-41 Heat14 Using the rider replacement rule, the lowest ranked heat leader rides in the place of a second string. and wins. (3-3) 41-44 Heat 15 The home pair score a 5-1 46-45 Now that's just plain silliness, but may be useful when you've got 4 riders injured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rabbit Posted November 20, 2003 Report Share Posted November 20, 2003 Yes. The ludicrous Golden Joker rule is that if you are 8 points behind at any stage you can nominate one of the programmed riders in the next heat to score double points. (you can't bring in a rider to do the joker). Thanks AoC for the clarification. As far as I can see its swings and roundabouts - riders will still have to go out and win their races to get the points on offer. Looks like I'm just going to be one of the 10% who don't have a problem with this new rule.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted November 20, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2003 Oh and i reckon its good that all riders will get at least 4 rides Agree with 4 rides, it annoyed me a bit when the reserve was taken out of heat 8 and for the other team the reserve was up against the top riders was totally unfair but it IMO it does not make giving points away to the other team any better. What happens when the heat leader who has been picked for the double points is behind his team mate… Answer we get up to two races which are not racing as the other riders will slow right down to let the double pointer pass him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted November 20, 2003 Report Share Posted November 20, 2003 To my mind the great problem with this Golden Double/Joker etc is that it can positively encourage race fixing I can't see this one to be honest? So people fix races so you drop 8 points down to use a GD thats not so easy to win as its in your programmed ride YET nobody ever did it (TRick vs cov in play off!!!) to stay 6 or to drop 6 points behind in the past did they?! The only problem with this rule for me is basically, it can only be used twice(why not allow every rider to try a GD if you're 8 points down?) and the fact it's mickey mouse as you get double points but then I guess to an outsider a rider getting an extra ride could be mickey mouse. I'm starting to think I may have been a bit harsh yesterday, there are certainly a lot of problems and someone will find lots of loop-holes but dare I say it, we all said speedway needed to change, it was/is failing to draw people in, this might just do it, prehaps we should ask a few people what they think. Just to see how these rules work I might try and run a few meetings with these rules and see how things work. Though it's always hard running meeting on a simulation programme as you rarely get a Sheffield vs Newport type meeting where Sheffield give Newport a kicking but then they're always going to be big wins I guess, it's the close meeting that matter. Come to think of it, Newport would have loved this rule this year the way we started meetings!!! With the GD rule you need a strong top 3 but with the no guest rule I think you need to have a strong 1-7 so it will be intreting to see what works best. I think injuries will be even more important this year than in other years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pirate Posted November 20, 2003 Report Share Posted November 20, 2003 Rabbit, it's both. Normal (6pt down) taccy subs have been removed and replaced with 2 Golden Jokers. However, the Golden Double Tactical Substitute still exists so there is nothing to stop a team trailing by 8 at heat 14 to replace their reserve with the top man. This (GDTS) can only be used once. In theory someone could get a 6 ride 24 point maximum!!! My concern is that both Golden Jokers can be used in the same race....a 10-1 anybody? Here's a hypothetical situation if both GJ's can be used in the same race. Your team is up 45-27 after 12 races...looks a fairly easy win. Heat 13 and your opponents bring in 2 GJ's and get a 10-1 (unlikely but possible). Score is 46-37. Heat 14 and their top guy comes in for a reserve as a GDTS and the opponents get an 8-1. Score is 47-45. All of a sudden it's a last heat decider! Good thing or bad thing, you decide. It makes me think scores could be manipulated to stop opponents using a golden joker/gdts but wasn't this also true of tactical substitutions? Can GJ's be used in heat 15? Could a team who was 8 down entering heat 15 (46-38) nominate two GJ's, get a 10-1 and win 48-47????? Similarly, could a team trailing 47-31 with 2 races left actually get a draw? 8-1 in heat 14 with the GDTS and a 10-1 in heat 15 with GJ x 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAD 3:16 Posted November 20, 2003 Report Share Posted November 20, 2003 Well i thought next season new people to our great sport might be able to take it seriously, the golden joker is what it is called a joke!!. Well done BSPA yet another nail in our coffin!! Holla if ya hear me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted November 20, 2003 Report Share Posted November 20, 2003 Pirate, I think we're alright, last year you coud only do one GD/GDTS per heat so 8-1 was the best availiable, luckily. Lets just hope when they write the rules they don't forget add this bit to the rules or we'll see a few annoyed and upset people! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanzilla Posted November 20, 2003 Report Share Posted November 20, 2003 I don't have a problem with this new ruling and i'm all for guys getting their full allocation of rides. As has already been said,the guys still have to go out and win the races and imagine the stick they'll get from the opposition fans when they fail. I think this ruling will help keep some meetings alive and it is more for the benefit of the televised meetings to make them look more exciting. Any fan out there watching there Team fall 8 points behind in a match, will be only too happy to see their number one rider used a Joker and score double points. It's swings and roundabouts for me cos the guys who would have been Tac Subbed under the old system will still take their rides and probably fail to score anyway. I say give it a chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suzuki star 882 Posted November 20, 2003 Report Share Posted November 20, 2003 Very poor decision, obviously the fans dont count anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racer X Posted November 20, 2003 Report Share Posted November 20, 2003 I don't have a problem with this new ruling and i'm all for guys getting their full allocation of rides.As has already been said,the guys still have to go out and win the races and imagine the stick they'll get from the opposition fans when they fail. I think this ruling will help keep some meetings alive and it is more for the benefit of the televised meetings to make them look more exciting. Any fan out there watching there Team fall 8 points behind in a match, will be only too happy to see their number one rider used a Joker and score double points. It's swings and roundabouts for me cos the guys who would have been Tac Subbed under the old system will still take their rides and probably fail to score anyway. I say give it a chance. Lanzilla - I'm sorry but I have a real problem with opinions like yours. We in the PL HAVE given this a chance. We have had an entire PL KO Cup grounded in this competition and even the IoW (who were the winners) didn't even really like it, so how can you say give this achance when we already have???? Do all of you EL fans have such a superiority complex that you completely disregard what us PL fans have to say after experiencing this rule???? Cos that's what it feels like!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I hope that the PL Promoters if nothing else can get this reversed. I know Reading voted against this and so (I assume) would have Sheffield. We need to find out who supported this rule change and get them to change their minds before the rule is ratified. Mr Pearson - your "successful" golden double rule is not being echoed by the fans on this forum. The question is do you have the courage to admit this???????????? Or are you a complete puppet??? The fans deserve to be listened to on this point. It is a massive majority against this rule - not just a few votes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rabbit Posted November 20, 2003 Report Share Posted November 20, 2003 (edited) Lanzilla - I'm sorry but I have a real problem with opinions like yours. We in the PL HAVE given this a chance. We have had an entire PL KO Cup grounded in this competition and even the IoW (who were the winners) didn't even really like it, so how can you say give this achance when we already have???? Do all of you EL fans have such a superiority complex that you completely disregard what us PL fans have to say after experiencing this rule???? Cos that's what it feels like!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And I've got a problem with comments like that!!! So what if people are saying they don't mind this new ruling - it's their opinion and I'm standing in the 'give it a go' court too. You got a problem with me also? You've made it quite clear in numerous posts today what your thoughts are on this but don't have a go at those of us for having differing views. Its nothing to do with disregarding what you have to say (you've left us in no doubt) but I think we're all big enough and ugly enough to make our own minds up on this without being told what to think thanks! You carry on your campaign to get it thrown out but leave those of us who are happy to wait and see how it works for ourselves to have our say! Just because it wasn't to you liking doesn't mean we all have to roll over and agree with you! Edited November 20, 2003 by rabbit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racer X Posted November 20, 2003 Report Share Posted November 20, 2003 Lanzilla - I'm sorry but I have a real problem with opinions like yours. We in the PL HAVE given this a chance. We have had an entire PL KO Cup grounded in this competition and even the IoW (who were the winners) didn't even really like it, so how can you say give this achance when we already have???? Do all of you EL fans have such a superiority complex that you completely disregard what us PL fans have to say after experiencing this rule???? Cos that's what it feels like!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And I've got a problem with comments like that!!! So what if people are saying they don't mind this new ruling - it's their opinion and I'm standing in the 'give it a go' court too. You got a problem with me also? You've made it quite clear in numerous posts today what your thoughts are on this but don't have a go at those of us for having differing views. Its nothing to do with disregarding what you have to say (you've left us in no doubt) but I think we're all big enough and ugly enough to make our own minds up on this without being told what to think thanks! You carry on your campaign to get it thrown out but leave those of us who are happy to wait and see how it works for ourselves to have our say! Just because it wasn't to you liking doesn't mean we all have to roll over and agree with you! Of course I have because we in the PL HAVE given it a go yet people like you and Lanzilla appear to give no regard to our opinions. I can have a go at you just as you can have a go at me - I have never claimed anything else. I have never said that people like you don't deserve to be heard - indeed I have even asked for justifications why you people want this rule to be introduced and I am still waiting for a decent arguement. I notice that you can't come up with one (something better than give it a chance perhaps?) - so why not try instead of slagging me off??? -ier than you mate!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Stranger Posted November 20, 2003 Report Share Posted November 20, 2003 I have never had a problem with the Golden Double cos if a rider started 15 metres back, had a skillful team mate who sucessfully held up the opposition, and he won the race, then he deserved to get double points. But IMO this Golden Joker is just crazy Okay, maybe the rider nominated as the Joker won't necessarily win the race, but I still feel that this rule is probably more unfair on a team who are in the lead through solid 1-7 scoring than the tac-sub rule was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rabbit Posted November 20, 2003 Report Share Posted November 20, 2003 (edited) Nothing to do with wanting it introduced, just nothing against it being introduced - subtle difference and the reason 'people like me and Lanzilla' are probably saying we'll give it a go. It's still a chance for teams to get back on terms however it's dressed up. If my team's down and has a chance to get back in it I'm not bothered if it's a Golden Double, Joker or Middlo doing a nudey lap round Wimborne Rd on a bike - as long as the racing is good and the entertainment is there it frankly doesnt bother me. I think it's a fairer system to have riders try this in programmed rides rather than shove out a number one rider over a reserve in a heat over and above the scheduled rides who 9 times out of 10 has no chance. They've still got to win the race and besides we've had the GD for a while now and we're quite used to seeing that now and then with its double points. Ok so the PL have given it a go. We established you didn't like it. I respect that and taken it onboard and maybe at the end of the day we won't like it either. But then again maybe we will.... But I'll make my own mind up when I've seen it in action (call me daft but I like to see things for myself before forming opinions - maybe its a female thing). I've said my piece..I'm not against it. The End. Not quite sure where I'm slagging you off though 'mate'!!! Edited November 20, 2003 by rabbit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanzilla Posted November 20, 2003 Report Share Posted November 20, 2003 Racer X you are fully entitled to your opinion on this ruling and i have to be honest and say that i hadn't taken much notice of the Premier League KO Cup last season. I'm still happy to see how it pans out next season and i'm sure that now it has been rubber stamped it is here to stay for at least another season,so why get your Knickers in a twist over it? I certainly don't have a superiority complex about the Elite League,it just happens that the club i support is in it and that's what i choose to watch. A lot of us didn't see this ruling in action last season and that's why i'm prepared to wait and see. Yes i am aware of many opinions that are against it and i respect those.I just happen to have a more open minded approach to it myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Star Lady Posted November 20, 2003 Report Share Posted November 20, 2003 I respect that and taken it onboard and maybe at the end of the day we won't like it either. Rabbit maybe we PL fans would not be quite so annoyed if the Bloody Stupid Pratts Association hadn't launched this idea by saying it was welcomed by the fans when it was clear to anyone with any intelligence that the vast majority of fans who watched matches when it occured HATED it. If you and other EL fans want to try it, fine I repect that but if at the end of the season (or much faster I suspect) you also hate it, please expect an awful lot of I told you sos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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