Bspa Agm 2004 News Here!

[Shoddy]

Some valid points and as a fan of one of the bigger PL clubs who have no interest in going top flight (rightly so at the moment in my opinion) I think the Elite needs to get its house in better order.

 

The grading system is a way of trying to do this and well done for that. The fact that rich teams will start the season with an advantage though cannot be seen as a good thing. We will just move towards a scenario like Man U, Chelsea and Arsenal in football. Certain teams will have their pick of the cream and after those it will all be about keeping costs down and the sport running at their club.

 

The grading system looks to cause exactly the same scenario that dropping the points limit in the PL would have. Improving riders averaging the top end of a grade will be like gold dust and top sides will overpay them to get them. Costs won't be cut for team that win things and other sides will not be on a level playing field.

 

It is always slightly like this anyway (and why not?) but a reduced points limit and a cap on heat leader strength has exactly the same effect but at least all sides start roughly equal.

 

If this just stays for one season then how can more teams look to move up next year and keep expanding the EL. If it is not a success they won't do it and the top teams appear to be ensuring they will stay that way so why would a side like Sheffield want to move up? Be a successful PL side with good income or a mid to lower EL side with at best the same?

 

I hope it succeeds as I think all teams in all sports should be aspiring to get as high as they can and this is not happening in speedway at the moment. Fingers crossed but this doesn't look like the solution.

[Grachan]

One thing that could arise if the grading system carries on into the following year is riders who are on borderline averages at the bottom of their grade miraculously losing a couple of points to drop into a lower grade and make it easier to secure a team place for the following year, or to help getting a stronger team.

 

I'm sure this sort of thing could happen. I remember a certain Swindon rider a few years back had already decided to drop down into the lower division the following year. To do so he needed to average below 6 points, and in his last race of the season he needed 1 point to be below 6. If he scored 2 points he would have been over 6. He was cruising round for his point when the rider in second had an engine failure on the last lap. Cue the worst last bend of all time, followed by looking over the shoulder to make sure the guy in last place got past, thus ensuring 1 point instead of 2. It was so obvious it was hilarious.

[Racer X]

One thing that could arise if the grading system carries on into the following year is riders who are on borderline averages at the bottom of their grade miraculously losing a couple of points to drop into a lower grade and make it easier to secure a team place for the following year, or to help getting a stronger team.

 

I'm sure this sort of thing could happen. I remember a certain Swindon rider a few years back had already decided to drop down into the lower division the following year. To do so he needed to average below 6 points, and in his last race of the season he needed 1 point to be below 6. If he scored 2 points he would have been over 6. He was cruising round for his point when the rider in second had an engine failure on the last lap. Cue the worst last bend of all time, followed by looking over the shoulder to make sure the guy in last place got past, thus ensuring 1 point instead of 2. It was so obvious it was hilarious.

Back on page six I suggested the very same thing Grachan, I would have thought that there was every danger of this happening.

 

Maybe the averages which govern grades will be flexed from season to season?

It would be a shockingly bad idea to keep the average grades the same from year to year as there is bound to be wholesale fiddling.

 

I wonder whether Charlie Gjedde (8.09 official EL average) will be given a higher grade than Mark Loram (7.86 down to 7.66 with the 2.5% reduction).

May seem to be a rider where some discretion about grading is needed?

[Grachan]

So you did. We've really got to stop agreeing like this Racer X!

 

It's an interesting point about Gjedde/Loram, particularly as a lot of Charlie's points came from reserve. The problem is, give discretion on one rider and everyone will start wanting it.

 

With Charlie Gjedde, though, presumably he'll be based on his PL average from last year. Averages still seem the best way of selecting riders' grades, even though they are far from perfect.

[Racer X]

So you did. We've really got to stop agreeing like this Racer X!

 

It's an interesting point about Gjedde/Loram, particularly as a lot of Charlie's points came from reserve. The problem is, give discretion on one rider and everyone will start wanting it.

 

With Charlie Gjedde, though, presumably he'll be based on his PL average from last year. Averages still seem the best way of selecting riders' grades, even though they are far from perfect.

I still hope they grde riders coming into the EL from the PL on their PL average.

To me it seems the fairest thing and "rewards" those who did take the trouble to race EL.

 

And yes, you are quite correct that a lot of Charlie's rides were earned from reserve.

A rider like Charlie should be a prized asset not a white elephant if he's lumbered with a grading he will struggle to match.

 

Chris Harris is another - 7.05/6.87 - who could benefit from some leeway in this respect.

(You had better Bee-lieve that there's yet another track up for his services..)

[martin palmer]

PL or EL average....a very interesting question, and one that I shall be putting to Waggy tomorrow night at the Oxford Forum. In this new structure, guys like Shields, Harris, Bjerre, and Gjedde, could well establish themselves as proper Heatleaders, so it will be an interesting debate.

[Tsunami]

RacerX

 

I dont think there will be any fixing of averages. There will need to be flexible grades as the number of riders in each band have got to just exceed the requirement. At the end of the season riders will not know what the band is so only the normal dropping of average will be evident !!!!

 

The other point is that it does not necessarily mean that teams will always go with the highest average in each band to maximise their 'points total'. Up and coming riders to the bottom of the band could still be a better bet than a rider in decline who is top of the band. At the end of the day now. it is not a case of getting the highest averages but getting the best improving riders.

 

:rolleyes:

[Star Lady]

Just found this on the Peterboro website

 

* * * * * * *

Peterborough Speedway promoter Mick Horton has made the decision to postpone the scheduled Fans Forum due to take pace next Wednesday 3rd December at ‘Ebeneezers’ in the City.

 

This is in view of an extraordinary meeting of the Elite League Management Committee that has been called for Monday week, 8th December.

Horton feels that it is only right and proper that fans of Peterborough Speedway are given the most up to the date information available and are not misled by any information relayed at this stage that may alter once the forthcoming Promoters meeting has been held.

 

A new date will be announced shortly.

 

* * * * * * * *

 

Does this mean the BSPA have been reading this and other forums and realised their new rules are fundamentally flawed???

[lupus]

Uh-oh!!! Look Out!!! I can see Colin Pratt's toys flying out of the pram from here!!! What's the betting we're in for a repeat of 1995!!!

 

You heard it here first!!!!!!

Edited November 28, 2003 by lupus

[Gemini]

Lupus...Why don't you give it a rest now about Colin Pratt and your fixation with Coventry. He wasn't the one who held the others to ransom in Tenerife.

If the promoter's are having second thoughts about the new rules they are introducing then perhaps at long last they are taking notice of what the fans have been saying.

[21st century heathen]

Lupus...Why don't you give it a rest now about Colin Pratt and your fixation with Coventry,and Cradley. He wasn't the one who held the others to ransom in Tenerife.

If the promoter's are having second thoughts about the new rules they are introducing then perhaps at long last they are taking notice of what the fans have been saying.

Here, here!!! The first time was funny, second time was mildly amusing...now it's a bit Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

 

Can the unthinkable happen? Have they really taken on board what we have to say? Damn! I was just about to organise a mass walk out of the first match next season.

 

POWER TO THE PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

probably shouldn't get too cocky yet

[KevH]

What's the betting we're in for a repeat of 1995!!!

If that means the Promoters accepting that they've got it wrong and changing things, then that has got to be a good thing - let's hope they are big enough to admit they've made mistakes and rectify them.

[lupus]

What's the betting we're in for a repeat of 1995!!! 

If that means the Promoters accepting that they've got it wrong and changing things, then that has got to be a good thing - let's hope they are big enough to admit they've made mistakes and rectify them.

I'm all for them changing their mind but not if it means that the 'new' teams can't get any decnet riders whilst 'other' teams - I'm not ALLOWED to mention who - are sooooooo desparate to win something, they get their own way and keep their heat leaders!!!

 

If it can be gauranteed that Arena and Swindon (and Ipswich..... AND Oxford) can get two 8+ point riders to compete wih those who've already GOT this, then I say fine - however if it's only being done because certain promoters (who I CAN'T name ) want to gain an advantage NO MATTER WHAT, then I have severe reservations to say the least!!!

 

I have NO problems with then changing the damn stupid GD rule - or even looking again at how the grading will work but whatever they decide should be in the best interests of the sport, not just the select few who kick up the biggest stink!!!!

 

Gemini and Heathen - The problem is that Mr Pratt has been one of the worst examples of 'shrewd management'/'rule manipulation'/'bending of the rules'/'cheating' (delete as necessary dependant upon the tint of you glasses) over the last 20 or so years. Is it any wonder that I suspect him whenever anything of this ilk arises?!!!

[goggles]

 

if it means they're not going to put 3 or 4 top class riders out of work, bring it on!!!

[Gemini]

If it can be gauranteed that Arena and Swindon (and Ipswich..... AND Oxford) can get two 8+ point riders to compete wih those who've already GOT this, then I say fine -

And I would say fine as well, as long as Coventry have got two 8+ riders too. I can't see anything wrong in teams having two riders from groups A and B if there are enough to go round. See....we are agreeing again. I think we were all prepared to lose one top rider to another team anyway so that's no big deal.

I just think it is ridiculous to bring on a rider like BJ, but as soon as he improves to heat leader status we have to let him go.

By the way, I'm not desperate for Bees to win anything as I don't take Speedway seriously.

I think CVS has summed the situation up perfectly by his remarks in this week's Speedway Star......"The traditional Speedway fan hates change, but we have to think of the new audience, the TV audience." So there we have it - Speedway the new "It's a Knockout."

I have NO problems with then changing the damn stupid GD rule - or even looking again at how the grading will work but whatever they decide should be in the best interests of the sport, not just the select few who kick up the biggest stink!!!!

And you would know this is Colin Pratt I presume?

Edited November 29, 2003 by Gemini

[Dave Jones]

What's the betting we're in for a repeat of 1995!!! 

If that means the Promoters accepting that they've got it wrong and changing things, then that has got to be a good thing - let's hope they are big enough to admit they've made mistakes and rectify them.

I'm all for them changing their mind but not if it means that the 'new' teams can't get any decnet riders whilst 'other' teams - I'm not ALLOWED to mention who - are sooooooo desparate to win something, they get their own way and keep their heat leaders!!!

 

If it can be gauranteed that Arena and Swindon (and Ipswich..... AND Oxford) can get two 8+ point riders to compete wih those who've already GOT this, then I say fine - however if it's only being done because certain promoters (who I CAN'T name ) want to gain an advantage NO MATTER WHAT, then I have severe reservations to say the least!!!

 

I have NO problems with then changing the damn stupid GD rule - or even looking again at how the grading will work but whatever they decide should be in the best interests of the sport, not just the select few who kick up the biggest stink!!!!

 

Gemini and Heathen - The problem is that Mr Pratt has been one of the worst examples of 'shrewd management'/'rule manipulation'/'bending of the rules'/'cheating' (delete as necessary dependant upon the tint of you glasses) over the last 20 or so years. Is it any wonder that I suspect him whenever anything of this ilk arises?!!!

I thought the whole idea of competition is trying to win.Quite rightly the Bees, and their fans, are devastated at the thought of giving up two of their heat leaders.Indeed why should they give up riders to accomodate new teams when both the new clubs already have a wealthy benefactor in Terry Russell.He has done very well from the Sky deal .I suggest he should finance his own teams and leave the other clubs to do the same.

[lupus]

Stop whinging for gods sake - you've just signed one of the best British prospects, so why not forget about the idea of keeping all your assets and letting others struggle, and look around you!!! The sort of team Coventry could put out next year, even without Hamill/Jonsson/Richardson (delete two of three!) will be exciting, young and capable of winning you something at last. And more importantly for the SPORT, rather than your very small part of it, all teams have the ability to compete on an even palying field!!!

[emmerdales]

If it can be gauranteed that Arena and Swindon (and Ipswich..... AND Oxford) can get two 8+ point riders to compete wih those who've already GOT this, then I say fine -

And I would say fine as well, as long as Coventry have got two 8+ riders too. I can't see anything wrong in teams having two riders from groups A and B if there are enough to go round. See....we are agreeing again. I think we were all prepared to lose one top rider to another team anyway so that's no big deal.

I just think it is ridiculous to bring on a rider like BJ, but as soon as he improves to heat leader status we have to let him go.

By the way, I'm not desperate for Bees to win anything as I don't take Speedway seriously.

I think CVS has summed the situation up perfectly by his remarks in this week's Speedway Star......"The traditional Speedway fan hates change, but we have to think of the new audience, the TV audience." So there we have it - Speedway the new "It's a Knockout."

I have NO problems with then changing the damn stupid GD rule - or even looking again at how the grading will work but whatever they decide should be in the best interests of the sport, not just the select few who kick up the biggest stink!!!!

And you would know this is Colin Pratt I presume?

I think CVS has summed the situation up perfectly by his remarks in this week's Speedway Star......"The traditional Speedway fan hates change, but we have to think of the new audience, the TV audience." So there we have it - Speedway the new "It's a Knockout

Does this mean that Sky television are now running British Speedway?

[Tina]

Does this mean that Sky television are now running British Speedway?

On the contrary. I think at the AGM it was decided to go with this grading system, which in effect will leave each team with only 1 heat leader, therefore no more heat 13 and 15 with potentially 4 GP riders in, and I don't think Sky will like this one little bit. Hence, this meeting being called next week.

Hopefully they will decide they may have got it slightly wrong and make some changes accordingly

[Ace_of_clubs]

but we have to think of the new audience, the TV audience." So there we have it - Speedway the new "It's a Knockout"

But 'Its a Knockout' is so 1970's.

 

I have a much better modern idea..... "Promoter Idol" (Idle?)

 

Each Promoter comes on stage for 3 minutes, reads his favourite rule book quote, and the public phone in at 60p a minute to vote one out.

 

It could make a fortune in phone calls...

 

 

 

VOTE PERRIN