Paulco Posted October 27, 2009 Report Share Posted October 27, 2009 What a load of rubbish! Andersen is a proven GP and World Cup winner and is young enough to make a serious fight for the World Title in the next few years. He's a top rider in all three leagues, exciting, at times controversial and widely recognised as one of the top 10, maybe even top 5 riders in the world. Kennett has done bugger all. He's never been an Elite League number 1 and is rubbish outside of Britain. He's been pathetic in the World Cup, mediocre to useless in his wild card showings and hasn't even won the British Championship. The issue here isn't giving young riders a shot, it's the rumour that they have given a full time slot to a rider who should never have been considered, simply because he's British and has a big sponsor. Does anyone outside of Britain recognise Kennett as a world class rider? JT. Spot on . While it's true Andersen has underperformed , on his day he has the ability to put in a challenge to Crump , Pedersen etc . There are probably at least a dozen riders more worthy of a place before Kennett , and though i find his inclusion very strange , i still wish him the very best of luck . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted October 27, 2009 Report Share Posted October 27, 2009 No place for wildcards ...you should have earn the right not weather you can sell tickets for someone to make money ....the same as the World cup final ...Poland Then Denmark then Poland all the time what is that all about ? Don't get me wrong ive been a massive fan of the Gp's and The world cup but they are gone way to to far to the commercial side of things rather than running a fair and equal event what you have to do if you want class it as World championship . I can only imagine there are no promoters in Sweden or GB willing to chance it with two meetings in a couple of days.maybe if they only had to host the final.But it looks like only Poland and Denmark are willing to host the meetings at the mo.Let's face it with the GB team they are hardly assured of making the final and then the promoter is left with a half empty stadium........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sprog1 Posted October 27, 2009 Report Share Posted October 27, 2009 No I am not really missing the point to be honest. The real reason Zager missed out is because he didn't qualify and crappy old Zorro did, so if he cant qualify before some one like that , why should he be in it ?. Zorros qualification would also show the reason behind having qualifiers do you think Zetterstorm is the kind of " face that fits " in the Grand Prix ?. Would Ulamek , Walasek , Lindback or even Zager ? Win it ? No they wouldn't. So why not pick riders with the potential to improve and learn the series and in time make it a more open competition , because at this moment it is between 3 or 4 riders. Not one rider can put forward a logical argument and say Woffy and Kennet have there GP place, because they don't, they all had there chance to qualify and like I said they couldn't even beat Mango to do it. That is exactly the point. Who is to decide which rider has the potential to improve an which one doesn't? The whole thing is done behind closed doors and no reasons are given. It is not even as if they thought Kennett and Woofinden were necessarily the best candidates, it is purely because they are British. If Woofinden had elected to ride on an Australian licence the chances are that he wouldn't have the nomination and it would probably go to someone like Ben Barker. It is all about politics not ability and that is the problem. The people that nominated Kennett and Woofinden for wildcards are the same ones that nominated Nichols Harris and Richardson so their abilty to spot potential world champions is doubtful to say the least. As for saying that at the moment it is between 3 or 4 riders there never was a time in speedway history that there were more than 3 or 4 riders in with a serious chance and you won't change that. There is not a single area of sport or life in general where you improve the standard by levelling down. You always have to level up. In other words you can't turn failures into a success by giving them an easy ride. Let them do it the hard way and it will benefit them in the long run. If Kennett and Woofinden are made to work for i.e through the qualification rounds it will make them more determined (hungry) when they get there. The career of Ivan Mauger is a classic example. He was a dreadful failure at Woofindens age, but he had to go away and learn how to deal with it. It was only by learning to deal with failure that he honed his skills, developed his legendary professionalism and eventually achieived 6 world titles. Raw talent is not enough in speedway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superguest Posted October 27, 2009 Report Share Posted October 27, 2009 (edited) Until they have qualifying for riders 9-15th then you will get this arguement of who is more deserving of a place ... Zagar, Lindback etc are great riders but in the GP series will always come 10-15th. Kennett can do no worse I guess. As for Tai, well he will gain experience and maybe add a bit of drama. It would be interesting to see who are on averages in the leagues the worlds top 15 riders. Edited October 27, 2009 by superguest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wjm Posted October 27, 2009 Report Share Posted October 27, 2009 That is exactly the point. Who is to decide which rider has the potential to improve an which one doesn't? The whole thing is done behind closed doors and no reasons are given. It is not even as if they thought Kennett and Woofinden were necessarily the best candidates, it is purely because they are British. If Woofinden had elected to ride on an Australian licence the chances are that he wouldn't have the nomination and it would probably go to someone like Ben Barker. It is all about politics not ability and that is the problem. The people that nominated Kennett and Woofinden for wildcards are the same ones that nominated Nichols Harris and Richardson so their abilty to spot potential world champions is doubtful to say the least. As for saying that at the moment it is between 3 or 4 riders there never was a time in speedway history that there were more than 3 or 4 riders in with a serious chance and you won't change that. There is not a single area of sport or life in general where you improve the standard by levelling down. You always have to level up. In other words you can't turn failures into a success by giving them an easy ride. Let them do it the hard way and it will benefit them in the long run. If Kennett and Woofinden are made to work for i.e through the qualification rounds it will make them more determined (hungry) when they get there. The career of Ivan Mauger is a classic example. He was a dreadful failure at Woofindens age, but he had to go away and learn how to deal with it. It was only by learning to deal with failure that he honed his skills, developed his legendary professionalism and eventually achieived 6 world titles. Raw talent is not enough in speedway. But they also picked people like Emil , Nicki and AJ as wild cards and it didn't do them any harm did it. Never know unless you try with some riders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted October 27, 2009 Report Share Posted October 27, 2009 But they also picked people like Emil , Nicki and AJ as wild cards and it didn't do them any harm did it. Never know unless you try with some riders. Do you think they would never had got into the gp's otherwise ? of course they would of ..if your good enough you make it ,with no need for a handout . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wjm Posted October 27, 2009 Report Share Posted October 27, 2009 Do you think they would never had got into the gp's otherwise ? of course they would of ..if your good enough you make it ,with no need for a handout . Either way they got there because of a Wild Card. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted October 27, 2009 Report Share Posted October 27, 2009 Either way they got there because of a Wild Card. And thats the point they never needed one . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wjm Posted October 27, 2009 Report Share Posted October 27, 2009 And thats the point they never needed one . But they got one...... Plenty of riders have had them and either made the best of there chance or haven't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seb the Snail Posted October 27, 2009 Report Share Posted October 27, 2009 (edited) If Kennett and Woffinden are selected for next year's series then the last shred of credibility for the GP will be gone. Absolutely shameful picks; they have no pedigree across Europe and aren't even at No 1 in our watered down Elite League yet. I might just drag myself to Cardiff for the social aspect, but apart from that would rather watch tiddliwinks on my Saturday nights than a contrived mockery of a sham of a circus like this. Truly pathetic. Edited October 27, 2009 by Seb the Snail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenn Posted October 27, 2009 Report Share Posted October 27, 2009 Hmmmmm - I just put this on the 09 thread that has jumped up somehow..... Apparently Ed has pretty much confirmed at the NSSC tonight that he's been invited to take a place and that he will be taking it up.....!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salty Posted October 27, 2009 Report Share Posted October 27, 2009 Hmmmmm - I just put this on the 09 thread that has jumped up somehow..... Apparently Ed has pretty much confirmed at the NSSC tonight that he's been invited to take a place and that he will be taking it up.....!!! Was hoping it might be a mistake via the other source, but thanks for confirming the news. Regardless of what people believe Ed will achieve in 2010, never has a rider been so undeserving of a nomination. Utter joke. Another thought - if Holta decides not to ride in the 2010 series then I believe Harris will be next in line? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sprog1 Posted October 27, 2009 Report Share Posted October 27, 2009 But they also picked people like Emil , Nicki and AJ as wild cards and it didn't do them any harm did it. Never know unless you try with some riders. But they are not British. The point which you are trying hard not to face up to is that Kennett and Woffinden are being picked purely and simply because they are British, not necessarily because of acheivment. Of the three you mentioned Emil justified his selection because he was twice world u/21 Champion. AJ was world u/21 Champion and had scored 7 points in the Swedish GP before being given a permanent Wildcard. Nicki had beaten some of the worlds best to finish 4th in the Danish GP so there was good reason to put him in the GP's on a permanent basis. With all due respect to Ed Kennett he has not proved himself up to the job in the British GP when he had a wildcard and Tai has not even managed to get wildcard in the British GP. The other question that you keep avoiding is what is the point of qualifying rounds if people who don't come anywhere near qualifying suddenly get leapfrogged into the GP's ahead of those that did much better on the track ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted October 27, 2009 Report Share Posted October 27, 2009 (edited) Silver Bee asked me if I was going to Torun with him next year I said no. Now it's more or less confirmed we're having comedy night as well as a Speedway GP I might attend Ed Kennett sruggles badly in Poland at league level, we now have 3 GPs there and Ed is in the GPs, he's going to be made to look crap. Another thought - if Holta decides not to ride in the 2010 series then I believe Harris will be next in line?Correct. We could have 3 GP riders next season When was the last time a Brit actually qualified for the GP series? Edited October 27, 2009 by SCB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hatcham Posted October 27, 2009 Report Share Posted October 27, 2009 When was the last time a Brit actually qualified for the GP series? Two years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salty Posted October 27, 2009 Report Share Posted October 27, 2009 (edited) When was the last time a Brit actually qualified for the GP series? Nicholls qualified by a run-off against Harris at Gelsenkirchen in 2007. Can't remember the time before that. If you are asking about a Brit qualifying via the Challenge, again I'm not too sure. Screeny got through one year, but that was when there were 6 qualifiers to the series. Edited October 27, 2009 by salty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wjm Posted October 27, 2009 Report Share Posted October 27, 2009 But they are not British. The point which you are trying hard not to face up to is that Kennett and Woffinden are being picked purely and simply because they are British, not necessarily because of acheivment. Of the three you mentioned Emil justified his selection because he was twice world u/21 Champion. AJ was world u/21 Champion and had scored 7 points in the Swedish GP before being given a permanent Wildcard. Nicki had beaten some of the worlds best to finish 4th in the Danish GP so there was good reason to put him in the GP's on a permanent basis. With all due respect to Ed Kennett he has not proved himself up to the job in the British GP when he had a wildcard and Tai has not even managed to get wildcard in the British GP. The other question that you keep avoiding is what is the point of qualifying rounds if people who don't come anywhere near qualifying suddenly get leapfrogged into the GP's ahead of those that did much better on the track ? In the same way Lindgren and Andersen are picked because of there nationality and other riders before , you could make a logical argument for or against any rider getting or not getting a Wild Card. I have not missed points if you would read what I am posting I have already spoken of the " closed shop " and " faces that fit " and the " why bother with qualifiers " posts you have made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WembleyLion Posted October 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 27, 2009 (edited) When was the last time a Brit actually qualified for the GP series? Ah that would have been Nicholls following the 'coming together' with Bomber in Gelenskirchen in 2007. Edited as I was beaten to it - must be quicker to hit the reply button in future. Edited October 27, 2009 by WembleyLion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted October 27, 2009 Report Share Posted October 27, 2009 In the same way Lindgren and Andersen are picked because of there nationality and other riders before , you could make a logical argument for or against any rider getting or not getting a Wild Card. I have not missed points if you would read what I am posting I have already spoken of the " closed shop " and " faces that fit " and the " why bother with qualifiers " posts you have made. You can't make any logical argument for Kennett. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wjm Posted October 27, 2009 Report Share Posted October 27, 2009 You can't make any logical argument for Kennett. Maybe you cant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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