kiwi Posted June 27, 2010 Report Share Posted June 27, 2010 (edited) And your saying that theres no place anywhere for the likes of john armstrong because hes to old for national league and wont get signed by a premier league team so he should what?? just retire - In my opinion i go to speedeway to be entertained, jon armstrong does that, take this new heathens signing, who says hes going to make it, who says hes going to be any better than jon armstrong, hes certainly not at this moment in time, so why should jon give his team place up to someone who might or might not make the grade. I dont understand where your coming from, plymouth another example there 2 best riders mark simmonds and seemend stephens on your theory should be forced to retire because they are past a certain age and in all fairness are not going to improve, doesnt matter that they both give great entertainment. Why should he stop racing to become a coach, friday night he scored 15 points was involved in the race of the night and was excellent entertainment, but you think he should jack it in to become a coach - how old are you, what do you do for a job , maybe you should be forced to leave work and just paid a token amount to show others how to do your job - unbeleivable! hey, i haven't a problem with any rider being in the league if he's good enough, but this thread started with a 16yr old being dropped for another 16yr old and not enough places for british riders to learn and develop. The system that is there at the moment is being used by all under the rules, and the best riders will always get the places. Edited June 27, 2010 by kiwi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveEvans Posted June 28, 2010 Report Share Posted June 28, 2010 If British kids want to learn speedway there is a huge increase in amateur events on the weekends these days - Scunthorpe, Southern Track riders, Dragons, Lydd, Sittingbourne, etc. Yes, you pay to ride but thats how you learn. Other motorsports like Grass Track and Moto-Cross charge entry fees to race. In the US, the majority of riders, even the top ones pay $30 entry fee each meerting to race and I wouldn't be surprised if the same applied in Australia as they have lots of grass roots vcnues. On the Aussies - I would change the rules that they can only come in on a British average (3) if they will ride for Great Britain, otherwise they are a 5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcusthepom Posted June 28, 2010 Report Share Posted June 28, 2010 (edited) Good Luck to Michael Dyer at Dudley, his trip to the UK was funded by the Brummies and I think hes an asset too. Really do feel for James and I hope he gets fixed up with a club soon. kev dont get me started on this one mate because either way.......oh sod it i give up im over this crap.lets just fly every rider over from australia and call it the SKIPPY LEAGUE. WE are all wasting our time even talking about it,lets give it 5 years and there wont be any english lads riding in the N/L.that will make the bulk of you happy. im over it................ Edited June 28, 2010 by marcusthepom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcusthepom Posted June 28, 2010 Report Share Posted June 28, 2010 Do you know anything about anything in this country? It has been British National Development League from day one and remains as such so get your facts straight for once. I am very disappointed for James Sarjeant who deserves longer in my view to re-establish at his new Club. Malcolm Vasey thank you malcolm......well said Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
June Posted June 28, 2010 Report Share Posted June 28, 2010 kev dont get me started on this one mate because either way.......oh sod it i give up im over this crap.lets just fly every rider over from australia and call it the SKIPPY LEAGUE. WE are all wasting our time even talking about it,lets give it 5 years and there wont be any english lads riding in the N/L.that will make the bulk of you happy. im over it................ Oh marcus don't dispair you sing from the same sheet as most of us who post on here. With Dudley being a feeder club for Brummy teams, Kev would be happy with all Aussies in both leagues. In 5 years, not only will we have no brits riding, you'll have even fewer riders left in Australia singing from Kevs sheet. All that is required is for the BSPA to use some control. Shame on the Brummy lads....why couldn't you help a british lad. No because you want instant success. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scribbler Posted June 28, 2010 Report Share Posted June 28, 2010 If British kids want to learn speedway there is a huge increase in amateur events on the weekends these days - Scunthorpe, Southern Track riders, Dragons, Lydd, Sittingbourne, etc. Of which Scunthorpe is the only place I can see on the list that is anywhere near the North of England (it's often classed as East Midlands)... and the only place where League racing also occurs... I'd be interested to know how often promoters or 'club scouts' attend these amateur events... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rami Posted June 28, 2010 Report Share Posted June 28, 2010 hey, i haven't a problem with any rider being in the league if he's good enough Well thats not you were saying in your earlier posts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwi Posted June 28, 2010 Report Share Posted June 28, 2010 Well thats not you were saying in your earlier posts. I don't want to get into another argument but from the 'outside looking in', we (BFD, me, Steve Evans) and notable Danes can see that the problem you have is not the national league, its your junior program or lack of it, the answer is not to get rid of better riders because the are from another country, but look at how they got that good and copy them. It will take 5 years for a junior programme to start to show worth, but until you start you are always going to be 5 years away from seeing an improvement. I know this isn't always possible, but if I was a parent of a british rider I would be offering board to an overseas rider, befriend them, learn from them, you then have an in to visit them, speedway in the off season, it opens up all possibilities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
21st century heathen Posted June 28, 2010 Report Share Posted June 28, 2010 I really do hope that he won't be on the scrap heap. It saddened me when he was one of 3 Scunny youngsters to be tempted away from us this year. Being dropped by Dudley must have knocked his confidence for 6. Dudley knew the level of speedway he had achieved when they signed him. Poor kid must feel gutted. to one so young and to be replaced by an Aussie.....oh dear I feel for him! And had he maintained it I doubt he'd have been dropped. However, he has struggled and his average has dropped by a point to under 3. How many 3-point riders in any of our leagues get more than half a season to improve before being replaced? Oh marcus don't dispair you sing from the same sheet as most of us who post on here. With Dudley being a feeder club for Brummy teams, Kev would be happy with all Aussies in both leagues. In 5 years, not only will we have no brits riding, you'll have even fewer riders left in Australia singing from Kevs sheet. All that is required is for the BSPA to use some control. Shame on the Brummy lads....why couldn't you help a british lad. No because you want instant success. I don't know why it's just the Brummies that are getting some stick off you. We have Wolves and Coventry assets riding for us. And lets highlight that one of them happens to be James so where he ends up is nothing to do with Scunthorpe, Birmingham or Dudley. It's for him and Coventry to sort out. --------------------------------- For the third time - Are there any young 6-point Brits that could have come in for us instead? It's a genuine question that seems to have been completely ignored by those more familiar with this level of racing than me. *edit* typo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwi Posted June 28, 2010 Report Share Posted June 28, 2010 --------------------------------- For the third time - Are there any young 6-point Brits that could have come in for us instead? It's a genuine question that seems to have been completely ignored by those more familiar with this level of racing than me. *edit* typo probably they have gone up to the premier league on a reduced average Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveEvans Posted June 28, 2010 Report Share Posted June 28, 2010 Of which Scunthorpe is the only place I can see on the list that is anywhere near the North of England (it's often classed as East Midlands)... and the only place where League racing also occurs... I'd be interested to know how often promoters or 'club scouts' attend these amateur events... I missed off Stoke and also Northside Workington runs training schools. This is just to say that non league riding opportunities exist more than ever and if q rider is on the pace he should then be doing second halves at NL tracks to put his name in the window, Besides, even riders having to travel a few hundred miles to these meetings is nothing compaed to the 12,000 miles an Aussie flies to race. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SarahLapworth Posted June 28, 2010 Report Share Posted June 28, 2010 I thik the term "development league" is a bit false. The National league is run as a business the same as the elite and premier leagues and every team promoter knows he has to have a winning team to get the punters through the door to pay the bills thats just the way it is, if a rider is not performing then chances are he will be dropped and another rider regardless of nationality will take his place. So what about the "development" of British kids? answer is start them young on 50cc and then progress them to 80cc and them to 500's. We all bleat on about how something has got to be done but really we should be doing something NOW! the above mentioned system has worked in scandinavia for years and thats why there is always an endless conveyor belt of talent coming from denmark and sweden. It will take time but if this system was put in place in the UK chances are we would have 20 - 30 homegrown riders who would be at the top level within 10 years thus increasing the ammount of British riders in all 3 leagues and reducing the need to bring in overseas riders. Until that happens we will still be moaning on the forum about this topic in 5 and 10 years time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swift Saint Posted June 28, 2010 Report Share Posted June 28, 2010 So what about the "development" of British kids? answer is start them young on 50cc and then progress them to 80cc and them to 500's. We all bleat on about how something has got to be done but really we should be doing something NOW! the above mentioned system has worked in scandinavia for years and thats why there is always an endless conveyor belt of talent coming from denmark and sweden. It will take time but if this system was put in place in the UK chances are we would have 20 - 30 homegrown riders who would be at the top level within 10 years thus increasing the ammount of British riders in all 3 leagues and reducing the need to bring in overseas riders. Until that happens we will still be moaning on the forum about this topic in 5 and 10 years time. Exactly right Sarah but it has been said before and nothing ever happens corporately or otherwise. Malcolm Vasey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigFatDave Posted June 28, 2010 Report Share Posted June 28, 2010 I don't want to get into another argument but from the 'outside looking in', we (BFD, me, Steve Evans) and notable Danes can see that the problem you have is not the national league, its your junior program or lack of it, the answer is not to get rid of better riders because the are from another country, but look at how they got that good and copy them. It will take 5 years for a junior programme to start to show worth, but until you start you are always going to be 5 years away from seeing an improvement. Sometimes its a good thing to step back and have a look to see how other people do things; otherwise you get caught in the "I'm right and everyone else is out of step" thinking we've seen on here. The trouble with that is these people are always right - just ask them. The minute you pop your head up you get shot down in flames, kiwi; how could we know anything, we're from overseas? I'm beginning to wonder if its worth the bother. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spin king junior Posted June 28, 2010 Report Share Posted June 28, 2010 Yeah..opportunity?..One way or another, the kid was badly advised and was poached away from Scunthorpe. :rolleyes:, he was never "poached" away from Scunthorpe, there was a perfectly good reason why most of the youngster in the Scunthorpe team moved on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swift Saint Posted June 29, 2010 Report Share Posted June 29, 2010 he was never "poached" away from Scunthorpe, there was a perfectly good reason why most of the youngster in the Scunthorpe team moved on. And what would that be? Malcolm Vasey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montie Posted June 29, 2010 Report Share Posted June 29, 2010 And what would that be? Malcolm Vasey I cant wait for this answer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scribbler Posted June 29, 2010 Report Share Posted June 29, 2010 :rolleyes:, he was never "poached" away from Scunthorpe, there was a perfectly good reason why most of the youngster in the Scunthorpe team moved on. Money? Contract with an EL Club - so that they could be loaned to other clubs willing/able to pay? Promises of...? As Jame's case has (sadly) proved - expectations are not always fulfilled - on ether side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spin king junior Posted June 29, 2010 Report Share Posted June 29, 2010 And what would that be? Malcolm Vasey Fact is Malcom, i've been told in confidence why, and frankly i don't want to abuse that system. Just wanted people to stop saying that the Scunthorpe riders we're poached away from the club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swift Saint Posted June 29, 2010 Report Share Posted June 29, 2010 Fact is Malcom, i've been told in confidence why, and frankly i don't want to abuse that system. Just wanted people to stop saying that the Scunthorpe riders we're poached away from the club You clearly have no idea because there was no good reason as has been proved by what has happened. It is quite obvious not good to sign for a Club that has to rely on other Clubs to provide a team place when you nbeed all the track time that you can get. James is now left without a place something that would never have happened to him at Scunthorpe. Malcolm Vasey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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