SCOTLAND1314 Posted September 19, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 19, 2009 I would not say it would be a bad idea , but knowing speedway promoters they would not GO and promote to get the money ,they would say to their regulars "well its going to cost you £25 to get in so we can compete" Yup never really thought of that. Although I think it (no averages) may actually attract more promoters into the sport. The ex Coventry promoter (apologies can't remember his name) was effectively chased away from speedway and perhaps a little bit more money. IMO the fact that he'd to break up a winning team, plus he couldn't easily improve a losing team helped in his decision to walk away. I think the big fear that one or two teams will suddenly track 7 Nicki Pedersen's or 7 Tomek Gollob's I just don't think is a realistic fear. Most promotions aren't making a fortune just now so I fail to see where all this money would appear from to dominate the sport. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deano Posted September 19, 2009 Report Share Posted September 19, 2009 What happens when the engine goes for its first maintenance? Ideally like normal box standard engines, they are 20x more reliable so apart from changing external components internals remain OEM untouched. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCOTLAND1314 Posted September 19, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 19, 2009 Ideally like normal box standard engines, they are 20x more reliable so apart from changing external components internals remain OEM untouched. Ahh I didn't know that... what does OEM mean? Could be a good experiment for the National League (initially). Like you say it wouldn't make joining the sport as financially prohibitive. Would the league own the engines? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deano Posted September 19, 2009 Report Share Posted September 19, 2009 (edited) Ahh I didn't know that... what does OEM mean? Could be a good experiment for the National League (initially). Like you say it wouldn't make joining the sport as financially prohibitive. Would the league own the engines? OEM = Original Equipment Manufacture or Manufacturer. No the riders own as many as they want... hopefully they would only ever need one and maybe one as a back up per season. Edited September 19, 2009 by Deano Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
czechhero Posted September 19, 2009 Report Share Posted September 19, 2009 Scotland, do you ever stop asking bloody questions???? Next season in MotoGP, the 250cc class is being replaced by the Moto2 class, which will be identical 600cc engines, all supplied by Honda and all sealed so the teams cannot touch then internally, in whatever frames teams choose to use. There is a rule that anyone who is winning all the races must sell that engine to anyone who stumps up (I think) $20000. This rule is designed to prevent teams buggering about with their allocated engine. Don't know how this rule could be applied to speedway, so don't ask me, ok? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCOTLAND1314 Posted September 19, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 19, 2009 Scotland, do you ever stop asking bloody questions???? Next season in MotoGP, the 250cc class is being replaced by the Moto2 class, which will be identical 600cc engines, all supplied by Honda and all sealed so the teams cannot touch then internally, in whatever frames teams choose to use. There is a rule that anyone who is winning all the races must sell that engine to anyone who stumps up (I think) $20000. This rule is designed to prevent teams buggering about with their allocated engine. Don't know how this rule could be applied to speedway, so don't ask me, ok? Scotland, do you ever stop asking bloody questions???? Apologies - I blame my job. Interesting re MotoGP, I wonder if it could be applied to SpeedwayGP rhetorical question... That's another thing (that nearly happened with Team Exide Hancock and Hamill) I can see SGP going down a mini team route E.g. Team Rickardsson with Emil and Linback etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCOTLAND1314 Posted September 19, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 19, 2009 OEM = Original Equipment Manufacture or Manufacturer. No the riders own as many as they want... hopefully they would only ever need one and maybe one as a back up per season. Sounds like it could work. Although unless the engine manufacturers could sell as many engines, they'd be against it. As would tuners I guess. Could be an option to say to a new/old manufacturer Godden, Weslake you can have exclusive rights to building engines for the NL. Could prove a double benefit for the sport another manufacturer and cheaper equipment costs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snapper-racing.co.uk Posted September 20, 2009 Report Share Posted September 20, 2009 its been said before Tracks should have a number of engines - riders turn up with their chassis and pick a number that engine is then theirs for the match and give back at the end. simple Engines are then serviced as standard all the same. Once they have become tired or need replacing they can then be sold to the NL clubs, Training tracks or Junior Riders The only things that can be altered would be Carb jetting, gearing and tyre pressures to suit the track. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icicle Posted September 20, 2009 Report Share Posted September 20, 2009 Scrap the new silencers before they kill this sport Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brummie Kev Posted September 20, 2009 Report Share Posted September 20, 2009 Scrap the new silencers before they kill this sport To be honest if we dont have these silencers then clubs will close, (not just mine) the future of the sport is at stake if they arnt implented. In a perfect world I love not to have them but as we know this world aint perfect especially with the PC brigade about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T.N.T. Posted September 20, 2009 Report Share Posted September 20, 2009 Iwould also not allow team to be built arond averages , but by grades (no not the complicated one used before) just 3 grades Heat leader, Second String and reserve Each team could biuld to a Maximum of 3 heat leaders ,2 Second strings and 2 reserves a starter over 7.00 heatleader btween 4.5 and 7.00 second string , below 4.5 reserve So Wolves could track Nicki Pedersen, Fredrik Lindgren and Peter Karlsson while Poole could track Hans Andersen, Kryzstof Kasprzak and Chris Holder ...... However teams like Ipswich would have a top 3 of Miskowiak, Nicholls and King !! If there was to be a grading, it would have to be more balanced out. GRADE 7 = 9.00+ GRADE 6 = 8.00 - 8.99 GRADE 5 = 7.00 - 7.99 GRADE 4 = 6.00 - 6.99 GRADE 3 = 5.00 - 5.99 GRADE 2 = 4.00 - 4.99 GRADE 1 = 3.00 - 3.99 Each team would then be allowed to have seven riders with a combined grade of say 25 so for Example, Wolves could track Lindgren, Karlsson, Woffinden, Klindt, Proctor, Lawson, Stichauer .... Coventry ~ Harris, Nicholls, Kennett, Barker, Allen and Auty Sounds good, but would there be the riders to go around ? CHEQUE BOOK SPEEDWAY ~ And I guess you think this would be bad. Why? Why would a track like Belle Vue, Ipswich or Eastbourne want to join the Elite League if there are three teams that have all the top riders in there. Could you imagine a Wolves v Belle Vue match Pedersen, Lindgren, Karlsson, Woffinden, Max, Skornicki and Klindt v Hougaard, Gjedde, Wright, Ostergaard, Forsberg etc etc ..... Bet that would really get the fans queing at the gates. Grading can work, but the smart promoters will then know that a rider is best to finish on a 6.99 average rather than 7.01 and will make sure this happens each year. That way their team could be 6.93 stronger than most other teams Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCOTLAND1314 Posted September 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 20, 2009 Why would a track like Belle Vue, Ipswich or Eastbourne want to join the Elite League if there are three teams that have all the top riders in there. Could you imagine a Wolves v Belle Vue match Pedersen, Lindgren, Karlsson, Woffinden, Max, Skornicki and Klindt v Hougaard, Gjedde, Wright, Ostergaard, Forsberg etc etc ..... Bet that would really get the fans queing at the gates. I guess there are lots of points to be made re the above. Firstly, you make the assumption that all the good riders would be with 3 teams, there is nothiing to suggest that that would necessaily be the case. Secondly, at the minute the sport punishes successful teams i.e. if you win the league you more often than not have to break up your team. Which IMO is just plain silly. The emphasis should be on those weaker promotions having to improve their team or face relegation. And it should be one straight down and one play off position. Thirdly, it would help ambitious promotions (perhaps in the PL) to attract the occasional world class rider so as to allow them to attain an EL place. e.g. KL could go and sign Tomek Gollob for example to boost their promotion bid. Now that would put bums on seats. Fourthly, why do those teams that you mention have a given right to appear in the EL. If they don't bring their teams up to scratch and finish bottom, they should be relegated. Simple. I'm sure if that were the case they'd be bursting a gut to improve their team. i.e. the emphasis should be on improving and unfortunately the averages system doesn't allow it. Fifthly, some people will state that the current set up allows all promotions to have an even chance the next season. Does it? IMO I don't think so. When did Ipswich, Eastbourne and Bv last win the EL? approx 10 seasons ago. So the current set up can't be working that well. Sixthly, if cheque book speedway brought about a stronger team or two entering the EL then perhaps the SKY matches would be more competitve. And that SKY cash would be spread about the country a bit more thereby rewarding success and not keeping it amongst the EL closed shop i.e. rewarding failure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted September 20, 2009 Report Share Posted September 20, 2009 The sealed bit is tough, but other sports use some kind of item that would break when the engine is broken apart (like a unique coloured wax seal). The most popular karting class uses a sealed engine, which is done with some sort of plastic tag that breaks if the engine is dismantled. Engines can only be serviced by approved agent, who are supposed to use stock parts with no modifications. However, there are a number of problems with this approach. Firstly, with the best will in the world, all engines have small differences and you find the top drivers go around buying up several engines to source the best 'standard' components to put together in a higher performing engine. This is perfectly legitimate, but somewhat defeats the purposes of having standardised engines. Secondly, some sealed engines have been found to have tampered with, obviously by some agent who's prepared to bend the rules for a favoured client. The chances of being caught were (at least in the early days) slim because it was assumed sealed engines wouldn't need checking on a regular basis. I personally don't like the sealed approach because it not only precludes you from doing your own servicing/tuning, but it puts the agents in a powerful position to charge daft money for doing even the most basic things. This is in a sport with almost no prize money, so goodness knows what it would be like in a professional sport. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deano Posted September 20, 2009 Report Share Posted September 20, 2009 However, there are a number of problems with this approach. Firstly, with the best will in the world, all engines have small differences and you find the top drivers go around buying up several engines to source the best 'standard' components to put together in a higher performing engine. This is perfectly legitimate, but somewhat defeats the purposes of having standardised engines. Quite right Humph. You could bet your granny's bottom that a standard works Jawa rider would be quicker than young Brendan Bottomly's standard Jawa at Scunthorpe. The reason is before every engine leaves the factory it will get tested under controlled conditions and the better ones will be filtered out. You could even engineer a slightly quicker engine and seal it and still keep within the rules. Purely by choosing and matching parts within a closer tolerance band. This though only applies to very few engines, in general though most will be quite similar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trees Posted September 20, 2009 Report Share Posted September 20, 2009 Monday Night SKY league which includes GP riders who want to race over here on a set night, SKY deal covers all costs ........... Proper club race nights for a new British League ............ well who knows but hopefully would include EL and a number of PL clubs including KL and not including the GP riders/riders who don't want a full british league campaign. Sounds good but who knows what the BSPA have in mind? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barrow boy Posted August 6, 2010 Report Share Posted August 6, 2010 Teams should only have one reserve at 7 who must be the current lowest averaged rider over say the previous 10 matches. This rider should be the only one that can be used to replace off form, injured or sick riders and may have up to an additional 3 rides. The next lowest average must ride at 6 and the rest, 1 to 5 may be positioned in any order of the TM's choosing. Each team's riders current averages to be calculated on a rolling basis of the previous 10 meetings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trees Posted August 6, 2010 Report Share Posted August 6, 2010 If there was to be a grading, it would have to be more balanced out. GRADE 7 = 9.00+ GRADE 6 = 8.00 - 8.99 GRADE 5 = 7.00 - 7.99 GRADE 4 = 6.00 - 6.99 GRADE 3 = 5.00 - 5.99 GRADE 2 = 4.00 - 4.99 GRADE 1 = 3.00 - 3.99 Each team would then be allowed to have seven riders with a combined grade of say 25 so for Example, Wolves could track Lindgren, Karlsson, Woffinden, Klindt, Proctor, Lawson, Stichauer .... Coventry ~ Harris, Nicholls, Kennett, Barker, Allen and Auty Sounds good, but would there be the riders to go around ? Agreed that promoters would work the averages as always but those who go out to win the league probably wouldn't get the chance and that in turn would share the winners around? I would go for less gradings: Grade 5 8.5+ Grade 4 7.5 - 8.49 Grade 3 6.5 - 7.49 Grade 2 5.5 - 6.49 Grade 1 4.49 and less Then teams built to 20 points perhaps. I'd had thought that the promoters would have to work out to see if the riders that are on the books at present would all get a job with these gradings, it's pretty important for british speedway to keep the riders that do want to race here! Another way of changing speedway/possibly making the racing better imo would be to change the meeting format so that there are more races with riders of similar calibre. If that happened the riders averages would change completely of course, more thought has to go into this idea than I have given it haha, sounds good though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barrow boy Posted August 11, 2010 Report Share Posted August 11, 2010 I would like to see the lineup's of heats 12, 13 & 14 changed as follows:- 12-1&7 v 3&6 13-3&6 v 1&7 14-5&4 v 5&4 This would prevent riders 1&5 being asked to race against each other 3 times causing them to achieve lower averages than their ability. It would also reduce the averages of lesser riders who currently have easier races to a more realistic level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted October 2, 2011 Report Share Posted October 2, 2011 <!--quoteo(post=1597400:date=Sep 19 2009, 09:04 PM:name=billybikespeedway)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (billybikespeedway @ Sep 19 2009, 09:04 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1597400"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I would not say it would be a bad idea , but knowing speedway promoters they would not GO and promote to get the money ,they would say to their regulars "well its going to cost you £25 to get in so we can compete"<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yup never really thought of that. Although I think it (no averages) may actually attract more promoters into the sport. The ex Coventry promoter (apologies can't remember his name) was effectively chased away from speedway and perhaps a little bit more money. IMO the fact that he'd to break up a winning team, plus he couldn't easily improve a losing team helped in his decision to walk away. I think the big fear that one or two teams will suddenly track 7 Nicki Pedersen's or 7 Tomek Gollob's I just don't think is a realistic fear. Most promotions aren't making a fortune just now so I fail to see where all this money would appear from to dominate the sport. Some really great points made on here my feeling always has been forget about stupid averages .If you are a promoter you could not field seven Jason Crumps even if you wanted to because of the exspense.When i first started going i see loads of good meetings that were 50-28 or 53-25.We have been obsessed with trying to keep teams close, bring back building a team keeping it defending cups.Thats what i want more teams fans can identify with not musical chairs riders moving every year.Get speedway back on track i dont care who wins just improve the product. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolypolygoly Posted October 3, 2013 Report Share Posted October 3, 2013 I would bring into speedway the system for starting that is in use in BMX racing, get rid of tapes, all riders have to touch the bar, then go when it drops. starting gate problems solved Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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