speedyguy Posted January 22, 2010 Report Share Posted January 22, 2010 (edited) After the passing of so many decades, Speedyguy, I feel that a more appropriate Latin tag is ........ad nauseum! Correct - but no matter how much "the facts" surrounding JSH are disproved these days they will always live on. Edited January 22, 2010 by speedyguy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianmartin Posted January 22, 2010 Report Share Posted January 22, 2010 Correct - but no matter how much "the facts" surrounding JSH are disproved these days they will always live on. That is why JSH is a ............................................LEGEND. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norbold Posted January 23, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2010 That is why JSH is a ............................................LEGEND. The problem is, Ian, is that it does a real disservice to the people who REALLY brought speedway to this country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedyguy Posted January 23, 2010 Report Share Posted January 23, 2010 (edited) The problem is, Ian, is that it does a real disservice to the people who REALLY brought speedway to this country. Here's an interesting point. Are we blaming an innocent man - ie Johnnie Hoskins for something he did not claim but what others wrote about him? --- In oldtimespeedway@yahoogroups.com, "fastfire212" <fastfire212@...> wrote: > > John Hoskins wrote many books and articles over the years but did he in any of them make claims that he invented speedway and he was at High Beech or involved with it in 1928 or are these all appendixes to his reputation made by certain speedway writers over the years. That needs sorting out because we may be blaming Hoskins for something he didn't do but what other people decided to put pen to paper about him. Edited January 23, 2010 by speedyguy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norbold Posted January 23, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2010 (edited) Here's an interesting point. Are we blaming an innocent man - ie Johnnie Hoskins for something he did not claim but what others wrote about him? --- In oldtimespeedway@yahoogroups.com, "fastfire212" <fastfire212@...> wrote: > > John Hoskins wrote many books and articles over the years but did he in any of them make claims that he invented speedway and he was at High Beech or involved with it in 1928 or are these all appendixes to his reputation made by certain speedway writers over the years. That needs sorting out because we may be blaming Hoskins for something he didn't do but what other people decided to put pen to paper about him. I don't think anyone here is blaming Hoskins over High Beech, just lazy historians who can't be bothered to do the proper research. However, it is the case that Hoskins several times claimed to have "invented" speedway, which is not true either. Though once again the real fault lies with lazy research. Edited January 23, 2010 by norbold Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted January 23, 2010 Report Share Posted January 23, 2010 Do we know when these myths started?Pre war or post war period?And it is of course a terrible slap in the face for serious historians of our sport that the FIM of all people continue to propogate such things Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedyguy Posted January 23, 2010 Report Share Posted January 23, 2010 Do we know when these myths started?Pre war or post war period?And it is of course a terrible slap in the face for serious historians of our sport that the FIM of all people continue to propogate such things Myths usually start when an error is made by an incorrect reference to an original source. Or worse still, the original writer got it wrong in the first case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyclone Posted January 23, 2010 Report Share Posted January 23, 2010 Do we know when these myths started?Pre war or post war period?And it is of course a terrible slap in the face for serious historians of our sport that the FIM of all people continue to propogate such things Was the article in the FIM publication attributed to a named fiction writer ? Perhaps the FIM should be made aware of the error of their ways by a well respected historian on here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norbold Posted January 23, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2010 Was the article in the FIM publication attributed to a named fiction writer ? Perhaps the FIM should be made aware of the error of their ways by a well respected historian on here I believe they already have by a well-known Australian historian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedyguy Posted January 23, 2010 Report Share Posted January 23, 2010 I believe they already have by a well-known Australian historian. I'm not sure if the person you indicate has been in touch from dealings I have with down-under at the moment, but a prominent colleague of yourself is on the matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norbold Posted January 23, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2010 Yes, yes, speedyguy. I heard you the first time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedyguy Posted January 23, 2010 Report Share Posted January 23, 2010 (edited) Yes, yes, speedyguy. I heard you the first time! Shock for me! I didn't know that three messages had been transmitted. I'll hit the delete key. Edited January 23, 2010 by speedyguy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Posted January 24, 2010 Report Share Posted January 24, 2010 (edited) It is the purpose of history to get as near to the truth as possible and to give credit (or damnation) to those who made it and not let others bathe in the un deserved limelight or notoriety Whoever wrote the piece in the FIM mag. just cobbled together some un researched stories and in so doing caused an injustice to history and to those who created it. I do not think anyone has set out to denigrate Jonnie Hoskins as a person; I/We just want to get at the truth. I/we are not out to “get” Jonnie Hoskins. Hoskins was a great showman and promoter and I wish we had more like him in speedway today! It has been suggested that Hoskins himself is not responsible for these myths, this may be true? (There are I think articles attributed to Hoskins where he says he invented speedway and brought it to England?) But Hoskins is oft quoted as saying that he invented Speedway, this may have been a tongue in cheek statement ?. Ian Hoskins has I believe gone on record as saying his father invented and introduced speedway to England, when these statements have been challenged Ian has defended his father’s mythical stories vigorously and indeed insulted a well know Australian historian. So the son carries on the myths. It also begs the question where did Ian hear the stories? Like all good showman JH could tell a good story, he knew how to spice things up ! he knew the value of self publicity “I invented speedway etc” would have done much for his kudos (er... assuming he actually claimed it) I await the reply from Ian Hoskins Edited January 24, 2010 by Nigel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Posted January 24, 2010 Report Share Posted January 24, 2010 Was the article in the FIM publication attributed to a named fiction writer ? Dan Brown ! Or perhaps a writer of political speeches Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedyguy Posted January 25, 2010 Report Share Posted January 25, 2010 (edited) Dan Brown ! Or perhaps a writer of political speeches It was written by Marc Petrier. I know that a much respected English speedway historian has already contacted the FIM about the article in their magazine - which most times gives speedway excellent coverage. Edited January 25, 2010 by speedyguy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Posted January 29, 2010 Report Share Posted January 29, 2010 To quote Jim Blanchard from the 'Speedway History Forum'...................Hope you dont mind Jim Quote:- Steve Wright in the afternoon on BBC Radio two has the definitive answer with one of their 'factoids'. The day before yesterday one included the following read out by Janey Lee Grace. It was, and I paraphrase. 'The first motorcycle speedway race took place at Maitland Australia in 1925' -: un quote Still I suppose the answer is in line with the intellectual level of the Programme Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kennylane Posted January 29, 2010 Report Share Posted January 29, 2010 To quote Jim Blanchard from the 'Speedway History Forum'...................Hope you dont mind Jim Quote:- Steve Wright in the afternoon on BBC Radio two has the definitive answer with one of their 'factoids'. The day before yesterday one included the following read out by Janey Lee Grace. It was, and I paraphrase. 'The first motorcycle speedway race took place at Maitland Australia in 1925' -: un quote Still I suppose the answer is in line with the intellectual level of the Programme No it was in 1923. Or was it 1904 in Ipswich as somebody suggested a while back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobMcCaffery Posted January 29, 2010 Report Share Posted January 29, 2010 To quote Jim Blanchard from the 'Speedway History Forum'...................Hope you dont mind Jim Quote:- Steve Wright in the afternoon on BBC Radio two has the definitive answer with one of their 'factoids'. The day before yesterday one included the following read out by Janey Lee Grace. It was, and I paraphrase. 'The first motorcycle speedway race took place at Maitland Australia in 1925' -: un quote Still I suppose the answer is in line with the intellectual level of the Programme If you listen to Steve Wright that's just the garbage that you should expect. Factoid = poorly-researched piece of irrelevant information smugly handed-out to the very gullible, passed-off as 'cleverness'. Rob McCaffery Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norbold Posted February 4, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 No it was in 1923. Or was it 1904 in Ipswich as somebody suggested a while back. Neither. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kennylane Posted February 4, 2010 Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 Neither. I now think it was Pietermartizburg in South Africa in 1905, although I was told some time back that a meeting took place in Calais France in the late 1890s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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