Best Ever Rider.

[sandman]

Yeah but with a bit of seasoning, and bar the tragedy, a bit of luck, and not being disrepectful to PC, who by the way really got good when the tracks were heavy and rough, I just feel that Tommy was just a bit better in most ways. Where as PC was something special in his time, he still didnt have the raw talent and disipline that Jansson had. Very few did. One reasons the Swedes are so good I believe is because they are a bit calculating, pressure doesnt exist with them. Every other countries has the emotion, flamboyance, and live life to the fullest attitude, which is good sometimes and is fun to watch, but talent all being equal, the Swedes win hands down because they tend to parse pressure. I am probably waffling, and not making sense. PC should have won 2 or 3 Finals. Had Tommy lived he would have done it. Sandman .

[greyhoundp]

The best was Electric Eric Gunderson the black country Dane,who may i take this oportunity of wishing him all the best with his health,and new career. ;-) ;-)

[KevH]

The best was Electric Eric Gunderson the black country Dane,who may i take this oportunity of wishing him all the best with his health,and new career. ;-)  ;-)

 

I should think everyone on the forum will echo your future wishes for Erik.

[Ian H]

Ove Fundin - simply the best

[norbold]

I'm with you Ian H...

[Custom House Kid]

To be fair I only saw Ove Fundin a couple of times at the back end of his career so did not see him at his best !

 

Barry Briggs impressed me but never inspired me!

 

I saw Ivan Mauger early in his career and he was always solid! and if leading, normally never beaten!

 

Ronnie Moore was my favorite of the above just for his style, however IMO Sverre Harrfeldt was the most exciting rider of his day and if he had not had that crash in Poland, could have been one of the great's!

[Custom House Kid]

jblanch69 wrote:-

 

With respect the thread is who was the best rider ever, yes?

 

Could have been, would have been, should have been, might have been..

I could have been the King of England.

 

Ye'r fair comment your Majesty :!:

 

Topic however,very subjective, who rode in what era, how many titles won, World Champs, Gran Prixs Etc.

 

So Must be Tony Rickardsson! Best at present, still riding, most titles

and will probably still win more!

 

Sverre Harrfeldt would have given him a run for his money though!

[stevehone]

So Must be Tony Rickardsson most titles

 

Oops... think I'd better give Ivan a call and let him know

[sandman]

everyone knows Tony still has a few Titles yet to come? :!:

[Shoddy]

I never saw him but I always think Ove Fundin appeared to do it in a time when there were other riders around who won multiple titles. I just think his 5 seems more impressive than his rivals. In amongst his 5 other winners were Barry Briggs, Ronnie Moore and Peter Craven who all won more than one title.

 

Ivan did have Ole Olsen around and has won 6 titles so it is hard to argue if people call him the greatest.

 

Rickardsson is absolute quality and I have a feeling he will end up winning more than anybody. But I have said it before and I'll say it again now - I don't believe he has had any genuine and consistent 100% world class opposition. Also it is easier for him to win, as the top rider of his day, because of the GP series. All that said he can only win what is put in front of him and he's done it 5 times already so he has to be considered as an all time great.

 

I think Hans Nielsen is the other name I would really put up there as I think he missed a few titles because his time crossed with Erik Gundersen. Also he seemed to go off the boil for a few years after Erik's crash which may have just affected the mental strength which you needed for a one off title. He would surely have done better with a GP series and he was also the best rider in 1983 when a German rider won in Germany before doing nothing else in speedway - draw your own conclusions???

 

Barry Briggs won 4 and surely Erik Gundersen, who was perhaps the best one-off meeting rider I ever saw, would have won more if not for his injury. I think Hans was the master professional but Erik always appeared to have more natural talent to me.

 

Throw in Michael Lee as possibly the best natural talent ever and Bruce Penhall - what would have happened if his time had crossed with Gundersen and Nielsen???

 

Basically I have completely avoided the question I think so I will do a 1 to 5, in the order I would place them - which I appreciate you might not agree with of course!!!

 

Ove Fundin

Hans Nielsen

Ivan Mauger

Tony Rickardsson

Erik Gundersen

 

PS: just popping my Dukes tinted glasses on - can I change my vote to Kenny Carter as the best rider never to win a world title?!?!?

[Custom House Kid]

Quote:

So Must be Tony Rickardsson most titles

 

 

Oops... think I'd better give Ivan a call and let him know

 

Sorry Steve a little premature as always (ask the missis)

 

Will keep you imformed wont be long :!:

[Custom House Kid]

Hey jblanch69

 

Quote:

Sverre Harrfeldt would have given him a run for his money though!

 

 

In your dreams sunshine, in your dreams.

 

Sverre on Tony's second bike tonight and Tony on his first!

 

Sverre would have have murderd him (eat dust) 8)

[fatface]

Yeah but with a bit of seasoning, and bar the tragedy, a bit of luck, and not being disrepectful to PC, who by the way really got good when the tracks were heavy and rough, I just feel that Tommy was just a bit better in most ways. Where as PC was something special in his time, he still didnt have the raw talent and disipline that Jansson had. Very few did. One reasons the Swedes are so good I believe is because they are a bit calculating, pressure doesnt exist with them. Every other countries has the emotion, flamboyance, and live life to the fullest attitude, which is good sometimes and is fun to watch, but talent all being equal, the Swedes win hands down because they tend to parse pressure. I am probably waffling, and not making sense. PC should have won 2 or 3 Finals. Had Tommy lived he would have done it. Sandman .

 

I think we are all a little guilty of getting drunk on nostalgia sometimes. And, even more so about riders who are sadly no longer with us.

 

But if you're suggesting Tommy Jansson could have been better than Peter Collins, well I think that's a big, big call you're making there. And I'm not sure i can buy that.

 

Quick run down of PC:

 

* Won one World Title, but could have won more if not for injury - 77 and sabotage - 78

 

* Only rider to score three consecutive maximums in World Team Cup Finals (73-75)

 

* England's most capped rider ever

 

* Won 4 World Pairs Titles - all with different partners

 

* Twice on rostrum at World Long Track

 

* 10 point plus average for 9 seasons in British League

 

Even then I think these achievements don't truly reflect his ability. Think hard, would Tommy Jansson honestly have surpassed all this?

[Grachan]

My top 10 of all time for today is as follows:

 

1. Ivan Mauger – Certainly the greatest rider I ever saw in terms of both stature and ability. When I began going to speedway it was generally accepted that he was the best in the world, in much the same way as Rickardsson is today. His World Final record shows just how dedicated and professional he was.

 

2. Ove Fundin – Many people say he was the best ever, and it’s possible he was. I never saw him ride during his career, so on that basis I have to put him below Ivan.

 

3. Tony Rickardsson – It’s hard to judge Rickardsson’s World Championship record against Ivan and Ove because of the Grand Prix system making it more likely that the best rider in the World will win. It’s possible it would have made no difference anyway, but either way a record number of wins looks to be his for the taking.

 

4. Hans Neilsen/Erik Gundersen – A major case of fence sitting but impossible for me to split them. Hans was by far the better rider, but Erik always seemed to find the edge on the night.

 

6. Barry Briggs – Would have to be the most famous rider ever, one of the few riders that people with no knowledge of speedway had still heard about. Four World titles and a phenomenal record in the BLRC put him among the greats, though again he was past his best by the time I started going so loses out to Hans & Erik on that basis.

 

7. Bruce Penhall – who knows what he would have achieved (or Hans & Erik) if he hadn’t retired. He may well have gone on to be the best of all, but we’ll never know. To win the World Title knowing that you have to do it for a TV show takes some doing though, whatever the arguments for and against the referee’s decision, and his 1981 win was just sheer brilliance.

 

8. Peter Collins – Falcace’s posting says it all really. The best one time winner and could have won many more with more luck.

 

9. Ole Olsen – winner of the first World Final I went to, and did the same at Wembley again 3 years later. Seeing him charging about in the GPs and making the referee’s decisions for him makes it easy to forget just how good a rider he actually was.

 

10. Michael Lee – I once saw Michael Lee take on Phil Crump in the Golden Helmet at Swindon. In both races he was just larking about and pulling wheelies down the straights, yet he still won them both easily. You just couldn’t do that to Crumpie at Swindon! I still reckon this was the most amazing single display of riding I have ever seen. Such a shame he threw it away

[fatface]

10. Michael Lee – I once saw Michael Lee take on Phil Crump in the Golden Helmet at Swindon. In both races he was just larking about and pulling wheelies down the straights, yet he still won them both easily. You just couldn’t do that to Crumpie at Swindon! I still reckon this was the most amazing single display of riding I have ever seen. Such a shame he threw it away

 

I saw Mike Lee doing something similar to Chris Morton at Belle Vue. Lee had it all didn't he? He could gate, overtake inside or out, ride big, small, grippy or slick tracks.

 

When you think that he won everything (World Title, World Long Track, World Pairs, World Team Cup) and people still say he was a wasted talent - that just shows how good he really was.

[norbold]

It's always a problem compiling a list of top 1, top 5, top 10 or whatever, riders because of the comparison between different eras, differnt styles, different bikes, different tracks, different rules, different class of opposition etc. The other question to consider is do we mean the best rider on his day or the best rider over a long period? Just to give an example of that of two riders from the same era, I would say that, on his day, Ole Olsen was better than Ivan Mauger, but certainly not as consistent over as long a period of time. Also, is success in the World Championship the sole criterion or do we look at team men like Ronnie Moore, Ken McKinlay, Olle Nygren and Nigel Boocock who were perhaps not so successful at an individual level as they might have been (yes, even Ronnie Moore!)

Most of the suggestions for best rider ever on this thread only go as far back as Ove Fundin. From my own observation of riders I have actually seen I would certainly go along with the suggestion that Ove was the greatest ever. Though I have to say Tony Rickardsson is, to my mind, fast catching him up.

But what about riders we've only read about? Vic Huxley, Jack Parker, Tom Farndon, Vic Duggan? A look at their records would suggest they must be worthy of consideration, but any question like this is bound to be skewed to the present or very recent past. It's an impossible question to answer.

Having said all that, my top 10, going on observation and records would be:

1. Ove Fundin

2. Ivan Mauger

3. Vic Duggan

4. Tony Rickardsson

5. Barry Briggs

6. Tom Farndon

7. Vic Huxley

8. Jack Young

9. Hans Nielsen

10. Ronnie Moore

 

And I agree with Custom House Kid that Sverre Harrfeldt would have given Rickardsson a run for his money, certainly around Custom House.

 

Think I'll go and have a lie down now....

[sandman]

In reply to Falcase, I am trying to be objective from my own humble opinion. There isn't anything that anyone could take away from PC. However, really not everything comes down to numbers. Tommy didn't have the chance to fulfill his potential, PC did. Admittedly, it is a bit of comparing apples to oranges, there is such an unknown here, so really it is all speculation on my part. My point is I have seen a few special ones come along, and he was even a bit above that. As I said, just my humble opinion.Tommy had the natural talent of Kelly Moran, but an incredible work ethic. At the time of his death, he was up to par with PC.None of my comments are meant to make light of PC's record, just to illuminate what might have been.

[shazzybird]

To be fair I only saw Ove Fundin a couple of times at the back end of his career so did not see him at his best !

 

I saw Ove Fundin for the first time @ Rye House this year! Probably the first and last time too lol

[Custom House Kid]

shazzybird wrote:

 

I saw Ove Fundin for the first time @ Rye House this year! Probably the first and last time too lol

 

I did see Fundin, Briggo,Moore & Mauger in the 60s but missed out a lot from 1971 to 2000 (did'nt go) :!:

 

Except for one meeting 1981 Wembley, Bruce Penhall

[Custom House Kid]

Trying not to labour the point I am Biased!

 

I never saw him but I always think Ove Fundin appeared to do it in a time when there were other riders around who won multiple titles. I just think his 5 seems more impressive than his rivals. In amongst his 5 other winners were Barry Briggs, Ronnie Moore and Peter Craven who all won more than one title.

 

BANG ON SHODDY! I could not have said it better myself. 100% correct.

 

One of those other winners Barry Briggs who, just beat Sverre Harrfeldt in 1966.

3rd Antoni Woryna

4th Ivan Mauger

"In Sweden"

 

Just to point out Sverre could ride a bit in his time and not only at Custom House! 8)