Heathens Announce New Signing

[June]

Racism??? don't you mean Xenophobia??? there's a massive difference for the ignorant out there!!!

Definately not..........I have nothing but admiration for ALL speedway riders who give us sheer entertainment and enjoyment. end of.

[BigFatDave]

Racism??? don't you mean Xenophobia??? there's a massive difference for the ignorant out there!!!

They're pretty close really - Racism being discriminatory or abusive behavior towards members of another race or nationality and Xenophobia being an intense fear or dislike of foreign people. Both are pretty evident on this thread, alas; proof positive that despite the mushrooming of knowledge and its accessibility in the 21st Century genuine Dinosaurs still exist.

Edited June 26, 2010 by BigFatDave

[Dekker]

have no problem with Aussies coming across, but what gets me is they give deals to them that no brit junior would even get a sniff at. But its just another area highlighting how poor we are at generating and progressing junior talent.

[Vince]

They're pretty close really - Racism being discriminatory or abusive behavior towards members of another race or nationality and Xenophobia being an intense fear or dislike of foreign people. Both are pretty evident on this thread, alas; proof positive that despite the mushrooming of knowledge and its accessibility in the 21st Century genuine Dinosaurs still exist.

 

That's all very well when you don't actually see what is happening over here. How many of these Aussies would develop into good riders if the British lads that came over took their places in meetings instead of just rode alongside them?

Most clubs are not going to pay out good money and help with sponsorship only to drop a rider at short notice. How often do we read that a rider should move nearer his home track? How about offering him the same help to do that with regards to living allowance etc?

However when he cost nothing in the first place and had to sort out his own equipment there is no problem dropping him, it costs the club nothing.

Many of the foreign lads are given years in the PL on low averages before going on to make decent riders. British lads are lucky to get weeks let alone years.

British lads very often are not even being treated equally to foreign lads let alone given preferential treatment. If the situation was reversed you would be very quick to defend Aussie riders rights I am sure.

Edited June 26, 2010 by Vince

[BigFatDave]

I'm sure you're aware of the sterling work that Marcus is doing every year bringing over young Brits to ride in Oz under the Darren and Sharon Boocock Scholarship?

This year Josh Auty will be returning to defend his Queensland Senior and Under-21 championships, along with Cal McDade, Adam Wrathall, Brendan Johnson, Gino Manzanares and Kyle Newman. If they're good enough they'll be taking part in our National Championships as well as Josh and Joe Haines did last season.

These boys will be welcomed with open arms by the Oz Speedway community; their trips are made possible by a heap of hard work setting up sponsorships for them from both Australian and British Companies, Speedway supporters and their families. Evidently there's Sponsorship dollars available out there: you just have to work damn hard to get it, it doesn't just drop into your lap.

[Vince]

I'm sure you're aware of the sterling work that Marcus is doing every year bringing over young Brits to ride in Oz under the Darren and Sharon Boocock Scholarship?

This year Josh Auty will be returning to defend his Queensland Senior and Under-21 championships, along with Cal McDade, Adam Wrathall, Brendan Johnson, Gino Manzanares and Kyle Newman. If they're good enough they'll be taking part in our National Championships as well as Josh and Joe Haines did last season.

These boys will be welcomed with open arms by the Oz Speedway community; their trips are made possible by a heap of hard work setting up sponsorships for them from both Australian and British Companies, Speedway supporters and their families. Evidently there's Sponsorship dollars available out there: you just have to work damn hard to get it, it doesn't just drop into your lap.

 

How many up and coming Aussies won't get to ride because those lads are there for a few weeks?

The Aussies that come over here are welcomed and helped a huge amount by the British Speedway community. Nobody has any issues with the lads themselves and many of us have helped them any way we can.

 

It is the system that is wrong. If the British system encouraged Promoters put the time and money into local kids that they do into foreign (not just Australian) riders then they would progress far more quickly. If saying so makes me racist or xenophopbic in your eyes, tough, my opinions are in line with the way the majority of Brits that I know think.

 

Having spent countless hours grafting in the chase for sponsorship money I suggest you teach your granny to suck eggs on that front. Nobody is asking for anything for nothing for British lads, just equality. If you were over here and involved with British youngsters trying to establish themselves in the sport you would understand where we are coming from. You aren't and with all due respect you don't have a clue how all this works in reality.

Edited June 26, 2010 by Vince

[WIE-JA]

 

 

 

G'day Cuz, what brings you on here, as if I didn't know? Ah, yes, the subtle hint of racism is enough to mobilise the legions of extreme right white supremacists; wouldn't be like you to miss out on an opportunity to hurl abuse at 'foreigners', would it? I see you've already pitched your tent in this debate: tell me, have you read the whole thread or are you just another member of the 'I'm always right' brigade who refuse to see anyone's point of view but their own, then resort to personal abuse when their argument fails?

Hi BFD. Yes I have read the whole of the thread. I have always been a Heathens supporter since Leicester closed down. No way I'm supporting Coventry! Obviously you're correct that I am anti foreign riders, especially Australian ones. In actual fact I enjoy watching any rider race on track and have spanered for various foreign riders at my expense when they've been short-handed. The NL is for British riders to gain experience in and hopefully when they are good enough move up a league or two.

[BigFatDave]

Hi BFD. Yes I have read the whole of the thread. I have always been a Heathens supporter since Leicester closed down. No way I'm supporting Coventry! Obviously you're correct that I am anti foreign riders, especially Australian ones. In actual fact I enjoy watching any rider race on track and have spanered for various foreign riders at my expense when they've been short-handed. The NL is for British riders to gain experience in and hopefully when they are good enough move up a league or two.

 

G'day Cuz, at least I know where I stand with you. I'll just take issue with your last point: as Parsloes posted earlier, the NL is for ALL riders to gain experience in.

[WIE-JA]

G'day Cuz, at least I know where I stand with you. I'll just take issue with your last point: as Parsloes posted earlier, the NL is for ALL riders to gain experience in.

ALL British riders

[BigFatDave]

How many up and coming Aussies won't get to ride because those lads are there for a few weeks?

The Aussies that come over here are welcomed and helped a huge amount by the British Speedway community. Nobody has any issues with the lads themselves and many of us have helped them any way we can.

 

It is the system that is wrong. If the British system encouraged Promoters put the time and money into local kids that they do into foreign (not just Australian) riders then they would progress far more quickly. If saying so makes me racist or xenophopbic in your eyes, tough, my opinions are in line with the way the majority of Brits that I know think.

 

Having spent countless hours grafting in the chase for sponsorship money I suggest you teach your granny to suck eggs on that front. Nobody is asking for anything for nothing for British lads, just equality. If you were over here and involved with British youngsters trying to establish themselves in the sport you would understand where we are coming from. You aren't and with all due respect you don't have a clue how all this works in reality.

Vince, I came into this discussion because of the amount of abuse that was being directed against Aussies. You don't know me from a bar of soap, and you don't know what I do either, yet you see fit to personally abuse me. Saying "if you were over here etc" is fatuous, because you know I'm not. If its the System at fault then why don't you and your mates expend as much energy as you've put into slagging me off into attempting to fix what's wrong?

If as you say Aussies are welcomed with open arms, how do you explain all the "I Hate Aussies" posts on here: there were three or four on the first page of this thread alone.

[Ben91]

I'd like to say that this is getting ridiculous now. This is not a race issue and the fact that that 'card' has been played is pretty low in my opinion. Dave's views are strong and will not be changed, whilst the same goes for the other British posters, myself included, on this thread. Whilst the rules allow commonwealth riders into the National League then there is nothing stopping it from happening, however much we debate here. A majority of promoters will of course be for keeping things as they are, though fan power can change that, perhaps a petition asking for the NL to become Brits only, the control bureau cannot ignore something if a large number of fans make an official statement of their views IMO. This is not 'anti-Aussie' just sorting the wheat from the chaff, if an Aussie comes over, they ride PL on a 5 point average so signing them is more of a gamble/the better riders get signed up still. It would then mean rather than a NL team perhaps employing a mediocre Australian (there have been some, surprisingly ), they would have to use a mediocre Brit another issue which needs looking at is lowering the points limit, by it's nature that means more teams will have to use three point British riders anyway.

[spin king]

My personal view is that we have to strike a sensible balance. I think not allowing Commonwealth riders into the National League is not a good idea.

The Aussies have been over the last 10 years as so been far more successful that us on the track, so why don't we look and learn from how they do it.

I think that we would struggle now to match the Aussies for success, simpley because of the different sporting cultures. The Aussie way of life is built around competetive sport, and plough alot more resources into their, and Aussie sportsmen and sportwomen support other Aussie's in other sports look at Mark Webber at Speedway Grand Prix's supporting Crump and Holder. The best way forward is look at what the Aussies are doing and try and find out the magic formula, and picking out the best ideas and copying them or learning from them.

Like I say we have to get the balance right to develop and nuture them, and riders will learn from riding against better riders, and lets face Australia have a heavy influx of good young riders who are keen to get into league racing, and GB is probably the easiest for them.

At present the way I see it a Promoter in the National could if he wanted track a team full of Aussie riders, 1 Commonwealth rider and 6 with Dual Nationality.

My big gripe is with those who claim dual nationality, for me these riders are having their cake and eating it, for me if they are going to use their British connection to obtain a lower aveage then they should commit their international future to this country.

But I don't think that having a total ban of Commonwealth riders in the national League is a good idea.

And I would further add about learning from the Aussie way, look at the work that Marcus Williams and the people that helped him with the Darren and Sharon Boocock Academy with young British riders all going over to Aussie and learning, ask the likes of Josh Auty, Kyle Newman and co whether they learn't anything, and finally I wonder why the BSPA are helping with the funds for this excellent idea.

[BigFatDave]

I'd like to say that this is getting ridiculous now. This is not a race issue and the fact that that 'card' has been played is pretty low in my opinion. Dave's views are strong and will not be changed, whilst the same goes for the other British posters, myself included, on this thread. Whilst the rules allow commonwealth riders into the National League then there is nothing stopping it from happening, however much we debate here. A majority of promoters will of course be for keeping things as they are, though fan power can change that, perhaps a petition asking for the NL to become Brits only, the control bureau cannot ignore something if a large number of fans make an official statement of their views IMO. This is not 'anti-Aussie' just sorting the wheat from the chaff, if an Aussie comes over, they ride PL on a 5 point average so signing them is more of a gamble/the better riders get signed up still. It would then mean rather than a NL team perhaps employing a mediocre Australian (there have been some, surprisingly ), they would have to use a mediocre Brit another issue which needs looking at is lowering the points limit, by it's nature that means more teams will have to use three point British riders anyway.

 

Good to see we agree on some things Ben! (Puts down bag of over-ripe tomatoes.) You've obviously taken the time to think the problem through. As you say, my views on Racism are strong: I find it abhorrent in all forms, and take exception when it rears its ugly head, particularly when its directed against a handful of riders who are merely obeying the rules as they stand. There are only four or five Aussie riders in the NL and as the rules stand they are allowed to be there. In my opinion they are a great asset to the NL, teaching their British counterparts a few things about competitive racing that they'd otherwise be unaware of, and sharing their experiences. You only have to look at the progress of the Darren and Sharon Boocock Scholarship riders this season as a case in point. Don't forget, our system is built on individual competition.

 

If its the system that's wrong then it needs to be changed, and our energies should be directed in that direction, rather than just wasting valuable drinking time abusing each other.

[kiwi]

Dual nationality riding what is the difference between riding as an Aussie in this case and a Brit, its still the same rider, he's still putting out a British rider as you all see it.

 

It I was a team manager of a Premier league team, I think I'd be using my influence to promote the best British national league riders into my team to strengthen the British speedway bloodline.

 

If you want young riders coming through make the age limit 27. Oh but that would put a few old British riders out of a job, but this is a development league isn't.

 

Speedway is about winners..

 

 

 

[norwichkev]

Many good points from all sides here.

 

Nothing wrong with being pro British over others - look across the world, it's no different anywhere............ however.

 

The young Aussies at the moment bring a new edge - excitement, attitude, experience, the will to win. To name but 3 last year Taylor Poole, this year Morris and Branford all great to watch and would tip the balance if you were undecided about going. Young Brits at that level unquestionably Marc Owen and a few others bubbling under BUT then you struggle. All of the riders mentioned you could put up against second strings and quite a few Heat leaders, they have all learned fast.

 

Surely entertainment is a large part of what the game is about at NL, PL and EL level - GP's etc for the individual to stand alone. Putting young Brits in for the sake of it will only dilute the sport and ultimately drive crowds away. Development has to be via a mechanism that exists - the Academy League - make the youngsters hungry and really want to progress.

 

Mildenhall have in their programme a slot every week for an Academy League meeting - to date end June we have had not 1 fixture, apparently nobody else can field a team.

 

Says it all really.

[marcusthepom]

DUDLEY Heathens have wasted no time in snapping up hot prospect Micky Dyer who will make his debut on Friday.

 

Dyer, 19, is from New South Wales and will replace James Sarjeant in the Heathens side for their trip to Weymouth - and he will make his home debut in the National League clash with King's Lynn at Wolverhampton next Tuesday, June 29.

 

Manager Will Pottinger watched Dyer take his first laps on a British track at Stoke on Monday when he joined the Heathens squad for a practice session arranged by former Cradley favourites Mark Robinson and Anthony Boyd - and he was suitably impressed.

 

Said Pottinger: "We have taken the opportunity to strengthen the team. Micky comes recommended from contacts in Australia and after seeing him practice for myself at Stoke on Monday, I'm sure we now have a team to push on and challenge for the play offs and silverware.

 

"I hope our great supporters will show their backing to Micky as he gets to grip with British Speedway with our matches at Weymouth on Friday and against King's Lynn at Monmore Green on Tuesday.

 

"Unfortunately including Micky comes at the expense of James Sarjeant which I must admit is far from ideal.

 

"Dropping a young British lad goes against the principles of the National League but until the system is changed this type of change is always a possibility.

 

"We still have talented British youngsters in our team including Richard Franklin, Ashley Morris and Tom Perry but we thank James for his efforts so far this season and we wish him all the best for the future.

 

"We have held open his place at the Golden Hammer next month and I'm sure the fans will give him a great reception."

 

Dyer joins Dudley on a six-point average which means Wolverhampton teenager Ashley Morris moves down to reserve to partner Tom Perry for the two vital meetings with Weymouth and King's Lynn.

 

The new riding order is as follows - 1. Lee Smart, 2. Michael Dyer, 3. Richard Franklin, 4. Jake Anderson, 5. Jon Armstrong, 6. Ashley Morris, 7. Tom Perry.

shame on you and the management...............wake up its the n/l designed to help bring on british riders.dont you ever ever complain british speedway has no new talant,its posts like yours which is killing the sport and the young british riders riding in it

[scribbler]

shame on you and the management...............wake up its the n/l designed to help bring on british riders.dont you ever ever complain british speedway has no new talant,its posts like yours which is killing the sport and the young british riders riding in it

 

It's amazing the difference in attitudes between BigFatDave and marcusthepom ... I believe that they're both ex-pats...

[marcusthepom]

It's amazing the difference in attitudes between BigFatDave and marcusthepom ... I believe that they're both ex-pats...

[/quote

im not ex pat thank you very much,i haved lived in australia for most of my life.

what really pisses me of about british speedway is the following.

you would rather import success rather than put the effort in to bring it on yourselfs.

you all moan and winge that you have no world class riders that are good enough

to either win the world solo championship or world team championships but do nothing

to help yourselfs acheive these goals.

importing young ozzies to fill a team spot held by a young english lad just stinks,i couldnt give a flying s@@t about dudley from here on in.

its the n/l not the elite league for gods sake........wake up please.....if you dont plant seeds you cant pick the crop when its ready.shame shame shame on you dudley.there are some wonderfully good british lads riding at the moment,put time into these lads dont piss them off because the grass looks greener on the other side of the fence.shame on you dudley.

]

[scribbler]

 

you would rather import success rather than put the effort in to bring it on yourselfs.

you all moan and winge that you have no world class riders that are good enough

to either win the world solo championship or world team championships but do nothing

to help yourselfs acheive these goals.

importing young ozzies to fill a team spot held by a young english lad just stinks,i couldnt give a flying s@@t about dudley from here on in.

its the n/l not the elite league for gods sake........wake up please.....if you dont plant seeds you cant pick the crop when its ready.shame shame shame on you dudley.there are some wonderfully good british lads riding at the moment,put time into these lads dont piss them off because the grass looks greener on the other side of the fence.shame on you dudley.

]

 

That's what several/many supporters over here are saying - but then we have to put up with insults about racism etc...

 

Promomoters just seem to care about their wallets - and not the sport...

 

Such strong words from you marcusthepom - I can feel the emotion from here. You work so hard for British lads giving them 'the Australian experience' ... without detriment to Australian riders...

[kiwi]

shame on you and the management...............wake up its the n/l designed to help bring on british riders.dont you ever ever complain british speedway has no new talant,its posts like yours which is killing the sport and the young british riders riding in it

 

Here's a thought drop Jon Armstrong and leave the new talent in.