Heathens Announce New Signing

[rami]

After your performance at Newport I wouldnt worry to much about making the play offs! Have you looked at the League table lately.

So you witnessed the performance at newport yet still think it wrong the management have moved to strengthen the team! conisdering the team that hammered us at newport had how many aussies in it? As Will said in the opening post until the rules are changed this will keep happening. You pass comment that the heathens scored a massive own goal by dropping Sarj and replacing him with an Aussie - explain how? The heathens are trying to establish themselves again, they need big crowds to try and make the council sit up and take notice and maybe help find a piece of land for a new track, does a team thats not competetive help keep them in the local press and help keep people coming through the turnstiles - i think not. If everyone else in this league was running with a team of young british kids then fair enough but they arent. The management have done what they think is best for the club - Thats there job, its upto the bspa to sort out the finer details!!

[Blazeaway]

No major problem with Aussies in the NL but those that come over should have a starting assesed average of 9.00 points.

[Swift Saint]

Oh no it isn't. Shows just how out of touch you are. As far as I know the National Development League replaced the Conference League then was replaced by the National League.

 

Do you know anything about anything in this country?

 

It has been British National Development League from day one and remains as such so get your facts straight for once.

 

I am very disappointed for James Sarjeant who deserves longer in my view to re-establish at his new Club.

 

Malcolm Vasey

[rami]

My view on this is that the structure is all wrong , and I don't think that we can call the National League the Development League.

The main problem is that different teams have different agenda's, the main problem is that there is a mix of different types of teams, some are stand alone teams like Dudley, Plymouth and Mildenhall, other are basically 2nd teams for high league teams.

With the case of Dudley they are a club that is trying to establish themselves, they are a club that needs success for (1) get fans through the door, (2) gain support to get a track.

I think the big problem we have at the moment with the young Aussie lads is that the ones that are using there British roots as a way and means to gaining a team place.

For me you cannot be British one minute, but an Aussie the next, if you are going to use your British roots then they must commit to this country career wise

I don't think put a ban on Aussies is a good idea, I think we need to include them, still go with one allow in each team, but no rider from Aussie should be allowed in this league from Australia just because his parents, grandparents or great grandparents were born here.

Also if we are going to take it seriously about a Development League we also have to look at the likes of Plymouth who track both Mark Simmonds and Seemond Stephens in the team is that right as well.

 

A great post that makes a lot of sense.

[montie]

A great post that makes a lot of sense.

 

Agreed but you can can look at it another way,Both Plymouth and Weymouth have had a tonking by a very in-experienced scunny team in the last few weeks and the likes of Worrall and Birks will have enjoyed and take great experience from riding against Stephens,Simmonds,Brown and Bekker

 

And the youngsters in these teams will get good info etc from the more experience riders in there teams such as Buzz and Compton

[Soul Crew]

Surely it comes down to if your good enough not your nationality? It's the whole attitude of letting everyone have a go that makes the British stuck in a rut, what happened to wanting to win and be the best?!

In any competitive sport its about winning not letting everybody have a go so nobody get's there feelings hurt.

[Gornal_Heathen]

The way I see this is that The Heathens need to be competetive to keep the gates they have been getting. I think they have stuck by James long enough, although I do feel sorry for him and wish him the best of luck. This team still has Lee Smart, Richard Franklin, Ashley Morris, Tom Perry & Jon Armstrong (although not young). Lee has been given a new lease of life, Richard and Ashley are continuing to progress and Tom is a rising star. In Jon's case then we seemed to be the only team willing to give him a chance. I'm pretty sure that if Will would of had the chance then he would of signed a British rider to replace James but the fact is there is no better British option. Until something is done about the rules then it will kepp happening, so stop having a pop at The Heathens and direct your anger/jealousy/disappointment towards the rule makers.

[Ben91]

Its a pity that some on here have already chosen to slag him off purely because of his Nationality, but that seems to be par for the course for the BSF.

 

Nobody is slagging him off, it's the circumstances in which has been brought in, I suspect you knew that and just wanted to stir though.

 

Having built a team well under the points limit at the start of the year that was packed with Brits I'd have thought you'd be happy with the approach the club took? Is it's the Heathens fault that Sarj has been in poor form and that the best option to re-jig the team within the rules happens to be an Aussie?

 

As Dyer has not turned a wheel for the Heathens and is pretty much unknown in Britain, to state that he is the best option is ridiculous. I'm sure that there would have been a proven British rider on a 6 point average somewhere.

 

I'm pretty sure that if Will would of had the chance then he would of signed a British rider to replace James but the fact is there is no better British option.

 

Again, how can you make that assumption when Dyer has not raced in the British League yet.

 

Oh no it isn't. Shows just how out of touch you are. As far as I know the National Development League replaced the Conference League then was replaced by the National League.

 

You can't tell someone that they are wrong based on an assumption of your own. Lucas was right too...

 

The whole "Aussies make sacrifices" thing doesn't wash with me either. If they want to come half way across the world to further their careers that is their perogative, it doesn't mean we have to hand them everything on a platter because they have done so. When it was the Conference League there were no commonwealth riders in the league and the lowest point of entry for a commonwealth rider was as a 7 point Premier League rider. Why we have decided to make things easier baffles me. I agree with lowering the assesed PL figure to 5 perhaps, as 7 is hard to achieve but that should be the lowest entry point for any commonwealth rider to British speedway, that way the decent riders will still come over and there will be less of a "lets have him because he's Australian" attitude. If there are commonwealth riders with patriality then the lowest point of entry could be, say a 3 point PL average or a 6 point NL figure, however this would depend on the rider racing as a Brit. If riders want to use our system then we should get some benefit from it.

Edited June 24, 2010 by RocketBen1

[bigend]

so why do they come to England ,is it because other countries do not wont foreign riders in there lower league's, as it stops the flow of there own talent coming through,and some of the English promoters don't give too hoots about there young British riders,

[21st century heathen]

As Dyer has not turned a wheel for the Heathens and is pretty much unknown in Britain, to state that he is the best option is ridiculous. I'm sure that there would have been a proven British rider on a 6 point average somewhere.

 

Two things in response to that.

 

1) I am still not all that familiar with all the riders at this level. Can you give me a list of Brits on a 6-point Brits that could have come in?

 

2) Being the best option for a club is not entirely about having the right average. If B'ham want to have a look at him with a view to next season, or perhaps beyond, it is a sensible option that he has a run out for the Heathens. We will be riding some meetings at PB so it will raise interest amongst the Brummies fans and perhaps raise attendance to the Heathens meetings a little. It's important that the Heathens can be a commercial success as well this season.

 

As I posted earlier - We've had half a season and unfortunately James has been unable to turn the corner. The stat's don't lie. It's not as though the Heathens have dropped someone in form. I'm sure James himself would admit it's been a disappointing run of form.

 

[June]

In an ideal N/L development team I'd like to see all british riders, with all teams using one elder team member ( over 30 yrs ) who the kids can look up to for experience. The elder rider ( Wayne Carter ) was very successful for Scunny in 2006/7. Then I'd like to see the PL go back to using reserves promoted from the N/L. Then all foreigners could be slotted into teams in the PL & EL leagues. I agree with Aussies having a higher average, dont know about 9 but I think it should be 7 like the Swedes and Danes etc. As for fans through the gates, every team needs those. I would imagine its not easy promoting teams within budgets. Something that Australia is spared )

[CrystalCastles]

simple facts are the league is what it is (covering a cross section of teams with different goals without it they wouldnt have a league)

 

its full of experienced riders whov been around for a long time and have found their natural level, full of quality ex premier league riders who bring much needed experience to teams....full of commonwealth riders given an oppurtunity to ride over here, and the 1 thing that is lacking is quality british young riders at the end of the day......people can delude themselves about that fact all they want....

 

the league needs to be competitive and professional if is to be considered challenging and progressive, without all the experience, commenwealth riders, and experienced conference/national league riders who have found their level it wouldnt be.....stop criticising promotions for doing whats within the rules for the best of their teams.....until we reach a point where their is a wealthpool of british talent (which their isnt) then lets have a league where the few potential gems that are coming through face competition cos without it they aint going to learn or get better, plus they can get advice from better riders,experienced riders.

 

with the development of the under 15 championship and the implement of a coaching team to develop british talent then hopefully in the next few years their will be the talent avaialble for teams to be built on a british basis

 

the problems lie in a lack of british talent, from the simple fact that in the uk speedway is a minority sport that has regressed backwards and is no longer at the forefront of producing talented riders on a world stage or even domestically, every other major speedway country has production lines (to varying degrees) of talent the uk doesnt and it will take time for this to be rectified and come to fruition..... promotions are doing whats best for the sport as a whole in the uk......it is pointless moaning about riders being dropped until a talent pool of british riders exists

[June]

The league as it is IS professional and exciting, at least it is at Scunny. Our last 2 NL meetings have been crackers, with all british youngsters and Buzz. With times just behind the prem times. This level of speedway is brilliant, without this system of bringing on our youngsters for promoting to the PL there is no other way that our british kids can progress . as said 2nd halves do not work. I want to see Briish speedway come good again, like it was in the 70s/80s. We want British Champions. our kids need this level of competative racing. I'm not against some of the lads whos level is N/L riding, ( 1 or 2 each team ) just lets keep it for the British lads.

[771neil]

so why do they come to England ,is it because other countries do not wont foreign riders in there lower league's, as it stops the flow of there own talent coming through,and some of the English promoters don't give too hoots about there young British riders,

 

 

This is the best posting on this thread and having spoken to alot of british rider el and pl they say the same poland, denmark, sweden all look after there own first. As for there isn t the british talent well there isn t but there won t be if you see the goings on we do then most would think twice before starting up.

[SteveEvans]

Let's keep it real here - The Heathens team is a joint project created by CVS and Patchett which is basically a feeder team for Wolves, Birmingham and Swindon. Now, due to the overwhelming number of speedway starved Heathens fans, this project has been a roaring success and it's been fabulous for these people to finally have a team. But one aspect here is that the team will to some extent be used to blood riders that can be used in the future by the senior clubs. The move for Dyer is obviously within the rules and you can't bitch at the promotion for making a legal league change. You can bitch at the league for the rules if you like.

 

The NL and the CL before it has always been torn between the standalone clubs and the clubs who run a 2nd team, often at a loss - it's almost two leagues within one. If you had 8 standalone clubs and 8 teams who wanted to run a 2nd team, you could have a National League and a Conference / Academy League seperately, though I doubt that would happen.

 

Mr Vasey - A second half league that paid 5 pounds / point would cost a whopping 30 quid per heat or 180 quid per match to run, plus travel. My point was if there was some bonus to a senior team for running a 2nd team (even at NL level) it would somehow become magically affordable!!!

[scribbler]

There are talented British youngsters - but only the brave/foolish bother to continue their racing. and their families continue sacrificing their time and money.

 

I'd love to see a two/three year ban on foreign riders in the National Development League and see how the League handled it and how much more the promoters supported their British riders - and whether they started offering the freebies they give foreign riders. If, after that time it was proved that young Brits were not good enough then let foreign riders back into the National Development League. Of course this would never happen because promoters would have to do something more than pick up a phone... they'd have to provide facilities and training to young Brits, rather than just buy vans, bikes etc. Most promoters have gotten lazy - reaching for their wallet is as much as they want to do. Of course you'd have to also insist that reserve berths and at least one rider in the main body of the team in the PL and EL were also reserved for Brits - just to ensure that the progress of British riders carried through to the top...

 

As I said in a preious post - I'm dreaming the impossible dream...

[Ben91]

Exactly, the Commonwealth riders may well add excitement etc to the league and there may be lots of positives to it, however the big negative is that they are stunting the progress of young Brits. I'm not so fussed by the older riders in the league tbh, they are British riders still after all. The solution is an obvious one, the points limit needs lowering at this level, that way more 3 point Brits will have to be used. We need to put the British riders first, sorry if we are raining on big fat daves parade but this is the British speedway forum and we want to see British riders in our British National Development League teams. Every other country put their own riders first so it's time we did the same for once.

[scribbler]

The solution is an obvious one, the points limit needs lowering at this level,

 

Which is what Rob Godfrey and Malcolm Vasey tried to fight for at the last AGM...and they started the season way below the points limit. Scunthorpe Saints - an all British team - aren't doing too badly... considering the multi national riders they're up against... but then again the promoter doesn't just put his hands to his wallet - Rob Godfrey works hard on the physical jobs required to make his teams successful and give British riders a chance...

[Jayne]

but then again the promoter doesn't just put his hands to his wallet -

 

 

So Buzz rides for £10 a point and 10p per mile then

[montie]

So Buzz rides for £10 a point and 10p per mile then

what you pay all yours £10 a point and 10 pence a mile then? think not