Roll On Sgp 2010 - Best Series Ever

[salty]

Superguest where is Freddie Lindgren in your list? The only guy in the top 10 who is possibly not safe is Rune Holta because the last time he was left out they could have easily included him and chose not to.... he is one of those riders that over time BSI/IMG have seen as expendable........personally I think the closeness between 6th and 10th and the 20 point gap between 10th and 11th should make the top 10 safe .................... if Rune does end up safe it leaves one question for IMG after they have given a WC to a Brit ....... who gets the last WC? another Brit? Zagar? Lindback?................... personally I think Zorro has messed up Lindback's chances (there are already 3 Swedes) and it is a straight decision between Zagar or a Brit............... we know it should be Zagar but imo it will end up being a Brit so as to protect the Cardiff attendance

Have to say I share your doubts about Rune Holta being safe for 2010. Two years ago when he qualified by winning the run-off in Germany against Harris and Nicholls it was reported in the Speedway Star that he wouldn't have been offered a nomination, which would have been totally unfair.

He just doesn't seem to enjoy the same level of support from the GP organisers as other riders, possibly because of his dual nationality?

I fear the only way he will get in for next year is if he gets in the top 8 and even a near miss might not be enough. Whilst I think that would scandalous (every other rider who has finished so high has got a nomination for the following year) I wouldn't put it past them to blank him.

 

Given Philip Rising's inside info in the top echelons of the sport it will be interesting to read the Star this week as they are usually pretty clued up as to where the nominations will go. In the past there has been a supposed "need" for 2 Brits, but surely that can't be maintained given the dearth of Brits able to mix it at the top level.

 

[[chris1875]]

Have to say I share your doubts about Rune Holta being safe for 2010. Two years ago when he qualified by winning the run-off in Germany against Harris and Nicholls it was reported in the Speedway Star that he wouldn't have been offered a nomination, which would have been totally unfair.

He just doesn't seem to enjoy the same level of support from the GP organisers as other riders, possibly because of his dual nationality?

I fear the only way he will get in for next year is if he gets in the top 8 and even a near miss might not be enough. Whilst I think that would scandalous (every other rider who has finished so high has got a nomination for the following year) I wouldn't put it past them to blank him.

 

Given Philip Rising's inside info in the top echelons of the sport it will be interesting to read the Star this week as they are usually pretty clued up as to where the nominations will go. In the past there has been a supposed "need" for 2 Brits, but surely that can't be maintained given the dearth of Brits able to mix it at the top level.

 

 

i beleive he doesnt enjoy the support of the organisers as he seems to be a quiet bloke who just wants to go out and race his bike then retreat to his pit.It would be a shame if he was not to get a nomination for this reason as on his day he is more than capable to mix it with the best and his day seems to be more often than certain other British riders (Chris Harris).If Harris or Tai get a nomination it is for one reason and one reason only.Attendances at Cardiff!!!

[spook]

the issue IMG have ... as every year ....is that it is far better for their decisions to not be controversial and for there to be some kind of 'flow' to it all.......... ie unlike last year where for the first time we had a rider being given a WC who scored lower than a guy who was not being given a WC........... we know the reaction that it received on here and I should imagine it is the kind of thing that IMG like to avoid

 

Bomber has made it easy for them to include him as he already has the 17 race jacket secured (supposing Lindgren as expected qualifies or is given a WC) .... and this allows them to ignore that he may be behind Adams, Walasek and Ulamek at the end................ however can they really do that with Holta considering that he is so much further ahead than Bomber and a part of the group running from 6-10 who are within 7 points of each other?

 

I think the thing in Rune's favour this year is that if he was left out then he would need to be replaced by another Pole to suit this IMG quota system............in former years there have always been Poles queueing up to take their turn ....but with Jagus being another that IMG showed was not favoured... Kasprzak being a disaster last time..... Hampel getting back in... who does it leave? Ulamek and Walasek have not disgraced themselves but they dont perform as well as Rune (or at least as well as his bikes ) .............. IMO the only guy who could be considered is Miedzinski

 

 

 

 

[salty]

Agree with that. In the past there have been more Poles already in, but as you say, with only Hampel and Gollob confirmed for next year I reckon IMG/BSI would prefer 3 Poles to 2 Brits. Would be difficult to see anyone brought in before Holta, who has proved again that he is well worthy of inclusion in the top 15 in the world.

[Phil Silvers]

I can see this being 2010 line-up.

 

15. Lee Richardsson GREAT BRITAIN (WC)

[/b]

 

 

Really???

 

He was getting beaten with ease last night by some ordinary riders.

[manchesterpaul]

I think with the hovering danger of injury the organizers can't risk the major speedway nations only having one representative in the series. I'm presuming that the british duo are likely to be Tai Woffinden and Chris Harris - there are arguments for and against his inclusion compared to other possible british nominees. Imagine if the only british rider got injured before Cardiff!. Surely that's too high a risk too take.

 

Not sure how British Tai Woffinden is?. I'm sincerely hoping he doesn't qualify for that unsavoury blend of sportsman that deserts his country of birth in the arena of sport for purely mercenary means.

 

I hope somebody will inform me that Tai grew up here in his childhood etc. I know he was born in Scunthorpe, but for example, are his parents of english birth?. If so fair enough and it's just a case of his family emigrating to Australia whilst he was a child? Thing that led me to thinking he was in reality Australian are his accent and the fact he was in the Australian pits (and wearing their colours) during the World Team Cup final. I notice the following on his website profile....Home: Perth, Australia....Favorourite Place: Mullalo Point Beach, Australia (geez! has this man never been to Skegness lol)....Favourite Music: Aussie Hip Hop....Favourite Sport: Australian Rules Football.

 

Speedway's most current shocking example of disloyalty being the farcical example of Rune Holta. Holta's case being on the lines of so many US tennis stars who were born and spent their formative years in eastern europe only to bedeck themselves in the flag of convinience that is USA.

 

It's too be hoped for Rune's sake Norway don't overnight become a good speedway nation and he misses out on representing them. Look at the recent historical examples in football where scores of footballers over the years negated their african heritage and played low grade national matches for France etc only to see their birth nations then qualify for the word cup as african football improved beyond recognition.

 

Didn't initially notice that Poland only have Tomasz Gollob and Jarek Hampel, however, that does fulfill the commercial safety net for the nation.

[manchesterpaul]

Not sure how British Tai Woffinden is?. I'm sincerely hoping he doesn't qualify for that unsavoury blend of sportsman that deserts his country of birth in the arena of sport for purely mercenary means.

 

Sorry that was badly worded. I hope he does participate in the series. I meant i hope he isn't one of those sportsmen/women who desert their country of birth in the arena of sport for purely mercenary means.

 

 

 

[squall]

Sorry that was badly worded. I hope he does participate in the series. I meant i hope he isn't one of those sportsmen/women who desert their country of birth in the arena of sport for purely mercenary means.

 

Personally, I hope Tai does what's best for Tai

[hyderd]

Not sure how British Tai Woffinden is?. I'm sincerely hoping he doesn't qualify for that unsavoury blend of sportsman that deserts his country of birth in the arena of sport for purely mercenary means.

 

I hope somebody will inform me that Tai grew up here in his childhood etc. I know he was born in Scunthorpe, but for example, are his parents of english birth?. If so fair enough and it's just a case of his family emigrating to Australia whilst he was a child? Thing that led me to thinking he was in reality Australian are his accent and the fact he was in the Australian pits (and wearing their colours) during the World Team Cup final. I notice the following on his website profile....Home: Perth, Australia....Favorourite Place: Mullalo Point Beach, Australia (geez! has this man never been to Skegness lol)....Favourite Music: Aussie Hip Hop....Favourite Sport: Australian Rules Football.

 

Tai's Parents are both British by birth who choose to emigrate to Aus when Tai (who was born in Scunthorpe) was a tender 5 years of age, as Tai grew up in Aus then surely it is expected that his fave stuff is Australian based,(and why not i'm sure it is a lovely country and possibly the reason so many Brits emigrate there each year). As regards the pit episode in the WTC, Team GB were out, his mates from the country he grew up in were still in the competition and it was also a FIA ruling that all people in the pit area wore the colours of that nation.

One more little point, I have seen plenty of people wear replica football shirts from other nations, Brazil springs to mind.

So IMHO, I would guess that Tai feels Aussie, one of his passports states that he is British and jeez we do need him right now

 

[Humphrey Appleby]

(and why not i'm sure it is a lovely country and possibly the reason so many Brits emigrate there each year).

 

I'd wager there are more Aussies coming in the other direction, but does it really matter? Riders in the SGP ride for themselves, not for any nation, so why people get hung up on this is beyond me.

 

I just wish the best 16 riders were allowed to qualify for the SGP without all this nonsensical consideration as to whether a particular rider's nationality is right, or merely whether their face fits.

 

[spook]

Agree with that. In the past there have been more Poles already in, but as you say, with only Hampel and Gollob confirmed for next year I reckon IMG/BSI would prefer 3 Poles to 2 Brits. Would be difficult to see anyone brought in before Holta, who has proved again that he is well worthy of inclusion in the top 15 in the world.

 

I guess it will be interesting to see what they do in the end......... there are a few question marks that when answered will be quite telling about the IMG agenda now and into the future

 

 

[manchesterpaul]

I just wish the best 16 riders were allowed to qualify for the SGP without all this nonsensical consideration as to whether a particular rider's nationality is right, or merely whether their face fits.

 

I guess the way to let lie easy what would seem to be a commercially necessary evil is to view the series as including the best 8 riders in the world at a minimum. All other entrants being potential challengers who get there by various means including the aforementioned commercial necessity.

 

[BUDGIE]

I just wish the best 16 riders were allowed to qualify for the SGP

 

...but in someones reckoning they are the best 15 (16) in the world because of the fact that they are in the SGP.

 

It opens up all sorts of questions about who are the best 15 riders in the world, who decides the basis for that?, is it at the Old Hyde Road on a Saturday, Finn Jensen might have a chance, or is it at Wolves on a Monday, where for example, Finn Jensen

may not have much of a chance, or is it the people who finished high in the SGP last year or is it nominations, or is it a combination of finishing high in the previous years SGP, qualifying and a few nominations.

By the way no offence to Finn Jensen is intended, because he was better at Hyde Road that Monmore Green!

 

 

In the end does anyone really beleive that a rider who is not in the SGP this year could have been on the rostrum, because I dont, and I'd go further and say that that will also be true next year, so we can hardly say that the SGP produces a false result.

 

The people being argued over are peripheral to the result next year.

 

[Humphrey Appleby]

It opens up all sorts of questions about who are the best 15 riders in the world, who decides the basis for that?

 

Through open qualification. I can live with a certain percentage of the SGP requalifying on the basis of their performances, but this nominated nonsense whereby riders are picked because they're needed for a particular market rather because of their ability, somewhat makes a mockery of the system.

 

Yes, a one-off qualification system doesn't necessarily guarantee the best riders will qualify, but it does (theoretically) give every rider outside the SGP a chance, and certainly makes the whole thing more credible. To be honest though, I could even live with a system whereby British, Polish and Swedish league averages were used instead, provided qualification is decided on-track rather than in some back room (or in a pub somewhere).

 

In the end does anyone really beleive that a rider who is not in the SGP this year could have been on the rostrum

 

And Scott Nicholls is likely to be on the rostrum instead? I don't see that as a criteria for choosing riders, as in any given competition, most riders have no chance of being on the rostrum, but you still need some also-rans to make the field. It would be better though, if those also rans were there by right rather than patronage.

 

[BUDGIE]

Through open qualification. I can live with a certain percentage of the SGP requalifying on the basis of their performances, but this nominated nonsense whereby riders are picked because they're needed for a particular market rather because of their ability, somewhat makes a mockery of the system.

 

Yes, a one-off qualification system doesn't necessarily guarantee the best riders will qualify, but it does (theoretically) give every rider outside the SGP a chance, and certainly makes the whole thing more credible. To be honest though, I could even live with a system whereby British, Polish and Swedish league averages were used instead, provided qualification is decided on-track rather than in some back room (or in a pub somewhere).

 

 

 

And Scott Nicholls is likely to be on the rostrum instead? I don't see that as a criteria for choosing riders, as in any given competition, most riders have no chance of being on the rostrum, but you still need some also-rans to make the field. It would be better though, if those also rans were there by right rather than patronage.

 

As has been proved of late the also rans dont matter, in the great scheme of things the Top 3 in anyone year will be all that anyone looks at in the future, as indeed we do now.

 

 

Dont understand your point about Scott Nicholls because it is obvious that he wouldnt be on the rostrum, more so because he has said he doesnt want to be involved.

 

The point is the bottom 6 dont matter a flyin' fig, might as well put me in there, and all the debate about who should be in and who shouldnt, is irrelevant.

 

From a personal point of view I would like to see 13 Englishmsn, JC, NP and Emil. Wouldnt be very good to watch though would it!

 

[spook]

tbh I think a bit of a dead horse is being flogged here................ believe me I would love to have a full blown qualification system like we used to have but it isnt going to happen.............. I would also like IMG/BSI to take a less visible role..... ie trust that the British fans (the same ones who are happy to see journeymen foreigners at their club week in week out) will turn up to see 15 foreigners and 1 'plucky brit'... but it isnt going to happen

 

maybe the problem is that we should never have stopped being vocal about it and you have the right idea Humphrey?

 

When all is said and done though ultimately it is IMG who hold the rights.... IMG who have the power... and IMG who will decide what blocks go into what holes... even if they are the wrong shape.................... it is sad when money is prioritised above the integrity of a competition steeped in history but such is modern life, TV and the such like....

 

I still think that there is still a whole deal right with the GP series ...... but the priority for me is the removal of our Danish friend......... the day they get rid of Ole is the day that mediocrity is replaced by the triumphant and the disastrous....... when that day arrives it will signal the start of a bumpy ride while people learn but at least we will get what some of us call speedway back

[iris123]

tbh I think a bit of a dead horse is being flogged here................ believe me I would love to have a full blown qualification system like we used to have but it isnt going to happen.............. I would also like IMG/BSI to take a less visible role..... ie trust that the British fans (the same ones who are happy to see journeymen foreigners at their club week in week out) will turn up to see 15 foreigners and 1 'plucky brit'... but it isnt going to happen

 

maybe the problem is that we should never have stopped being vocal about it and you have the right idea Humphrey?

 

When all is said and done though ultimately it is IMG who hold the rights.... IMG who have the power... and IMG who will decide what blocks go into what holes... even if they are the wrong shape.................... it is sad when money is prioritised above the integrity of a competition steeped in history but such is modern life, TV and the such like....

 

I still think that there is still a whole deal right with the GP series ...... but the priority for me is the removal of our Danish friend......... the day they get rid of Ole is the day that mediocrity is replaced by the triumphant and the disastrous....... when that day arrives it will signal the start of a bumpy ride while people learn but at least we will get what some of us call speedway back

You do talk some sense,which isn't the norm on here most times.But hasn't it already been established that IMG don't have as much power as you believe.The FIM still have a good bit to say about things.And whoever it is that makes the decisions about track prep(either Ole makes the decision and IMG/FIM are happy with it or Ole gets told how to do it because of sponsors board)Olsson will be in the same position won't he?I doubt we will see an overnight change in the way tracks(at least the temp tracks for certain)are prepared........

And yes it might not be everyones cup of tea to have riders picked,but that is the way things are.Look at the junior finals etc,the home country has a rider seeded or even a team seeded through to the final.A lot of the time we are lucky and the rider/team is worthy of a place,but some times they take the place of a better rider.It isn't good in one sense,but i guess there just aren't the Promoters out there willing to take a chance without "home" interest

 

[Humphrey Appleby]

But hasn't it already been established that IMG don't have as much power as you believe.

 

Well so they say, but again I'm not sure I'd fork out around a million quid a year to have a committee tell me to how to prepare the tracks or which riders I should pick. In addition, I'd have thought given the composition of the CCP, they'd be more in favour of direct qualifying rather than nominations as it gives the smaller nations a better chance of representation.

 

It isn't good in one sense,but i guess there just aren't the Promoters out there willing to take a chance without "home" interest

 

I think few would disagree that a staging nation should have a local rider in the field, but there's already provision for a wildcard in each GP. It's the season long 'wildcards' that make a mockery of the competition.

 

[iris123]

Well so they say, but again I'm not sure I'd fork out around a million quid a year to have a committee tell me to how to prepare the tracks or which riders I should pick. In addition, I'd have thought given the composition of the CCP, they'd be more in favour of direct qualifying rather than nominations as it gives the smaller nations a better chance of representation.

So the suggestion is that they are happy with the way Ole is preparing the tracks.Maybe even telling him how to do them?So getting rid of Ole and replacing him with Tony O will not have much affect on track prep

 

 

I think few would disagree that a staging nation should have a local rider in the field, but there's already provision for a wildcard in each GP. It's the season long 'wildcards' that make a mockery of the competition.

Yes.I was talking not specifically about the GPs there,but generally about how international speedway comps work in the modern world.Fritz Wallner can get knocked out of the World U21 Championship,but still be in the final because Wiener Neustedt are hosting it.If it happens on the lesser stages it will happen even more when there is more at risk financially.It is significant that Sky are voicing criticism though,as tv companies more than fans will make the men in charge sit up and take notice

 

[Humphrey Appleby]

So the suggestion is that they are happy with the way Ole is preparing the tracks.

 

It's all very difficult to fathom, but one might conclude that how the tracks were prepared simply wasn't at the top of their priorities whilst the television and sponsorship money continued to come in.

 

If it happens on the lesser stages it will happen even more when there is more at risk financially.

 

I'd imagine that a significant proportion of the SGP television audience is in Britain, so a SGP without a British rider would not be a easy sell. Don't know what the viewing figures are like in other countries, but again that probably influences the nominations.

Edited October 2, 2009 by Humphrey Appleby