Liverpool Chads

[BOBBATH]

The emblem which is a man's cartoon face with his nose and hands sticking over a wall- I think it is something to do with the phrase "kilroy was here" which I think originated in World War One. Is that right?? also why the word "chad" is that something to do with the man. Can someone enlighten me on this.??

[Knowle]

The emblem which is a man's cartoon face with his nose and hands sticking over a wall- I think it is something to do with the phrase "kilroy was here" which I think originated in World War One. Is that right?? also why the word "chad" is that something to do with the man. Can someone enlighten me on this.??

 

If I remember correctly the motto that went with the cartoon was " What no --------- ? " and someone had said about Liverpool before it opened "What no Speedway?!". I think the man sticking over the wall was called a chad. It had no connection with Kilroy. Hope this helps however a Liverpudlian might have more info.

[DK Rides Again]

The emblem which is a man's cartoon face with his nose and hands sticking over a wall- I think it is something to do with the phrase "kilroy was here" which I think originated in World War One. Is that right?? also why the word "chad" is that something to do with the man. Can someone enlighten me on this.??

 

 

This is one of those things that has a few possible origins, but the most popular one is that it originated in America during WWII.

 

The story goes that there was shipyard inspector called Kilroy and his job was to count rivets, because the riveters got paid by the piece; the riveters would leave a chalk mark where they had finished and Kilroy would write the famous phrase to show that he had noted it.

 

The saying spread wherever American servicemen went (they would scribble it on barrack room walls, etc) and it became a Worldwide thing.

 

The cartoon was a separate thing and nobody knows when the two merged, but it could've been during the Korean war.

 

What is known is that he has a different name, depending on where you are; he's Chad in the UK, Mr Foo in Australia and I believe there was even a Canadian version, known as Herbie.

 

I can tell you that Chad was once a popular shortening of Charles over here, which was later replaced by Chas; I think it's still Chad in the US.

 

Edit: having read what Knowle wrote and being a complete anorak(!) I had to look it up; again, nobody really knows the origin of the cartoon (but it could be from a cartoonist called Chatterton, who signed himself 'Chat') but it sprung up during rationing and was associated with the phrase 'What, no bread/meat/eggs, etc'.

 

As rationing disappeared, 'What, no.......' also disappeared, to be replaced with 'Kilroy....'; given when Liverpool started, it's more than likely that 'What no speedway' would've struck a chord, but Kilroy and Chad became inextricably linked not long after.

Edited March 7, 2010 by DK Rides Again

[RobMcCaffery]

Wikipedia has an article on the subject of Chad/Kilroy. Yes I KNOW how reliable it is but it's a start ;-) I believe the character was called Mister Chad by the way.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chad_(graffiti)

 

There was also a theory that the cartoon was a corruption of a sine wave which loops up above a line, under then back over symmetrically. The chad nose was the central 'dip' and the hands the left and right curves.

 

Either way it was perhaps one of the more unfortunate uses of a very short-lived piece of fashionable culture that was soon very outdated. Knowing Liverpool I can imagine that anything silly that took the mickey out of wartime austerity would strike a chord locally though. I think the "What no speedway" angle is tenuous though.

 

Rob McCaffery

[Wessex Wanderer]

I thought the name Chads came from a card game of the immediate post war era. It featured "Mr Chad" looking over a wall saying "What no ......" with a different ending on every card. Can't remember what any of the missing items were and have absolutely no idea of the rules but the general theme of the game would seem to fit in well with the rationing in force at the time.

 

Can't be more specific as I was only a very young child then so it was all a bit before my time. And I don't get to say THAT very often these days!!!

 

As far as Kilroy is concerned I too have always understood it to be the US Navy story (was Kilroy originally a stores checker). His popularity in the UK was enhanced by the singer Joe Brown who always made a number of references to him during his act.

 

[zonkers]

Thought this topic said Liverpool "Chavs" at first !

 

How funny - I used to doodle Chad in my exercise books at school (as I'm guessing did many others !

 

http://www.mrchad.co.uk/ (even has his own website !! )

 

http://www.openwriting.com/archives/2005/0...had_and_kil.php

Edited March 8, 2010 by zonkers

[ianmartin]

Thought this topic said Liverpool "Chavs" at first !

 

How funny - I used to doodle Chad in my exercise books at school (as I'm guessing did many others !

 

http://www.mrchad.co.uk/ (even has his own website !! )

 

http://www.openwriting.com/archives/2005/0...had_and_kil.php

 

 

Crikey!!! - that takes me back. I did too.

[BOBBATH]

Thanx to everybody for answering this I found it very interesting and informative. Having left UK in 1968 it is interesting how the language changes-new words come in-others change meaning. One that is unique to UK is "chav"-no Canadian would know what that meant- I think I understand the meaning -anyone know when it became current and who first introduced it. I think one of the strengths of the English language is its flexibility-rules change-for example who now bothers with the correct usage of "who and whom" which was drummed into us(I've long since forgotten the rule and now it doesn't matter).

[DK Rides Again]

Thanx to everybody for answering this I found it very interesting and informative. Having left UK in 1968 it is interesting how the language changes-new words come in-others change meaning. One that is unique to UK is "chav"-no Canadian would know what that meant- I think I understand the meaning -anyone know when it became current and who first introduced it. I think one of the strengths of the English language is its flexibility-rules change-for example who now bothers with the correct usage of "who and whom" which was drummed into us(I've long since forgotten the rule and now it doesn't matter).

 

 

It's probably got it's roots in a choice of Romani words, 'chavi' meaning child, 'chavo' meaning boy and 'chavvy' meaning youth.

 

Apparently, there's a Geordie slang term, 'charva' meaning a rough child and it's likely that is where it enters our language, but nobody knows for certain.

 

The first group of people I heard it refer to, were the youth of the Medway towns, mainly Chatham (they were also refered to by some less than complimentary terms involving Gypsies, so there's that Romani influence again); I lived and worked near that area from the late 90s and it was in fairly common usage then, by the mid 2000s it was everywhere.

 

I also love the way English evolves, although I'm not too impressed with the introduction of text speak into written word, that's not evolution, just laziness.

 

Hope that helps M8

[iris123]

Chav or chavvy was used as a greeting by some at my school in Mitcham in the early 70s.There were quite a few gypsies and/or romanies at my school.It was normally a friendly greeting of "alright chavvy?".Seems to have taken on an altogether different meaning these past few years

Edit:wouldn't believe everything you read on Wikepedia

Edited March 10, 2010 by iris123

[RobMcCaffery]

Edit:wouldn't believe everything you read on Wikepedia

 

Any source of information should always be viewed critically, particularly when opinion is involved. However it would be downright stupid to take the opposite view and blindly ignore Wikipedia.

 

A few years back when researching that part of Kent as part of my Sittingbourne work I happened upon a website called 'sheppeyisscum' which listed the education system for the island as something like 6 primary schools, two secondary and a prison and also listed the best pubs to find a fight in.

 

To get back to the point, this then developed into 'chavscum' as the organisers decided to focus on the youth market

 

Rob McCaffery.

Edited March 10, 2010 by rmc

[DK Rides Again]

Edit:wouldn't believe everything you read on Wikepedia

 

 

I rarely do, I normally prefer my collection of dictionaries and etymologies, although Wiki often links to some of these.

[RobMcCaffery]

I rarely do, I normally prefer my collection of dictionaries and etymologies, although Wiki often links to some of these.

 

I mainly only use it for popular culture such as music or sport where the information isn't that important and the usually obvious garbage can often be quite amusing (cf. Bob Holness' alleged playing of the sax solo on Gerry Rafferty's Baker Street). While the system is obviously open to abuse references are usually quoted to support points made and where they are absent the site usually carries a comment or warning.

 

Despite the drawbacks it has its uses, as I say just extra caution is required.

 

By the way dictionaries and etymologies cannot be totally relied upon either, nor can encyclopaedias. The core of any search for knowledge is to take information from as many sources as possible, ideally primary and then to attempt to filter out bias and reconcile the various 'facts' that are so presented, always using the maxim "history is written by the winners".

 

However when it comes to discussing the use of a dated piece of popular culture on a speedway race jacket and since I don't have a subscription to an online encyclopedia service life really is too short to do more than refer to Wikipedia, to be quite honest.

 

Rob McCaffery.

 

[AndyM]

Chav or chavvy was used as a greeting by some at my school in Mitcham in the early 70s.There were quite a few gypsies and/or romanies at my school.It was normally a friendly greeting of "alright chavvy?".Seems to have taken on an altogether different meaning these past few years

Edit:wouldn't believe everything you read on Wikepedia

So not "Council Housed And Violent" then?

[WIE-JA]

Out of curiosity, where was the Liverpool stadium? Was it in the city or on the outskirts and does anyone know what lead to its demise?

[Ron Butler]

As an old codger of 77 years I remember Chad as an integral part of my childhood.

 

He was a very popular cartoon type character consisting of a hairless male head complete with a large nose and a pair of hands peering over a brick wall and commenting on the extreme shortage of essentials to daily life such as cigarettes, beer, and chocolate etc. The caption read 'Wot no beer!' (or other greatly missed essential of daily life.]

 

Chad appeared officially in newspapers and unofficially in places where we schoolkids could reproduce him with the aid of a piece of chalk provided (unofficially!) by 'Teacher'.

 

Mr Chad did much to relieve the dark days of World War Two for a multitude of people. You could say he was something of a national pin-up.

 

Perhaps the use of this character on the Liverpool team colours was linked to the fact that the town docks were the once busy port through which such delights of life no longer flowed.

Edited March 11, 2010 by Ron Butler

[Tsunami]

It's probably got it's roots in a choice of Romani words, 'chavi' meaning child, 'chavo' meaning boy and 'chavvy' meaning youth.

 

Apparently, there's a Geordie slang term, 'charva' meaning a rough child and it's likely that is where it enters our language, but nobody knows for certain.

 

The first group of people I heard it refer to, were the youth of the Medway towns, mainly Chatham (they were also refered to by some less than complimentary terms involving Gypsies, so there's that Romani influence again); I lived and worked near that area from the late 90s and it was in fairly common usage then, by the mid 2000s it was everywhere.

 

I also love the way English evolves, although I'm not too impressed with the introduction of text speak into written word, that's not evolution, just laziness.

 

Hope that helps M8

 

 

You are correct. A 'charva' in the provence of Geordieland is usually female, used to be adorned in everything Burberry but now predominently in anything pink, large earings and excess jewellery, hair drawn back severely back off the face into a ponytail, never worked, chews all the time, swears like it's normal, smokes heavy and likes a drink and is always on the mobile.

BTW the bairn that she is pushing is also dressed like her and is in the best pushchair that the benefits office can provide. Thinks Tories are a waste of space.

 

Edited March 12, 2010 by Tsunami

[RobMcCaffery]

.......hair drawn back severely back off the face into a ponytail.....

 

Known in some parts down south as a "Croydon facelift".

 

Rob McCaffery.

[Tsunami]

Known in some parts down south as a "Croydon facelift".

 

Rob McCaffery.

 

Yes, I forgot there is nearly always a heavily arched fringe over the forehead to add more style. The pigtail is held in place with very colourful 'scrunchies' (elasticated rings with cloth around them).

 

[BOBBATH]

Had to laugh at Croydon Facelift-think I'll get one myself- a Canadian word that I think is unique to us is "chesterfield" meaning sofa or settee(latter of Indian origin)-so a Canadian chav might say"I m going to watch telly , have a beer and crisps and lie on the chesterfield"!!!!