Dave Robinson

[Trees]

But Bryn surely they must use them when the facility is there and change their decision if necessary???

[Sir Jasper]

I would doubt that any referee would watch TV replays before making any decision during the course of any Sky TV match they are officiating at - afterall they wouldn't be able to consult such replays at any other match would they?

 

Yet in the past they have shown the referee's viewing the Sky replays, and even requesting further replays from Sky to ensure they get a decision totally right.

 

According to Middlo the reason given for Doyle's exclusion is that he went down and then stayed down!!! yes he could have perhaps got up, yet he could have easily been winded etc but the referee is not there to decide that. Some baffling decisions and to not make use of the technology available is bizarre.

[Trees]

It proved last night that riders HAVE to fall to get a decision for or against them which is why Doyle stayed down surely, Kelvin pointed it out two or three times later. Bad refereeing surely and another reason why ex-riders should be referees ..............

[Bryn]

But Bryn surely they must use them when the facility is there and change their decision if necessary???

 

On that basis Mother T, then surely the referees' association could insist on three or four cameras in different positions at ALL meetings to make things fair - and that clearly is not on! Why have one set of parameters to work within for televised matches and another set for others?

 

[Bryn]

It proved last night that riders HAVE to fall to get a decision for or against them which is why Doyle stayed down surely, Kelvin pointed it out two or three times later. Bad refereeing surely and another reason why ex-riders should be referees ..............

 

 

Are you 100% certain then Mother T, and prepared to cross your heart and hope to die if you're telling a fib, that you have NEVER criticised any decision (especially one going against Kings Lynn riders) by, for example, Mick Bates?

[Son of Shaleman]

I would doubt that any referee would watch TV replays before making any decision during the course of any Sky TV match they are officiating at - afterall they wouldn't be able to consult such replays at any other match would they?

 

 

Tongue in cheek comment, Bryn?

[Trees]

Why have one set of parameters to work within for televised matches and another set for others?

Because it's available Bryn!! It's like saying that because I might use a brush and dustbin to clean my carpet then a friend brings round her dyson I won't use it to clean because I always get on my hands and knees and sweep ................. ok not a good example but u know what I mean!! New technology, it's gotta be used to benefit the sport, perhaps a better analogy would be that way back when u might have used a bleeding megaphone for announcing speedway, then a wired mic system was put in one of the stadiums but you wanted to carry on using your megaphone cos that's what you always used! ??????

Are you 100% certain then Mother T, and prepared to cross your heart and hope to die if you're telling a fib, that you have NEVER criticised any decision (especially one going against Kings Lynn riders) by, for example, Mick Bates?

That's not what I saying above though, I just think that ex-riders "should" make better refs, I dunno about Mick Bates, he perhaps blows my theory out of the water LOL I guess they would all referee by their own standards type thing.

Edited May 4, 2010 by Trees

[Sir Jasper]

It proved last night that riders HAVE to fall to get a decision for or against them which is why Doyle stayed down surely, Kelvin pointed it out two or three times later. Bad refereeing surely and another reason why ex-riders should be referees ..............

 

Well this points to more inconsistency, Andersen got a whack and lifted all over the shop but because he never went down the race was not stopped, while earlier on at Wolverhampton Kennet and Sitera temed up on Lindgren and gave him a whack on both sides yet it was deemed an unsatisfactory start.

[Bryn]

Because it's available Bryn!! It's like saying that because I might use a brush and dustbin to clean my carpet then a friend brings round her dyson I won't use it to clean because I always get on my hands and knees and sweep ................. ok not a good example but u know what I mean!! New technology, it's gotta be used to benefit the sport, perhaps a better analogy would be that way back when u might have used a bleeding megaphone for announcing speedway, then a wired mic system was put in one of the stadiums but you wanted to carry on using your megaphone cos that's what you always used! ??????

 

That's not what I saying above though, I just think that ex-riders "should" make better refs, I dunno about Mick Bates, he perhaps blows my theory out of the water LOL I guess they would all referee by their own standards type thing.

 

 

So Mother T, by you saying "New technology, it's gotta be used to benefit the sport..." you are making a case that cameras / replays should be available at ALL matches aren't you? And that clearly ISN'T on!

And treat yourself to a dyson if they're that good!

[bigcatdiary]

If you watch the 3rd re-run of Heat 12 you will see that Madsen was rolling at the start. Certainly moving a lot more than Artur was the second time. As Grachan says PK rolled from gate 4 in the next heat as well.

It is the lack of consistency that is poor. You can also say the same about the decisions in Heat 3.

 

 

The consistency point is my bugbear, referees decisions vary so much on similair subjects but the Mrocka exclusion was ridiculous and it was fairly obvious that Doyle's front wheel had been caught earlier.

 

I do think the poor ones shouldnt do sky matches

[Trees]

So Mother T, by you saying "New technology, it's gotta be used to benefit the sport..." you are making a case that cameras / replays should be available at ALL matches aren't you? And that clearly ISN'T on!

YES, they should be available at every meeting 100%, just like air fences should and a new, reliable way of recording race times but they aren't, so speedway has to take advantage of them when they are surely??

 

 

[Pirate Baz]

I know I'm about to incur the wrath of everyone here, and ignoring the technology argument, as I didn't have that last night, I thought that Dave Robinson got most decisions right, but I sit in front of the referees box and get the same view.

Artur moved, both times, be it only slightly second time, but live on the night I thought he'd moved. I would concede that having come home and seen it again on the recording it was minimal, actually looked lees than 'live'.

I thought Jason Doyle fell on his own, and while the dirt deflector argument was made it was not clear in my mind on the replays, allied to the fact that Jason was not in a good position on the track which could have suggested (not that I'm saying he did) that he put the bike down.

I thought the decision to exclude Hougaard was right and a brave decision. I said at the time, and it was confirmed on the replays at home, that Hougaard looked accross at Bjarne's position on the track before cutting accross him and taking his front wheel. I don't think that he meant to bring him down, but blatantly cutting accross the line of another rider like that is not right, technically in front or not.

Just my view folks. Two sides to every argument.

[speedy den boy]

regarding video tech im sure most clubs have video people filming the meeting and im sure i read somewhere that re run videos helped the ref out at one lakeside meeting when he asked them for a video replay!!! makes sence as they stand next door to him in the box

Edited May 4, 2010 by speedy den boy

[bigcatdiary]

I would doubt that any referee would watch TV replays before making any decision during the course of any Sky TV match they are officiating at - afterall they wouldn't be able to consult such replays at any other match would they?

 

 

I would have thought the referee would have used anything that gives him the best idea of what happened so that he makes the correct decision everytime, unfortunately some of our speedway referees are generally incompetent and unable to make any decision least of all the right one.

[home straight]

On that basis Mother T, then surely the referees' association could insist on three or four cameras in different positions at ALL meetings to make things fair - and that clearly is not on! Why have one set of parameters to work within for televised matches and another set for others?

 

You're talking nonsense Bryn. If the Sky cameras are there they have to be used.

 

In an ideal world there'd be camereas at every match, but you can't refuse to use them when they are there because "we don't have cameras at all matches" That would be like me taking the air bags out of my car because there are still some cars on the road without them. Absurd.

Edited May 4, 2010 by home straight

[Blazeaway]

I know I'm about to incur the wrath of everyone here, and ignoring the technology argument, as I didn't have that last night, I thought that Dave Robinson got most decisions right, but I sit in front of the referees box and get the same view.

Artur moved, both times, be it only slightly second time, but live on the night I thought he'd moved. I would concede that having come home and seen it again on the recording it was minimal, actually looked lees than 'live'.

I thought Jason Doyle fell on his own, and while the dirt deflector argument was made it was not clear in my mind on the replays, allied to the fact that Jason was not in a good position on the track which could have suggested (not that I'm saying he did) that he put the bike down.

I thought the decision to exclude Hougaard was right and a brave decision. I said at the time, and it was confirmed on the replays at home, that Hougaard looked accross at Bjarne's position on the track before cutting accross him and taking his front wheel. I don't think that he meant to bring him down, but blatantly cutting accross the line of another rider like that is not right, technically in front or not.

Just my view folks. Two sides to every argument.

 

Agree 100%.

[Bryn]

You're talking nonsense Bryn. If the Sky cameras are there they have to be used.

 

In an ideal world there'd be camereas at every match, but you can't refuse to use them when they are there because "we don't have cameras at all matches" That would be like me taking the air bags out of my car because there are still some cars on the road without them. Absurd.

 

I'm not talking nonsense at all "home straight!" Whilst you personally might be of the opinion that Sky TV replays should be used in televised matches, an opinion you indeed have the perfect right to express, there's nothing whatsoever in the rulebook to say a ref can't refuse to use them or indeed has to use them!

Edited May 4, 2010 by Bryn

[Grachan]

I'm not talking nonsense at all "home straight!" Whilst you personally might be of the opinion that Sky TV replays should be used in televised matches, an opinion you indeed have the perfect right to express, there's nothing whatsoever in the rulebook to say a ref can't refuse to use them or indeed has to use them!

 

Maybe. But surely it's common sense to have a quick peek. Might make the ref prevent his/herself making an arse of themselves on live TV (particularly as the team managers and riders are clearly using the facility themselves).

 

Video has been at tracks for at least 20 years now and I guess all tracks have it. They used to run replays on incidents at Swindon, but don't any more. No idea why.

Edited May 4, 2010 by Grachan

[home straight]

I'm not talking nonsense at all "home straight!" Whilst you personally might be of the opinion that Sky TV replays should be used in televised matches, an opinion you indeed have the perfect right to express, there's nothing whatsoever in the rulebook to say a ref can't refuse to use them or indeed has to use them!

 

I really couldn't give two hoots what the rule book does or doesn't say. It's patently obvious that if the technology is there then it should be used.

 

If a referee chooses not to use all the information available to him, he's essentially stubbornly choosing ignorance and therefore can't be relied upon to make the correct calls.

[BWitcher]

Maybe. But surely it's common sense to have a quick peek. Might make the ref prevent his/herself making an arse of themselves on live TV (particularly as the team managers and riders are clearly using the facility themselves).

 

Video has been at tracks for at least 20 years now and I guess all tracks have it. They used to run replays on incidents at Swindon, but don't any more. No idea why.

 

Referees have used the replay facilities at Monmore many times in the past, even when Sky aren't present.