Scunthorpe Saints V ...rye Cobras Sun 4th July

[scribbler]

There is no official word yet, but this was what I understand was decided after a meeting today. Expect a grovelling apology from Len Silver for using him ... what happens to the match I don't know. I think there's discussion amongst the BSPA at the moment about the situation.

 

If he wasn't elligible then Rye House Cobras should lose his 17 points - making it a win for Scunthorpe Saints. Anything less than that equals rewarding Rye House for breaking the rules...

[Ben91]

If he wasn't elligible then Rye House Cobras should lose his 17 points - making it a win for Scunthorpe Saints. Anything less than that equals rewarding Rye House for breaking the rules...

 

I agree Scribbler, if he isn't eligible then we should be punished, rightly so.

As it stands there is no evidence to say whether or not Tyson could ride, however what is certain is if any money has changed hands and Tyson was ineligible then Lens problems will be coming from higher up than the Bspa/scb.

[Halifaxtiger]

Oh I so agree with you montie........the above quote from Halifax tiger is ridiculous....how the hell can he know what our riders then were being paid........some folk claim to be so clever!.......This subject is becoming so repetative and boring.......As a supporter all I want to see is the speedy advance of our youngsters.......more so after attending the Cardiff GP yesterday. The only race which got us brits really excited was Tai's last race. That was awesome.........Cant everybody see that the standard of the brits is on the decline.........we must get our kids competative sooner rather than later or the brilliant event at ardiff will cease to interest many. certainly me. I'm fed up of saying I want to see the brits up there winning championships like they used to.......We have to find a way to run the N/L where both standalone and feeder clubs can work in harmony. Wake up to reality please......come on get behind the youngsters, whatever happened in the past is THEN we should all be pulling together for NOW.

 

I have no idea precisely how much the riders were getting paid but, as Scribbler has said, they were paid more than the pay rate agreed for the third tier of British Speedway at the time. The fact that others were doing it (or even paying more) isn't the point.

 

The point is that Rob Godfrey is no totally against paying more than the £10 a point that is the new agreed amount and has condemned rival promotions for doing so.

 

So what was OK for him to do when he was a stand alone promoter he is now totally against. My view on that it is unacceptable self interest but I am open to your suggestions as to this remarkable change of heart.

 

He also condemns the use of Australians but at the time he had no idea whether Tai Woffinden was going to be Australian or English; funny he didn't say then I am only for English riders and totally against those who have patriality, isn't it ?

 

Its an absolute myth that the NL is dominated by Australians. In the figures I quoted earlier there were just 5 out of 77 competitors. If the price of ensuring clubs stay viable is that they are allowed to ride I am all for that, otherwise there won't be clubs for our youngsters to ride at.

 

My whole point on this is pulling together. Its about co-operation, compromise and fairness, getting the best deal so that all might compete and provide a major stepping stone for the development of our young riders. Its not about one promotion stridently, selfishly and arrogantly insisting that they have their way without consideration for others and entirely going against what they did when they were a stand alone team. Jayne Moss is in exactly the same boat, yet I view her comments with sympathy, understanding and a genuine desire to ensure that Buxton run next season.

 

Its never what you say, its how and where. I have nothing but admiration for Rob Godfrey and the Scunthorpe set up, but that is a lesson he must learn (and to be fair, he's very far from being the only one).

[montie]

The point is that Rob Godfrey is no totally against paying more than the £10 a point that is the new agreed amount and has condemned rival promotions for doing so.

 

So what was OK for him to do when he was a stand alone promoter he is now totally against. My view on that it is unacceptable self interest but I am open to your suggestions as to this remarkable change of heart.

 

 

prove it or shut up its that simple

[Roger MARTIN]

I have no idea precisely how much the riders were getting paid but, as Scribbler has said, they were paid more than the pay rate agreed for the third tier of British Speedway at the time. The fact that others were doing it (or even paying more) isn't the point.

 

The point is that Rob Godfrey is no totally against paying more than the £10 a point that is the new agreed amount and has condemned rival promotions for doing so.

 

So what was OK for him to do when he was a stand alone promoter he is now totally against. My view on that it is unacceptable self interest but I am open to your suggestions as to this remarkable change of heart.

 

He also condemns the use of Australians but at the time he had no idea whether Tai Woffinden was going to be Australian or English; funny he didn't say then I am only for English riders and totally against those who have patriality, isn't it ?

 

Its an absolute myth that the NL is dominated by Australians. In the figures I quoted earlier there were just 5 out of 77 competitors. If the price of ensuring clubs stay viable is that they are allowed to ride I am all for that, otherwise there won't be clubs for our youngsters to ride at.

 

My whole point on this is pulling together. Its about co-operation, compromise and fairness, getting the best deal so that all might compete and provide a major stepping stone for the development of our young riders. Its not about one promotion stridently, selfishly and arrogantly insisting that they have their way without consideration for others and entirely going against what they did when they were a stand alone team. Jayne Moss is in exactly the same boat, yet I view her comments with sympathy, understanding and a genuine desire to ensure that Buxton run next season.

 

Its never what you say, its how and where. I have nothing but admiration for Rob Godfrey and the Scunthorpe set up, but that is a lesson he must learn (and to be fair, he's very far from being the only one).

 

 

Its not about how many Australians are in the NL at the present time, its just the way they use the NL has a stepping stone to get into the British Premier League, most people have no problem with them coming into the Country, just why dont they go into the PL, or when they come over they are given a realistic cma if they are going to go into the NL,

 

Look at the Australians that are in the NL now and what cma they came in on, do anyone think they should be reserves when they come into the NL, Micky Dyer has started on a 6.00 point cma, he has already uped his average after just two meeting to just over 8, he hasn't finished last in any of the nine races he has been in, and is already on a better average than John Armstrong, on his visit to the sba guesting for the Somerset Rebels he got 12 from 5 rides, not bad for a rider who has never been to the sba in Plymouth before,

 

Their may be five in the league at the momment but how many have have been in and out over the last five years,

 

Darcy Ward 4.56 EL

Aaron Summers 7.47 PL

Justin Sedgemen 7.13 PL

Richard Sweetman 7.74 PL

Dakota North 3.80 PL

Taylor Poole 6.46 PL

thats just some from the last five years.

 

Most of the one's in the NL now will be in and out, then we wait for another five next year to come in, having these lads in the NL are not the main problem your right, just one of many that need to be put right so people know what the rule is, at present nobody outside of the people that run the league knows what the rule is on Australians coming over, are they on holiday, do they have a visa to work or what, seems to me if you get the go ahead from the muppet who runs the NL you can use them, it maybe against the rules but who cares, so long has he says you can use him.

Edited July 12, 2010 by Roger MARTIN

[Dekker]

I believe he was riding for free plus expenses

So he is being paid then. Thanks for the confirmation, expect him to be deported and as he has broken the rules he can kiss any chance of a WP in the next few years goodbye.

[montie]

Its not about how many Australians are in the NL at the present time, its just the way they use the NL has a stepping stone to get into the British Premier League, most people have no problem with them coming into the Country, just why dont they go into the PL, or when they come over they are given a realistic cma if they are going to go into the NL,

 

Look at the Australians that are in the NL now and what cma they came in on, do anyone think they should be reserves when they come into the NL, Micky Dyer has started on a 6.00 point cma, he has already uped his average after just two meeting to just over 8, he hasn't finished last in any of the nine races he has been in, and is already on a better average than John Armstrong, on his visit to the sba guesting for the Somerset Rebels he got 12 from 5 rides, not bad for a rider who has never been to the sba in Plymouth before,

 

Their may be five in the league at the momment but how many have have been in and out over the last five years,

 

Darcy Ward 4.56 EL

Aaron Summers 7.47 PL

Justin Sedgemen 7.13 PL

Richard Sweetman 7.74 PL

Dakota North 3.80 PL

Taylor Poole 6.46 PL

thats just some from the last five years.

 

Most of the one's in the NL now will be in and out, then we wait for the next bach to come in, having these lads in the NL are not the main problem your right, just one of many that need to be put right so people know what the rule is, at present nobody outside of the people that run the league knows what the rule is on Australians coming over, are they on holiday, do they have a visa to work or what, seems to me if you get the go ahead from the muppet who runs the NL you can use them, it maybe against the rules but who cares, so long has he says you can use him.

 

I would beg to differ that the folk whom run the league know what the rules are,i still cant for the life of me work out how Dudley fitted Dyer in when Perry should have had an average of more than 3

[Shadders]

Tyson Nelson

[montie]

Tyson Nelson

 

 

So everyone was right,he shouldnt have been in the team that day,but yet Rye are ok to keeps his points and the win??

 

seems stupid to me

Edited July 12, 2010 by montie

[Albert]

So everyone was right,he should have been in the team that day,but yet Rye are ok to keeps his points and the win??

 

seem stupid to me

 

So cheatings the name of the game now. He's been proved illegal for god sake, yet his points stand, how bloody stupid is that. If it was another team or promoter cheating in this way they'd be hung, drawn and quartered...Seems Uncle Len has the SCB/BSPA wrapped round his little finger. Disgusting, come on BSPA..sort yourselves out!

[Louise1445]

So everyone was right,he shouldnt have been in the team that day,but yet Rye are ok to keeps his points and the win??

 

seems stupid to me

 

 

The last paragraph of that press release is brilliant - what a get out by the SCB. I am just so glad that the media doesn't take this sport of ours seriously, hell we could become a laughing stock in the big wide world as well as our own

[westhamboy66]

So cheatings the name of the game now. He's been proved illegal for god sake, yet his points stand, how bloody stupid is that. If it was another team or promoter cheating in this way they'd be hung, drawn and quartered...Seems Uncle Len has the SCB/BSPA wrapped round his little finger. Disgusting, come on BSPA..sort yourselves out!

What do you mean NOW. Where have you been for the last five years? Head buried in sand until it affects your club?

Hopefully we'll (Cobras) now go on to win the NL whatever way we can. Then all three leagues will have Champions that are in the same boat just to keep the leagues in equilibrium.

[Shadders]

So cheatings the name of the game now. He's been proved illegal for god sake, yet his points stand, how bloody stupid is that. If it was another team or promoter cheating in this way they'd be hung, drawn and quartered...Seems Uncle Len has the SCB/BSPA wrapped round his little finger. Disgusting, come on BSPA..sort yourselves out!

Please forward your complaints to....Alex Harkess of Edinburgh, Jon Cook (Lakeside), Jonathan Chapman (King’s Lynn), Matt Ford (Poole) and Neil Machin (Sheffield)

Edited July 12, 2010 by Shadders

[Albert]

What do you mean NOW. Where have you been for the last five years? Head buried in sand until it affects your club?

Hopefully we'll (Cobras) now go on to win the NL whatever way we can. Then all three leagues will have Champions that are in the same boat just to keep the leagues in equilibrium.

 

So as far as your concerned "cheating" is the name of the game.

[Dekker]

scb has no credibilty now, if his inclusion is illegal then the points must go, alex h really needs to get a grip of this.

[Halifaxtiger]

'At present the SCB have ruled that his inclusion in the Kart Cobras team at Scunthorpe was as legal as it could be given the information available at the time'

 

Truly unbelievable.

 

If Scunthorpe protested about Nelson's inclusion (which they did) then it should have been up to Rye House to prove his eligibility to ride to the referee. If they could not do that, then he should not have been allowed to take part.

 

What adds insult to injury is that it has been proved that Rye House were in the wrong yet they keep his points and those from the match, a situation that would not exist in any other sport where an ineligible competitor had taken part.

 

The nub of this problemn is that those who make decisions on matters of dispute are themselves compromised by the fact that sooner or later they themselves will be involved in a similar sort of dispute. Until such time as we have an adjudicator (the exemplary Mr Steele, perhaps) who is not a member of a speedway promotion and is entirely independent such occurrences will continue to happen, to the disillusionment, disbelief and disappointment of all those who pay to watch the sport every week.

[montie]

Does this open the door now for more use of riders who shouldnt be in the NL in certain situations,imagine if in the KOC final a team thought,Fxxk it im going to stick mateyboy in and win us the cup,i no its not right but i will keep his points,big deal if i cant use him again,ive won the cup

 

Fact is the rule should be unless you can prove the rider is ok on declaration[72 hrs before i think] he shouldnt be able to ride

[Halifaxtiger]

 

 

 

 

prove it or shut up its that simple

 

 

I can't.

 

But it has been stated on the pages of this forum (sadly pages that no longer exist) that that was the case by both Rob Godfrey & Malcolm Vasey.

 

As Scribbler has said, the CL pay rate a few years ago was £5 a point, and only Buxton & Sittingbourne kept to it. If what she has said is true (and I think it is) she accepts that Scunny riders were paid above NL pay rates in 2006 & 2007 at least.

 

Its not about how many Australians are in the NL at the present time, its just the way they use the NL has a stepping stone to get into the British Premier League, most people have no problem with them coming into the Country, just why dont they go into the PL, or when they come over they are given a realistic cma if they are going to go into the NL,

 

Look at the Australians that are in the NL now and what cma they came in on, do anyone think they should be reserves when they come into the NL, Micky Dyer has started on a 6.00 point cma, he has already uped his average after just two meeting to just over 8, he hasn't finished last in any of the nine races he has been in, and is already on a better average than John Armstrong, on his visit to the sba guesting for the Somerset Rebels he got 12 from 5 rides, not bad for a rider who has never been to the sba in Plymouth before,

 

Their may be five in the league at the momment but how many have have been in and out over the last five years,

 

Darcy Ward 4.56 EL

Aaron Summers 7.47 PL

Justin Sedgemen 7.13 PL

Richard Sweetman 7.74 PL

Dakota North 3.80 PL

Taylor Poole 6.46 PL

thats just some from the last five years.

 

Most of the one's in the NL now will be in and out, then we wait for another five next year to come in, having these lads in the NL are not the main problem your right, just one of many that need to be put right so people know what the rule is, at present nobody outside of the people that run the league knows what the rule is on Australians coming over, are they on holiday, do they have a visa to work or what, seems to me if you get the go ahead from the muppet who runs the NL you can use them, it maybe against the rules but who cares, so long has he says you can use him.

 

 

Very difficult to disagree with that, Roger, and I think you have pretty much hit the nail on the head when you say its not so much the fact that they compete but the ways in which promotions (the Mildenhall one included) try to include a high scoring Aussie youngster on a low average.

 

You can't cover for every eventuality, but putting anyone born outside of the UK on a 7 or 8 starting average might just do the trick.

[June]

How can it be legal and illegal.....Its got to be deemed one or the other. If its illegal, then Rye house should not get the 4 pts. What a farce!..... I suppose what actually happened is for L Silver to sign Nelson and slip him into the team at the last minute in a bid to pluck him from the grasp of Sheffield. Surely the BSPA know the rules regarding foreigners riding in our country, if not thats digusting!.....How is it justice that Rye house cheat and gain the points?

[Midnight_Lady]

Please forward your complaints to....Alex Harkess of Edinburgh, Jon Cook (Lakeside), Jonathan Chapman (King’s Lynn), Matt Ford (Poole) and Neil Machin (Sheffield)

 

Wouldn't it be better forwarding the complaints to the SCB who made the decision NOT the BSPA MC

 

The SCB have made a pantomime of this. Not legal but you can keep his points

 

Total farce.