Heathens Announce New Signing

[marcusthepom]

thank you for that,im very upset with what goes on.its hard to understand but i get more

help from australian sponsors than i do from british.one thing i can tell you is there is one promomoter that has supported the scholarship and he doesnt even have a rider in the scholarship.

 

its time to wake up ,give the british lads a fair go.its far to easy to get a ride in

the uk at the expense of good british lads.it also drains our local speedway tracks of talant,speedway is heading for s@@t heap unless the BSPA revise the rules.i think i got

more chance of walking again before that happens

[Vince]

BFD, as far as I can tell I didn't insult you. If I did it was far less that you are willing to dish out to others with the tiresome racist chant. I know you about as much as you know me, doesn't stop you giving your opinion!

Absolutely clear to see here that posts from those who are or have been actually involved with young British riders are saying pretty much the same thing.

It's not fatuous to point out that many of the posters on this topic have far more first hand experience of what is happening than you do.

[June]

It's amazing the difference in attitudes between BigFatDave and marcusthepom ... I believe that they're both ex-pats...

[/quote

im not ex pat thank you very much,i haved lived in australia for most of my life.

what really pisses me of about british speedway is the following.

you would rather import success rather than put the effort in to bring it on yourselfs.

you all moan and winge that you have no world class riders that are good enough

to either win the world solo championship or world team championships but do nothing

to help yourselfs acheive these goals.

importing young ozzies to fill a team spot held by a young english lad just stinks,i couldnt give a flying s@@t about dudley from here on in.

its the n/l not the elite league for gods sake........wake up please.....if you dont plant seeds you cant pick the crop when its ready.shame shame shame on you dudley.there are some wonderfully good british lads riding at the moment,put time into these lads dont piss them off because the grass looks greener on the other side of the fence.shame on you dudley.

]

Marcus, You have it exactly right to my way of thinking. Whats been said on here, and I include what Iv'e said myself could give the impression that we are anti Aussie. Its not that at all. In Britain we have 3 tiers of speedway, to give one tier ( N/L ) to our own youngsters to develop and progress isn't a big ask.

[marcusthepom]

hello vince please understand one thing BFD has a wonderful understanding of the sport,the n/l and speedway.hes worth hearing out and speaks many words of wisdom.

my comments are heated at times because i know how much wonderfull talant is locked

away in british youngsters.i just wish teams like dudley could see that for them selfs.

 

i dont always agree with BFD but in most cases his words are worth reading.im sure if any comments you two have written ,which may have upset you both, would only be a miss understanding.kiss and make up you two buff heads

[BigFatDave]

BFD, as far as I can tell I didn't insult you. If I did it was far less that you are willing to dish out to others with the tiresome racist chant. I know you about as much as you know me, doesn't stop you giving your opinion!

Absolutely clear to see here that posts from those who are or have been actually involved with young British riders are saying pretty much the same thing.

It's not fatuous to point out that many of the posters on this topic have far more first hand experience of what is happening than you do.

 

I'll tell you what, Vince, you put as much energy into having a go at people who think its clever to post "I hate Aussies' or "I'm fed up with Aussies in the NL" as you and others seem to want to put into having a go at me and others who may disagree with you and I'll listen to you. I'm still waiting for your response to that, but you've chosen to ignore it.

I've never claimed to be a world-wide authority on the sport or the font from whom all manna flows and I didn't come into this discussion to bignote or pontificate or pat myself on the back; unlike some I'm not here on a point-scoring exercise either: I'm simply an Aussie fan who sticks up for his own and knows how hard it is for Aussie kids who want to have a go at their chosen sport, and the way things work at the moment once they reach a certain level over here they have to head to the UK if they want to go any further, where they find that people like yourself want to erect artificial barriers against them to make it even harder. Promoters are simply doing what they do to make a dollar within the existing rules; if you don't like it then you'll have to work within the system to change it.

 

I'll reserve my right to express my opinion, particularly on posters who seek to vilify or discriminate against others because of their race or nationality. If you think that's a tiresome chant then I'll leave you and your mates to it, and I hope you're all very happy.

[BigFatDave]

hello vince please understand one thing BFD has a wonderful understanding of the sport,the n/l and speedway.hes worth hearing out and speaks many words of wisdom.

my comments are heated at times because i know how much wonderfull talant is locked

away in british youngsters.i just wish teams like dudley could see that for them selfs.

 

i dont always agree with BFD but in most cases his words are worth reading.im sure if any comments you two have written ,which may have upset you both, would only be a miss understanding.kiss and make up you two buff heads

Geez, Marcus, I've just spent half-an-hour thinking up a witty, pithy response to Vince and when I post it I find you've gone and taken the wind right outta my sails! Like you I get a bit passionate occasionally, but most folks realise my heart's in the right place, as I'm sure Vince's is.

 

Do I hafta kiss him?? He's not gonna try an' slip the tongue, is he?

[scribbler]

I'm simply an Aussie fan who sticks up for his own and knows how hard it is for Aussie kids who want to have a go at their chosen sport, and the way things work at the moment once they reach a certain level over here they have to head to the UK if they want to go any further...

 

And I'm a Brit fan who sticks up for her own and knows how hard it is for British kids who want to have a go at their chosen sport - and knows that once they reach a certain level over here many are sidelined because Australians head over here...and can't go to Australia and gain team experience because there aren't any Leagues.

 

We're 'singing the same song' to different tunes...

[rami]

Here's a thought drop Jon Armstrong and leave the new talent in.

 

What a ridiculous post

[rami]

 

importing young ozzies to fill a team spot held by a young english lad just stinks,i couldnt give a flying s@@t about dudley from here on in.

its the n/l not the elite league for gods sake........wake up please.....if you dont plant seeds you cant pick the crop when its ready.shame shame shame on you dudley.there are some wonderfully good british lads riding at the moment,put time into these lads dont piss them off because the grass looks greener on the other side of the fence.shame on you dudley.

 

 

Marcus the thing is you might not give a flying s@@t about dudley but there is over a thousand supporters who turn up at each heathens meeting who do, The management team of the heathens first priority is looking after the heathens and that is what they have done here, we have been struggling and the team needed stregthening, im sure if a suitable british rider had been available he would have been considered but nobody seems to be able to give just one name of a british rider who would fit the bill. Im as patriotic as anybody (and beleive me after watching the football this afternoon its not always easy !!) but you cant blame anybody at dudley for looking out for themselves - as i have said before they broke no rules - maybe its the bspa who you should be annoyed with who set the rules in the first place.

[cradleysaddler]

Can we drop the Dudley thing please.

 

No one complained when Jake Anderson took over from Adam McKinna or Jon Armstrong ( Older Brit ) took over from Ben Taylor.

 

At least Dudley gave James an opportunity at the start of the season. Whats the difference between that and the start of the season, when other teams included Aussies in their original line up. Surely it all adds up to the same thing, taking places of young British Riders.

 

So blame the BSPA and not the Heathens, they are giving themselves the best opportunity to be successful, which hopeully may bring a new track and consequently give riders more opportunities in the future.

[superguest]

The important issue here is not that Dudley have decided to bring in an Aussie, but that they've dropped a British rider from what is supposed to be a Development league for National ie British riders. I have nothing against the Aussies coming to Britain to make a career for themselves, but they shouldn't be using our training leagues in which to do it. The National league needs to lock it's doors and do what it should be doing, developing British riders.

[Fourentee]

I'm simply an Aussie fan who sticks up for his own and knows how hard it is for Aussie kids who want to have a go at their chosen sport, and the way things work at the moment once they reach a certain level over here they have to head to the UK if they want to go any further

 

I think "a certain level" is the point. I can't believe there are many fans on these shores who would object to Aussie (or indeed Kiwi if there are any about) riders coming over to try their hand at EL or PL racing. The crux is that, with Great Britain probably ranking about sixth in the world and without the facilities available in Denmark or Sweden, to name but two, the infrastructure does not look capable of supporting the development of British riders. And in that case, particularly given its remit, is it unreasonable to impose restrictions on what is basically the training league?

I appreciate that the situation is complicated by the varying demands of the tracks in the NL. Some are standalone and need a certain amount of commercial success, some are nursery circuits for their bigger PL brethren and so on. But we have to start somewhere. I was at Poole for the Wolves EL match earlier this year; Erik Gundersen had brought over four of the Danish under-15s (if I remember rightly) on smaller bikes. They were polished and talented; the big shock was when Gundersen mentioned casually in an interview over the public address system that there were a couple of hundred like them. Against that backdrop, and I'm trying hard not to go all little Englander over it, it's hardly surprising that there is unease over the influx of foreign riders at NL level.

[Albert]

Can we drop the Dudley thing please.

 

No one complained when Jake Anderson took over from Adam McKinna or Jon Armstrong ( Older Brit ) took over from Ben Taylor.

 

At least Dudley gave James an opportunity at the start of the season. Whats the difference between that and the start of the season, when other teams included Aussies in their original line up. Surely it all adds up to the same thing, taking places of young British Riders.

 

So blame the BSPA and not the Heathens, they are giving themselves the best opportunity to be successful, which hopeully may bring a new track and consequently give riders more opportunities in the future.

 

Yeah..opportunity?..One way or another, the kid was badly advised and was poached away from Scunthorpe...He was progressing well at Scunny before he upped n opted to sign for Coventry/Dudley, somewhere down the line his progression has been halted. Had the kid stayed at Scunny he'd of benefitted from plenty free practice, given time to develope, who knows how his career may have panned out....now the poor kids on the Scrapheap.

 

I'm with the majority on here..call it what you want..the third tier of British Speedway should be for the development of British talent only.

[rami]

Yeah..opportunity?..One way or another, the kid was badly advised and was poached away from Scunthorpe...He was progressing well at Scunny before he upped n opted to sign for Coventry/Dudley, somewhere down the line his progression has been halted. Had the kid stayed at Scunny he'd of benefitted from plenty free practice, given time to develope, who knows how his career may have panned out....now the poor kids on the Scrapheap.

 

I'm with the majority on here..call it what you want..the third tier of British Speedway should be for the development of British talent only.

 

The reason we are so far behind other nations is nothing to do with who is racing in the national league, the kids in denmark,sweden, australia etc can start racing when they are 6 or 7 years old, unless our boys take up grasstrack at an early age they dont have that opportunity - take young Nick Morris ok maybe not been racing 500s for long but he has been racing motorcycles over in australia since he was maybe 7 or 8 years old and it makes a huge difference, the scattering of aussies in the nl is so far down on the list of reasons why we are behind other nations.

 

Its a bit harsh to suggest because he lost his team place that Sarj is on the scrapheap, its a knockback for the kid but hes certainly not on the scrapheap!

[June]

The reason we are so far behind other nations is nothing to do with who is racing in the national league, the kids in denmark,sweden, australia etc can start racing when they are 6 or 7 years old, unless our boys take up grasstrack at an early age they dont have that opportunity - take young Nick Morris ok maybe not been racing 500s for long but he has been racing motorcycles over in australia since he was maybe 7 or 8 years old and it makes a huge difference, the scattering of aussies in the nl is so far down on the list of reasons why we are behind other nations.

 

Its a bit harsh to suggest because he lost his team place that Sarj is on the scrapheap, its a knockback for the kid but hes certainly not on the scrapheap!

I really do hope that he won't be on the scrap heap. It saddened me when he was one of 3 Scunny youngsters to be tempted away from us this year. Being dropped by Dudley must have knocked his confidence for 6. Dudley knew the level of speedway he had achieved when they signed him. Poor kid must feel gutted. to one so young and to be replaced by an Aussie.....oh dear I feel for him!

[SteveEvans]

Aussies are allowed in the league as the majority of the teams are 2nd teams for PL or EL tracks and they are using the league to feed talent. It's an unfortunate fact that there is more chance of getting a new Aussie on a false average than there is a new Brit, so in long term planning to win the league this is a strategy. Rather than bleating on about Australians, the better thing is that British Speedway creates a real youth speedway program, something that Australia has hence the current numbes in the UK and the huge amount on the wings. I think USA, a third world speedway nation unfortunately right now, has more Under 15's than the UK does.

[kiwi]

Aussies are allowed in the league as the majority of the teams are 2nd teams for PL or EL tracks and they are using the league to feed talent. It's an unfortunate fact that there is more chance of getting a new Aussie on a false average than there is a new Brit, so in long term planning to win the league this is a strategy. Rather than bleating on about Australians, the better thing is that British Speedway creates a real youth speedway program, something that Australia has hence the current numbes in the UK and the huge amount on the wings. I think USA, a third world speedway nation unfortunately right now, has more Under 15's than the UK does.

 

agree, and those aussies are in the league for a season at the very most and out again. whereas, and not picking on him but as an example jon armstrong has had how many seasons in a 'development league'

[rami]

agree, and those aussies are in the league for a season at the very most and out again. whereas, and not picking on him but as an example jon armstrong has had how many seasons in a 'development league'

 

And who are these kids going to learn from - Jon Armstrong is superb in the pits with the young kids, and had you been at weymouth on friday night you would have seen that he is also excellent entertainment. He also is coming back from a serious leg injury, and the other side of the coin is if there werent so many aussies in the premier league then people like jon armstrong would get a team place! So what your saying is its ok for the aussies to come over and race national league but british guys shouldnt be allowed if they are over a certain age

[kiwi]

And who are these kids going to learn from - Jon Armstrong is superb in the pits with the young kids, and had you been at weymouth on friday night you would have seen that he is also excellent entertainment. He also is coming back from a serious leg injury, and the other side of the coin is if there werent so many aussies in the premier league then people like jon armstrong would get a team place! So what your saying is its ok for the aussies to come over and race national league but british guys shouldnt be allowed if they are over a certain age

 

you're saying get rid of the better riders and put in the not so good.

 

 

 

And Jon maybe his thing should be as a great coach and manager then, employed by the team/league?

Edited June 27, 2010 by kiwi

[rami]

you're saying get rid of the better riders and put in the not so good.

 

And your saying that theres no place anywhere for the likes of john armstrong because hes to old for national league and wont get signed by a premier league team so he should what?? just retire - In my opinion i go to speedeway to be entertained, jon armstrong does that, take this new heathens signing, who says hes going to make it, who says hes going to be any better than jon armstrong, hes certainly not at this moment in time, so why should jon give his team place up to someone who might or might not make the grade. I dont understand where your coming from, plymouth another example there 2 best riders mark simmonds and seemend stephens on your theory should be forced to retire because they are past a certain age and in all fairness are not going to improve, doesnt matter that they both give great entertainment.

 

Why should he stop racing to become a coach, friday night he scored 15 points was involved in the race of the night and was excellent entertainment, but you think he should jack it in to become a coach - how old are you, what do you do for a job , maybe you should be forced to leave work and just paid a token amount to show others how to do your job - unbeleivable!

Edited June 27, 2010 by rami