2010 Grand Prix wildcards

[Jacques]

Ok so you don't like Harris but in his last season in the GP Richardson was certainly more embarassing to watch IMO

 

When has he said he doesn't like Chris Harris ?

 

 

He has however, highlighted the unprofessional and disgraceful way Chris Harris conducted himself in the CWR interview..

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 15, 2009 by Jacques

[Mylor]

I was uncomfortable with bomber's inclusion too but if you were forced to choose a brit on merit you'd surely have to go with the British Champion. With, hopefully, some dirt on the GP tracks surely he'll do a little better next year. Still not a top eight finisher though methinks but he should finish the year with more confidence.

[shadow]

Don't winge ? he's done nothing but winge about Nicholls the last two seasons ..and still going on bout him all the radio last week ....he causes nothing but trouble at cov and team gb because not old enough to sort out his tiff with scott .

 

Thank gawd for that - someone else who refuses to be blinded by the sun that seems to shine from a certain location other than in the sky.

 

Quite frankly I've not been impressed by this alleged ongoing spat between the pair of them, but I was SERIOUSLY unimpressed with the childish umprofessional 'playground-like' almost name-calling on a public radio programme by one Mr Harris. Time to grow up now.

 

I'm not party to what happens or is said in the pits or who does or does not get on with who. However, I will ask one question. If Nicholls was so roundly disliked at Coventry by his team mates, how did they manage to 'put asside their differences' so well to allow them to pull together so completely to wipe the floor with all opposition in 2007? I may be completely wrong, but that's not the behaviour of a team that hates their skipper so vehemently as has been alleged.

 

However, this is not a Coventry or Harris v Nicholls thread, so back to the subject at hand...

 

I agree with what has been said about Rico not being worthy of a place in the GPs. Equally, reinforcing the delusion that Harris is so wonderful by giving him another go in the GPs when he was so far off the pace helps neither him, the credibility of the GPs or British speedway in general. Until Harris gets a wake up call from not being in the GPs and moved out of his cosy Coventry comfort zone he won't be given the incentive or test of his determination needed to make the changes necessary to progress any further.

 

The GP organisers were derided for continually giving Nicholls a wildcard, but he was never that far down the previous season's scoresheet when they did - so surely now Harris should receive the same 'beggar' status that was harshly bestowed on Nicholls. I also don't believe Tai was either ready for or justified a place either - just yet. There are plenty of other non-Brits ahead in the pecking order.

 

So no Brits in the GPs would be my vote for next year - at least that way we wouldn't give other countries justifiable cause to complain about the special treatment we receive or, worse, to take pity on us for needing a leg up every year. Lets see the Brits get there by rights and restore some credibility.

[Maccas]

Nothing could more embrarassing than watching someone out of camera shot as harris was most of the year ....maybe if he cut out staying up most of the night before a gp it would help. ?

 

If you think Harris was bad for that then get ready for Holder, It wouldn't surprise me if he turned up for GPs with a hangover.

[BUDGIE]

Silly me, I thought they were representing GB.

 

 

The thought that they represent GB is just silly.

 

They are English and they represent England

[BUDGIE]

So no Brits in the GPs would be my vote for next year

 

 

..but with the greatest respect you have no say in it, or any money at risk.

 

 

[Sprog1]

..but with the greatest respect you have no say in it, or any money at risk.

 

Daft comment. None of us have any say in it or any money at risk. We're still entitled to discuss it. Its interesting to see what other people think even if we don't agree with them. Thats the whole point of the forum.

[srbramble]

Gollob, Lindgren, Andersen, Hancock, Crump, Pedersen, Sajfudinov, Holta, Hampel, Holder. More than enough reasons why Harris' inclusion is a complete waste of time. And before anybody says it, Woffindens inclusion is for totally different reasons to Harris, so no comparisons please.

Edited November 16, 2009 by srbramble

[DunRobin]

Thank gawd for that - someone else who refuses to be blinded by the sun that seems to shine from a certain location other than in the sky.

 

Quite frankly I've not been impressed by this alleged ongoing spat between the pair of them, but I was SERIOUSLY unimpressed with the childish umprofessional 'playground-like' almost name-calling on a public radio programme by one Mr Harris. Time to grow up now.

 

I'm not party to what happens or is said in the pits or who does or does not get on with who. However, I will ask one question. If Nicholls was so roundly disliked at Coventry by his team mates, how did they manage to 'put asside their differences' so well to allow them to pull together so completely to wipe the floor with all opposition in 2007? I may be completely wrong, but that's not the behaviour of a team that hates their skipper so vehemently as has been alleged.

 

However, this is not a Coventry or Harris v Nicholls thread, so back to the subject at hand...

 

I agree with what has been said about Rico not being worthy of a place in the GPs. Equally, reinforcing the delusion that Harris is so wonderful by giving him another go in the GPs when he was so far off the pace helps neither him, the credibility of the GPs or British speedway in general. Until Harris gets a wake up call from not being in the GPs and moved out of his cosy Coventry comfort zone he won't be given the incentive or test of his determination needed to make the changes necessary to progress any further.

 

The GP organisers were derided for continually giving Nicholls a wildcard, but he was never that far down the previous season's scoresheet when they did - so surely now Harris should receive the same 'beggar' status that was harshly bestowed on Nicholls. I also don't believe Tai was either ready for or justified a place either - just yet. There are plenty of other non-Brits ahead in the pecking order.

 

So no Brits in the GPs would be my vote for next year - at least that way we wouldn't give other countries justifiable cause to complain about the special treatment we receive or, worse, to take pity on us for needing a leg up every year. Lets see the Brits get there by rights and restore some credibility.

Must agree, the sooner our so called English/British super stars are given a kick up the a*s, the better. They should be forced to qualify on ability through the GP qualifying rounds. No place for winning the "Mickey Mouse British Riders Championship"!

 

[BUDGIE]

We're still entitled to discuss it. Its interesting to see what other people think even if we don't agree with them. Thats the whole point of the forum.

 

Absolutely agree that we are entitled to discuss it, and it is very interesting, however some people continue to make suggestions that would cost the organisers loads of money and seem unable to accept that money is an issue.

 

It is a very real issue, and unfortunately we are stuck with it.

 

Me, I'd like to see 15 English riders in the SGP, but I accept that we are a little short of class to achieve that, and anyone who won from that sort of field wouldnt be a worthy world champion.

 

[srbramble]

Absolutely agree that we are entitled to discuss it, and it is very interesting, however some people continue to make suggestions that would cost the organisers loads of money and seem unable to accept that money is an issue.

 

It is a very real issue, and unfortunately we are stuck with it.

 

Me, I'd like to see 15 English riders in the SGP, but I accept that we are a little short of class to achieve that, and anyone who won from that sort of field wouldnt be a worthy world champion.

 

Then it wouldn't be a world championship, it would be a british championship, and we already have one of those, and we struggle to fill that with quality riders.

[houdi]

Well if people want it all being decided on merit,how about just having 1 nominated rider.Tai being a Brit would guarantee at least 1 one British representative,he is young and alot of people see him as a future world champion,so give him the wild card pick.

Then perhaps 9th and 10th in the GP's should be automatically seeded,after all the 9th best GP rider would surely generally be in the top 15 riders in the world.Same with 10th.That would mean Hans and Freddie would have earnt a GP place.

Finally award the last GP spot to the 4th highest scorer from the actual GP qualifier,that was Freddie but as he has would have already qualified it would go to the 5th highest scorer ie Bomber.

Therefore the 4 extra riders next year would be Hans,Freddie,Tai and Bomber who then would have largely been picked on merit,rather than the haphazard method presently used.

[21st century heathen]

In Ulamek's case, based on finishing ABOVE Harris in the 2009 GPs, or didn't you spot that from your Brandon bunker?

 

He did, but his position did not qualify him for next season. So he should be considered by the same critera that ensured Harris' inclusion. Granted that's partly because of his nationality, but not entirely.

 

Ah right, so it's not based on ability, it's not even nationality (as most of us suspected), it's all down to Tai's age. Bless.

 

Totally ignoring the reasoning I gave. Shame.

 

Rico was crap in his last season in the GP, didn't even make the GP Quali Final this season and is not the current British Champion. Domestic form is not the only factor, though you are right in stating Rico's higher averages. Lindback was dreadful in his last GP season and Zagar dropped out becuase he failed to qualify. I won't keep saying the same thing over and over but just one more time - Bomber finished higher than them in the qualofying process so his inclusion ahead of all three of these riders in entirely justified and no justification to the contrary has been given yet.

 

Richardson is far and away in every sense possible the best British rider at present and has been for a few years now.

 

Not really. How many times has he been British Champion compared to Nicholls and Harris?

 

No it doesn't. Harris is only the World No. 14 because there are only 15 permanent riders in the GP series.

 

Didn't spot the wink then?

 

[wotnoaj]

21stCH, I don't see how you can say it's only partly down to nationality, it's totally down to nationality and we all know it.

Let us pretend Ulamek/Zager were British, do you think Harris would have been chosen over them?

 

It's all down to this strange logic that not having two/any Brits would have an effect on the audience.

[orion]

Not really. How many times has he been British Champion compared to Nicholls and Harris?

 

As already been say about 20 times the gp's bar cardiff are not run in britain rico set up's gating etc make him a much better rider than Harris and Nicholls outside the uk as the fact and figures tell you that .

 

Not hard to follow is it ?

[Ghostwalker]

Not really. How many times has he been British Champion compared to Nicholls and Harris?

 

last year Zorro became Swedish champion, does that automatically mean the he is a

better rider then Fredrik Lindgren, Amdreas Jonsson, Jonas Davidsson?

 

This year THJ finished 3rd, does that make him better then

PK, Lindbäck, Davidsson, Nermark?

 

or when Harris won at Cardiff did that make him the best rider in the world?

 

its the same with the GP challenge.

Zorro finished ahead of Harris, Lindgren, Miedzinski ...

does that mean that Zorro is a better rider then them?

 

My point is that ONE race is not sufficient to decide who is the best rider.

Because why did he win?

because he is the best? because he was lucky?

Because he had a better gate? because the track

suited him better then the others?

 

while the results from an entire season gives you a better idea about who

is the best rider because in the latter case the riders have raced against

other and allot of other riders of various skill, on allot of different types of tracks.

Simply an entire season gives allot more input about a riders skill then just a 5-6 heats

one night, on one track against a fewer amount of opponents.

[Cornishman]

My point is that ONE race is not sufficient to decide who is the best rider.

 

 

If thats the case, why do so many fans want to see a one off world championship return?

[Parsloes 1928 nearly]

If thats the case, why do so many fans want to see a one off world championship return?

 

Er, because you didn't have to win just one race to win it...!!!

[21st century heathen]

21stCH, I don't see how you can say it's only partly down to nationality, it's totally down to nationality and we all know it.

Let us pretend Ulamek/Zager were British, do you think Harris would have been chosen over them?

 

It's all down to this strange logic that not having two/any Brits would have an effect on the audience.

 

I say only in part because once you (not you personally necessarily) accept that there will probably always be two Brits in the series you have to assess who will best represent his country. Harris' nomination can be justified.

 

As already been say about 20 times the gp's bar cardiff are not run in britain rico set up's gating etc make him a much better rider than Harris and Nicholls outside the uk as the fact and figures tell you that .

 

Not hard to follow is it ?

 

You're right as a general comment. But if being national champion and finishing higher in the qualifying process is to have any value whatsoever then Harris is the obvious choice as currently the best Brit. If being the highest placed Brit in the qualifying rounds means nothing then where is the incentive for any Brit to enter in future? Besides didn't Nicholls qualify by right when Richardson last failed to qualify? And as I stated previously Harris has two GP medals to Rico's one and I imagine they have competed in roughly the same number of GPs.

 

last year Zorro became Swedish champion, does that automatically mean the he is a

better rider then Fredrik Lindgren, Amdreas Jonsson, Jonas Davidsson?

 

 

its the same with the GP challenge.

Zorro finished ahead of Harris, Lindgren, Miedzinski ...

does that mean that Zorro is a better rider then them?

 

Zorro is the national champion and finished higher than any of his countrymen in the qualifying rounds. His place in the GP series next season is fully justified.

 

If you think that one race is not enough to show who the best rider is I assume you don't like the current format whereby the GP Champion is decided in a one-off race? A rider could qualify for the final having only scored six points and recorded second in the semi-final and go on to beat a rider that has recorded six straight wins. Surely that's not right?

 

-----------------------

 

Everyone would have a different idea of who the best 15 riders in the world are and I doubt there would ever be 100% agreement between the FIM, SKY (or other tv companies), the fans or even the riders. If you simply want to select the best 15 riders in the world there would still be arguments over the last few places awarded. If you want a qualifying process then the likes of Zorro and Harris can have their place in the series justified while the likes of Lindback and Zagar miss out. A lot of people want to see the one-off final return. I dread to think what the reaction to some of the surprise exits/surprise qualifications would be like on here.

 

Personally I think the balance between automatic qualification, qualification through the various rounds and nominations is about right. As someone else already stated - it gives the chance to put in a rider that may have missed out more through injury than any other reason, and also riders for commercial purposes. Like it or loathe it the latter must be a consideration. If there were still a Slovenian GP I would have expected to see Zagar get the nod.

[superguest]

I'd have liked to have seen a field including Rico, Ulamek and Walasek as oppossed to Harris, Tai and Freddie. All up and coming, exciting, fearless young talents with plenty to prove and lots to gain.