semion Posted July 5, 2010 Report Share Posted July 5, 2010 Stand alone Clubs, i guess have a duty to their supporters to put together the best team they can to try and win things. The other clubs are their surely to try and develop young British ( hopefully) talent. If The likes of Rye, Scunny, KL, and Newport decide to "give in" and follow the likes of Bournmouth, Mildehall Plymouth etc, then surely the game is up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayne Posted July 5, 2010 Report Share Posted July 5, 2010 (edited) That would mean Uncle Lennie has given up on his principles of devoloping young Brtish talent for his Premier league side, just for a shot at top spot in the 3rd tier of British Speedway. I find that hard to believe. He is a well respected man who i am sure wouldnt lower himself to that level, would he ? Â Â The Rye House promotion quite clearly stated at the start of the season that they were putting a team together to win the league and one which would improve crowds. Edited July 5, 2010 by Jayne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scribbler Posted July 5, 2010 Report Share Posted July 5, 2010 The Rye House promotion quite clearly stated at the start of the season that they were putting a team together to win the league and one which would improve crowds. Â By fair means or foul... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
semion Posted July 5, 2010 Report Share Posted July 5, 2010 The Rye House promotion quite clearly stated at the start of the season that they were putting a team together to win the league and one which would improve crowds. Then the League is even more unbalanced. I feel a clear and concise path should be selected for the 3rd tier of British Speedway. If its a case of "open house2 and win at all costs, then so be it. The future of British speedway riders is doomed. I am very surprised that Uncle Lennis has changed sides and gone over to join the likes of Bournmouth, Plymouth, Mildenhall. Â Jayne as you are on the inside of tent spitting out, so to speak. How do you see the future of the 3rd league of British Speedway ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick@TSL Posted July 5, 2010 Report Share Posted July 5, 2010 This whole thing makes the NDL look stupid, firstly as noted in this weeks star Nelson has signed for Sheffield on a 5 point average but cannot ride as he has not got his work permit, there are two things that come out of this, firstly taking into account what has happened with Charles Wright any rider with a starting PL average of over 4 cannot ride in the NDL, secondly if he has been given a 5 point average this means he does not have partiality and finally if Sheffield cannot use him as he has yet to have a work permit then I fail to see how the rules have been manipulated to allow him to ride in the NDL and to put him at reserve is taking the p**s he should have at least ridden on double his PL average which woulad have been 10 and again this would have made the team ineligable. Â If the league do not take away Nelson points and award the meeting to Scunny then I think the league will be classed as a joke, we cannot keep bending rules to suit and this has gone to far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikko Posted July 5, 2010 Report Share Posted July 5, 2010 Nikko: I guess Mildenhall should sack Evans, Priest and to a lesser extent Matt Wright as this League is about development as you say.  Rye have been known for more recent years to field young British riders, which we still are as we have Marc Owen 15, Shane Hazelden 15 and Ben Morley 16 I count that to be more teenagers than Mildenhall have in their team? We have decided to go with a stronger approach this season as the crowds have been poor for National League racing so would you rather the National club folded and no youngsters were allowed to progress?  I can see both sides to the argument for Nelson, we must have used him with the intentions of him being in our Premier side and we have used Tom Stokes regularly this season but maybe he wasn't available? His average is 6th in the team so there are no arguments about him being at reserve and David Mason has been missing in our recent fixtures possibly retired? As for Morley being punished for moving main team it was only in the program notes this week at Rye that he was slightly unhappy about moving to reserve as you can only improve by moving main team, I'm sure he wasn't too worried yesterday as it's been a track he's rode fairly well before, did last year anyway.  Out of the two meetings this was by far the best as it was in the double header last year and well worth the admission fee, best wishes to Marc Owen it certainly was quite a fall.   Ash  If you look at my post again I was only answering why Rye House may have used Nelson to win an away meeting, its because your promotion have setout to win the league after many years of struggling. As you say crowds for the NDL at Rye House have been poor for years so they went a different way at the beginning of the season thats all so why you brought Mildenhall into this I dont know.  I dont think you can argue with Mildenhalls team this season, we are progressing Ollie and Joe Joe into possible Heat Leaders next season, Nic Laurence has been given a full season at reserve and we have Niall Strudwick as our No 8.  On top of that we are working with Adam Kirby, Adam Portwood and Sam Woods by giving them regular track time after home meetings and trying to get Academy meetings for them.  When the Isle of Wight came to West Row yesterday we were happy to let them have Adam Kirby as their number 8 to give him a chance of racing NDL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ash Posted July 5, 2010 Report Share Posted July 5, 2010 It seems very much a dig that Rye are no longer looking to field young riders, yet training schools are happening pretty much every week and we still have 3 teenagers in the team, I am not criticizing Mildenhall but using them as an example as you have with Rye. Â What is all this about his average doubling and halving Aussies cannot double up he will be 5.00 PL or 6.00 NL as it has been for a few years Can't see why we suddenly wish that Nelsons points are taken away he is not the first Aussie to ride NL this year and won't be the last, hopefully matters are sorted sharpish with a statement either from Rye or the BSPA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayne Posted July 5, 2010 Report Share Posted July 5, 2010 By fair means or foul...  You will have to make your own mind up on that one.  Then the League is even more unbalanced. I feel a clear and concise path should be selected for the 3rd tier of British Speedway. If its a case of "open house2 and win at all costs, then so be it. The future of British speedway riders is doomed. I am very surprised that Uncle Lennis has changed sides and gone over to join the likes of Bournmouth, Plymouth, Mildenhall.  Jayne as you are on the inside of tent spitting out, so to speak. How do you see the future of the 3rd league of British Speedway ?   The current situation is not good, too many teams are paying PL money to riders and I feel that the league has lost its way from its original intention. Now it is all about money and I fear that several teams will not be lining up next year mine included as we cannot sustain the financial outlay especially in the current economic climate. Costs have increased drastically from the CL days as riders demands are higher and loan and transfer fees are taken into account. The days of a development league are behind us and it is not good for British speedway. The league standard is too high for development to be its aim as a whole and cannot be sustained by several clubs. Riders demands though impact on all three leagues as if you can get £25 - £30 in the NL what do you expect in the PL and EL? I don't blame the riders for this but everyone needs to see the bigger picture and until that happens things will only get worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikko Posted July 5, 2010 Report Share Posted July 5, 2010 Then the League is even more unbalanced. I feel a clear and concise path should be selected for the 3rd tier of British Speedway. If its a case of "open house2 and win at all costs, then so be it. The future of British speedway riders is doomed. I am very surprised that Uncle Lennis has changed sides and gone over to join the likes of Bournmouth, Plymouth, Mildenhall. Â Jayne as you are on the inside of tent spitting out, so to speak. How do you see the future of the 3rd league of British Speedway ? Â I was going to bite on this one but suffice to say I am more than happy that Mildenhall have a balance between trying to progress British Riders and trying to make the playoffs. Â As I have said on this thread before we are progressing Joe Joe and Ollie, we have given a chance to Nic Laurence to make a name for himself and also given Luke a chance after a major injury. Jerran is another young British lad making his way hopefully to the top. Matt was given a place after struggling elsewhere and Barrie at the end of the day is still only in his mid 20s and if you want to make a point about Barrie, if the PL was not fully of riders from outside of the UK he may be riding PL anyway !! Â Lets not turn this into a Kings Lynn or Rye House v Mildenhall issue here, its more important than that. Â As Jayne, Malcolm etc know, I believe that we must find a way to progress British talent through this league however clubs must survive so balance must be found. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
semion Posted July 5, 2010 Report Share Posted July 5, 2010 \Nikko, I would sing from that hymm sheet. My post was not attack on the Fen tigers. More to do with the 2 seperate factions withn the one League. Stand alone Clubs have to make it pay from that one meeting a week, and we all know us fans are a fickle lot and like to see our teams winningn their home matches. The other teams, have other ways of supporting this level of Speedway at the track. We need more Clubs at this level, certainly not less. As Janye has said, if things carry on the way they are, then Clubs are going to fall by wayside. Thats the last thing we want. When Club omves the goalposts, are other clubs not forced to follow. Is this why costs in The NDL have risen so much over the past 18 months ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scribbler Posted July 5, 2010 Report Share Posted July 5, 2010  What is all this about his average doubling and halving Aussies cannot double up he will be 5.00 PL or 6.00 NL as it has been for a few years  Is that as a 5 pointer in the PL and a 6 pointer in the NL?  As the NDL has only been running with points rather than grades for a couple of seasons I would think that the 6 would come from being a 5 pointer in the PL and a grade 6 in the old CL. A grade 6 rider is a totally different thing from a 6 pointer... and would seem to fit better than a 5 pointer in the PL and a 6 pointer in the NDL. As someone else suggested... sure;y a 5 pointer in the PL should equal a 10 pointer in the NL... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil3065 Posted July 5, 2010 Report Share Posted July 5, 2010 I think we cant overlook the fact that the current make-up of the 'third tier', ie, with established riders who have experience at a higher level and youngsters who have come through training schools, DOES benefit those younger riders development - by giving them something to aim at to increase their ability, that they would not get by just racing against others from their own age group. You then see those riders who are ready and able to move up to a higher level. Â Of course, you get many experienced riders at third tier level who gradually find themselves priced out of being competitive, as equipment costs rise and make it harder and harder for them to sustain their racing at a competitive level, with other demands on their money. Â For whatever reason, there are a surplus of experienced British riders, who cannot get regular PL team places and making the third tier a purely development league would force many riders out of the sport. In terms of Aussies coming into NL teams, irrespective of individual circumstances - how many are we talking?! Without saying whether its 'right or wrong' to go down that route, in truth, it isnt THAT many riders, is it?! Â You've also got standalone tracks who need to produce a competitive team to sustain crowds at a level which enables those clubs to continue to exist. Â So, its difficult to develop a solution that keeps all those with an interest in this level of Speedway happy. Â It does strike me that as soon as a team has any sort of success at this level, people associated with those teams who are less successful look for some morality angle on why that success is undeserved - only to then be silence when their team's fortunes improve. You didnt see Scunthorpe fans complaining about anyone else's set-up when their team was sweeping all before it at CL level a couple of years back - yet now they are not so powerful, they are complaining about other teams. Even Buxton, well reknowned for developing young British riders, are getting stick for using young Aussies this season. Uncle Len, who has championed development of young brits in the past (but has suddenly filled his PL team with several foreign riders) is now thinking differently. Â Why the insistance on supporters taking 'holier than thou' approaches and attempting to dictate to other clubs how they should structure their teams in any case. Sure, we dont allow 'foreigners' in this league (other than the odd 'Aussie', on a british passport, or work visa's now, it seems)- but shouldnt clubs be able to decide for themselves what approach they take to team building, within those parameters?! Â Maybe the solution is to have a more structured development level below the current third tier, that is some sort of regional YDL set-up, that's run as a second half league of mini-matches, ie, six heats or so. Â I think any issues within the third tier are the tip of the ice-berg, for me a greater problem is the willingness of promoters at higher levels to overlook British riders in favour of (especially in the PL) low averaged foreign riders. This leaves a large number of Brits who have nowhere to ride, but the third tier, or be lost to the sport. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burark01 Posted July 5, 2010 Report Share Posted July 5, 2010 Jeeze Change The Record. The Meeting Happened, Rye House Used An Aussie WOW! Get Over It Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben91 Posted July 5, 2010 Report Share Posted July 5, 2010 But a young Brit could have replaced Mason... Â True, however we have made the signing within the rules, I don't agree with them, but that's the way it is, every other club plays them so us doing so is no different. Â I think it is wrong to crucify Rye for this signing, we have three teenagers, as Ash has stated, plus two of our side are in the Rockets Premier League side, whilst Jamie Smith is the experienced spearhead, which most other sides, Scunthorpe included have in their team. It is quite ironic that Scunthorpe fans are complaining, considering you had Byron Bekker, a South African, in your NL team for X amount of years. No-one batted an eyelid or spoke about developing talent for other countries then did they. Oh and remember Tai Woffinden, the unknown Aussie who came over in 2006? The fact he races for GB now is irrelevant as when he came overfirst he clearly was racing as an Australian, hehad "The Wizard of Oz" written on his Kevlars Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scribbler Posted July 5, 2010 Report Share Posted July 5, 2010 As Janye has said, if things carry on the way they are, then Clubs are going to fall by wayside. Thats the last thing we want. Â After last season Rob Godfrey had to make a big decision to continue developing youngsters in the NDL. This season he's brought slightly older novice riders into the sport... and still the goalposts are being moved by a 'win at all costs' club with a PL team. Â Obviously the BSPA, the EL and the PL don't want British riders in the League or Team GB... Â Â Jayne - I made my mind up well before I typed...and if the NDL isn't a League where I can watch/note new talent next season then I guess I won't be posting on here... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
semion Posted July 5, 2010 Report Share Posted July 5, 2010 Neil, If the 2nd string Clubs pulled out because they couldnt compete both on and off the track with the stand alones. Would there be enough Clubs left to make it attractive for the fans, and worthwhile for the Promotions ? For me each Club should be allowed one "old hand" and the rest should be u and coming youngsters, if there is enough to go around. You look at the Plymouth side ( I am sure they do what is right for them) is that really what is best for the future of British Speedway ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
semion Posted July 5, 2010 Report Share Posted July 5, 2010 Jeeze Change The Record. The Meeting Happened, Rye House Used An Aussie WOW! Get Over It Thank you Len Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
semion Posted July 5, 2010 Report Share Posted July 5, 2010 hehad "The Wizard of Oz" written on his Kevlars Maybe it was his favourite film ?..or.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben91 Posted July 5, 2010 Report Share Posted July 5, 2010 Maybe it was his favourite film ?..or.... Ah, that would explain the ruby slippers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scribbler Posted July 5, 2010 Report Share Posted July 5, 2010 True, however we have made the signing within the rules, I don't agree with them, but that's the way it is, every other club plays them so us doing so is no different.  I think it is wrong to crucify Rye for this signing, we have three teenagers, as Ash has stated, plus two of our side are in the Rockets Premier League side, whilst Jamie Smith is the experienced spearhead, which most other sides, Scunthorpe included have in their team. It is quite ironic that Scunthorpe fans are complaining, considering you had Byron Bekker, a South African, in your NL team for X amount of years. No-one batted an eyelid or spoke about developing talent for other countries then did they. Oh and remember Tai Woffinden, the unknown Aussie who came over in 2006? The fact he races for GB now is irrelevant as when he came overfirst he clearly was racing as an Australian, hehad "The Wizard of Oz" written on his Kevlars  One minute it's a rider - riding for free ( and if anyone believes that...)- the next he's a signing...  One SA rider - with (I believe) patriality... One 'Wizard of Oz' born in Scunthorpe... One perfectly legal 2006/7 team - full of young developing riders, with one experienced older rider...  Hoe legal was Rye House's team yesterday? How far were the rules streeeeetched? Do RH fans really feel good about the way their team won yesterday? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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