MARK246 Posted October 4, 2009 Report Share Posted October 4, 2009 The reserve berths are not taken by the lowest averages riders like in the UK but by under 21's. He has done so well for both Vargarna and Czestochowa(SP) that they almost always use him for the maxmium number of rides as he beats the worlds top riders each week. You obviously never watch the live feeds. In Sweden it is the lowest averaged rider, the same as the UK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bdjfan Posted October 4, 2009 Report Share Posted October 4, 2009 Its alright people coming up with all these names, but at the end of the day rider's who take part in the GP's have to have the behind the scenes set up to take part bikes engines kevlars mechanics. Not to mention of course the financial backing of large sponsor's etc. A lot of the names that are be mentioned don't have the back up and in this day and age do not want to get in serious debt to do it. The GP series doesn't pay a great deal when you think of all the time travelling etc that has to be done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srbramble Posted October 4, 2009 Report Share Posted October 4, 2009 Its alright people coming up with all these names, but at the end of the day rider's who take part in the GP's have to have the behind the scenes set up to take part bikes engines kevlars mechanics. Not to mention of course the financial backing of large sponsor's etc. A lot of the names that are be mentioned don't have the back up and in this day and age do not want to get in serious debt to do it. The GP series doesn't pay a great deal when you think of all the time travelling etc that has to be done. Ward and Woffinden don't come into that category. They are what sponsors dream of, which only strengthens their case to be included for 2010. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulco Posted October 4, 2009 Report Share Posted October 4, 2009 Anyone out there know when the wildcards are chosen? I imagine it's after the final GP, but how soon after? I'm sure it's just a week or two after the final GP . Riders need the whole winter to prepare their machinary and get sponsors in place , so they have to give the lucky three as much time as possible . After his performance in yesterday's under 21 final , maybe Tai is worthy of a nomination . Nicki Pedersen finishing in the top 8 would help his chances i think . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsloes 1928 nearly Posted October 4, 2009 Report Share Posted October 4, 2009 Ward and Woffinden don't come into that category. They are what sponsors dream of, which only strengthens their case to be included for 2010. Absolutely.. The organisers would be crazy not to include these two in the 2010 GP... IF we have to be stuck with this pale substitute of a proper world championship, we may as well move it on by bringing in top YOUNG talent...; otherwise a start-line of four late thirty-somethings (as we've seen a number of times this year..) will soon before one of several 40-somethings and that would make the sport look a laughing stock.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARK246 Posted October 4, 2009 Report Share Posted October 4, 2009 Absolutely.. The organisers would be crazy not to include these two in the 2010 GP... IF we have to be stuck with this pale substitute of a proper world championship, we may as well move it on by bringing in top YOUNG talent...; otherwise a start-line of four late thirty-somethings (as we've seen a number of times this year..) will soon before one of several 40-somethings and that would make the sport look a laughing stock.. Using this criteria the 4 nominations would be Ward, Pavlic, Hougaard then Woffinden. How can you bypass riders who performed better just to get a Brit in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidba Posted October 4, 2009 Report Share Posted October 4, 2009 In Sweden it is the lowest averaged rider, the same as the UK Yes your right i should know that having been to Vargarna twice already this year, but it doesn't change the point that Tai was amongst the top scorers everytime i went and saw them on tv, and certainly when it mattered in the play off final and will be first on their team sheet for 2010. Certainly all the Vargarna fans i spoke to felt he was the best thing since sliced(rye) bread! Personally i think Tai does act rather foolish at times but.... if these super talented young riders didn't do so then what would us old has beens have to feel superior about!! The point is he's improving each week he rides these tracks often for the first time and has beaten every top rider in the world along the way. A series with Adams under performing, Harris, Nicholls, Ullamek, walasek versus a series with Holder, Hampel, Zorro(?), Ward and Woffinden, i know which would have me giving up a Saturday night out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsloes 1928 nearly Posted October 4, 2009 Report Share Posted October 4, 2009 Using this criteria the 4 nominations would be Ward, Pavlic, Hougaard then Woffinden. How can you bypass riders who performed better just to get a Brit in. That's utter nonsense!!! This thread is about which BRIT is going to be "nominated".. we all know that at least one has to be... And Tai is clearly the rider who most deserves this... You can't honestly believe that Pavlic and/or Hougaard would bring more or perform better at GP level than Tai.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandorum Posted October 4, 2009 Report Share Posted October 4, 2009 (edited) The level of naiviety in this thread is truly amusing to witness. The world speedway championships are a business and as such need to be attractive especially to TV and sponsors. The countries that provide the most income need to be represented so the series needs at least a Pole a Brit a Swede and a Dane to be viable with a yank and an Aussie for worldwide appeal. The fact that the Brits are poor is totally irrelevant as having one is essential and the silly idea that having one in the Cardiff GP and not in the overall series is sensible shows just how naive speedway fans are in the UK. The other factor in choosing a Brit is appeal to the TV audience and sponsors. Lee Richardson appeals to no one whilst young Woffinden has bags of appeal all across the board and tics all the boxes required for attracting an audience. Nicholls and Harris trailing in last every time has become stale and boring and regardless that the two finally show some effort at the end of the series neither is worth a light when it comes to overall GP audience appeal. Young Darcy and Pavlic have it as well as Zagar and Lindback whilst Leigh Adams (regardless of how good he is domestically and what he has brought to the sport)and most all of the bottom eight in the series bring nothing to the series anymore so will fall by the wayside. If Nicki fails to get into the top 8 the organisers would be insane not to give him a pick as his appeal is worldwide but the rest are nothing special anymore. The three who qualified are regardless of how good they are there on merit (as they went thru the qualifying system) but the four picks will reflect their attractiveness to the series overall not their UK averages or what they do in Poland. Wuffy does well in that anyways but will be picked for his level of 'cool' not his ability on a bike. My bet is Zagar and Linback will get a pick as well for the same reasons. The bizarre idea that the top 16 riders in the world have ever competed in a world final is laughable as it was always designed to give poor East Europeans and Germans who could not compete at PL level a third of the line up and on many occasions poor standard Brit Swede Danes got in by virtue of home track knowledge in a qualifier. Of course there were exceptions as there always are but essentially the world final was designed to appeal to a wider audience not pit the worlds top 16 against each other. So having a poor Brit in the series is no different. The Brit audience expects a Brit in each round regardless how crap he is but at least with someone like Woffinden we will have a rider who aspires to do better each round and who will learn from each experience. Plenty other young Brits are coming through the ranks and with a bit of encouragement maybe will make a name as well. Seeing Wuffy in a GP series will give Brit speedway a shot in the arm. Seeing Chris and Scotty crawl in around 14th 15th or 16th just bores people. Of course Wuffy will have bad days but the lad will learn from them and my bet is he will do enough even if he fails to get a top 8 place to deserve a pick for 2011 unlike Scott and Chris who expect a pick because they are all there is. Two Brits in the 2010 series would be unlikely as there are more 'deserving' (ie attractive to the series) riders in the mix but Wuffy would for me be a perfect pick to revitalise a stale product. Edited October 4, 2009 by pandorum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidba Posted October 4, 2009 Report Share Posted October 4, 2009 The level of naiviety in this thread is truly amusing to witness. The world speedway championships are a business and as such need to be attractive especially to TV and sponsors. The countries that provide the most income need to be represented so the series needs at least a Pole a Brit a Swede and a Dane to be viable with a yank and an Aussie for worldwide appeal. The fact that the Brits are poor is totally irrelevant as having one is essential and the silly idea that having one in the Cardiff GP and not in the overall series is sensible shows just how naive speedway fans are in the UK. The other factor in choosing a Brit is appeal to the TV audience and sponsors. Lee Richardson appeals to no one whilst young Woffinden has bags of appeal all across the board and tics all the boxes required for attracting an audience. Nicholls and Harris trailing in last every time has become stale and boring and regardless that the two finally show some effort at the end of the series neither is worth a light when it comes to overall GP audience appeal. Young Darcy and Pavlic have it as well as Zagar and Lindback whilst Leigh Adams (regardless of how good he is domestically and what he has brought to the sport)and most all of the bottom eight in the series bring nothing to the series anymore so will fall by the wayside. If Nicki fails to get into the top 8 the organisers would be insane not to give him a pick as his appeal is worldwide but the rest are nothing special anymore. The three who qualified are regardless of how good they are there on merit (as they went thru the qualifying system) but the four picks will reflect their attractiveness to the series overall not their UK averages or what they do in Poland. Wuffy does well in that anyways but will be picked for his level of 'cool' not his ability on a bike. My bet is Zagar and Linback will get a pick as well for the same reasons. The bizarre idea that the top 16 riders in the world have ever competed in a world final is laughable as it was always designed to give poor East Europeans and Germans who could not compete at PL level a third of the line up and on many occasions poor standard Brit Swede Danes got in by virtue of home track knowledge in a qualifier. Of course there were exceptions as there always are but essentially the world final was designed to appeal to a wider audience not pit the worlds top 16 against each other. So having a poor Brit in the series is no different. The Brit audience expects a Brit in each round regardless how crap he is but at least with someone like Woffinden we will have a rider who aspires to do better each round and who will learn from each experience. Plenty other young Brits are coming through the ranks and with a bit of encouragement maybe will make a name as well. Seeing Wuffy in a GP series will give Brit speedway a shot in the arm. Seeing Chris and Scotty crawl in around 14th 15th or 16th just bores people. Of course Wuffy will have bad days but the lad will learn from them and my bet is he will do enough even if he fails to get a top 8 place to deserve a pick for 2011 unlike Scott and Chris who expect a pick because they are all there is. Two Brits in the 2010 series would be unlikely as there are more 'deserving' (ie attractive to the series) riders in the mix but Wuffy would for me be a perfect pick to revitalise a stale product. Congrats on a very well argued first post Pandorum, makes a lot of sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostwalker Posted October 4, 2009 Report Share Posted October 4, 2009 Well Tai has done a good first season in Sweden but to say that he beats top stars every time and that he have been among the topscorers in every meeting is a bit of an exaggeration. Tai have also benefited from riding as a reserve where he can take two rides from Vargarnas other reserve. He has done both very good meetings but also less good meetings. He has done very good in the playoffs though. I also would like to see him in the GPs but i would like to see him do a full season as heatleader or atleast second string before he steps into the GP. Points wise Rico, Harris and Nicholls all have scored more points then Tai Obviously Emil has performed exceptionally well, but he have experience from riding from a 1-5 position in both Sweden and Poland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidba Posted October 4, 2009 Report Share Posted October 4, 2009 Well Tai has done a good first season in Sweden but to say that he beats top stars every time and that he have been among the topscorers in every meeting is a bit of an exaggeration. Tai have also benefited from riding as a reserve where he can take two rides from Vargarnas other reserve. He has done both very good meetings but also less good meetings. He has done very good in the playoffs though. I also would like to see him in the GPs but i would like to see him do a full season as heatleader or atleast second string before he steps into the GP. Points wise Rico, Harris and Nicholls all have scored more points then Tai Obviously Emil has performed exceptionally well, but he have experience from riding from a 1-5 position in both Sweden and Poland. I didnt say he beats them every time but that he has claimed most big scalps along the way, his performance in the biggets meetings, the play off final, showed he has improved already as a rider , while far from the finnished article, he is a better choice than the other Brits who have all had plenty of chances and failed. Harris may yet deserve another chance up to him if he shines next year as a reserve when he gets his chance. Lots of folk this time last year argued against Emil's inclusion, not saying Tai will be as good as that but with him you get the feeling he will mix it up with the big boys and not be another filler. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARK246 Posted October 4, 2009 Report Share Posted October 4, 2009 That's utter nonsense!!! This thread is about which BRIT is going to be "nominated".. we all know that at least one has to be... And Tai is clearly the rider who most deserves this... You can't honestly believe that Pavlic and/or Hougaard would bring more or perform better at GP level than Tai.. Woffinden is not the most deserving, Harris is, as he was the only Brit to reach the GP Challenge Final. To answer the question about Hougaard and Pavlic being better in the GP's, that is unknown at this time, but they performed better in the U21. So form would suggest that woffinden will bring less to the series. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsloes 1928 nearly Posted October 4, 2009 Report Share Posted October 4, 2009 Woffinden is not the most deserving, Harris is, as he was the only Brit to reach the GP Challenge Final. To answer the question about Hougaard and Pavlic being better in the GP's, that is unknown at this time, but they performed better in the U21. So form would suggest that woffinden will bring less to the series. What utter nonsense!! Harris has had his chance - for a number of years. Sure, he's 100% more deserving than Nicholls but if we have just one place (though I'd guess we will have two...) it HAS to be Woffinden. And I'm sorry, but look at the facts of yesterday's meeting and you CANNOT simply glibly state that Hougaard and Pavlic "performed better in the U21"..!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colincooke Posted October 4, 2009 Report Share Posted October 4, 2009 What utter nonsense!! Harris has had his chance - for a number of years. Sure, he's 100% more deserving than Nicholls but if we have just one place (though I'd guess we will have two...) it HAS to be Woffinden. And I'm sorry, but look at the facts of yesterday's meeting and you CANNOT simply glibly state that Hougaard and Pavlic "performed better in the U21"..!! No it doesn't.Where was he in the GP Challenge Final. Did he qualify, no. Tai will get his chance but 2010 is 1 year to soon. Think about it, he's dealing with a hell of a lot privately isn't he & there is far more to come. I take my hat off to the lad & his Mother how they're dealing with that. The lad will need to deal with & get over that won't he, going into the GP this year will be a mistake, if he fails we may just see his head drop & yet another British superstar is lost to us, do we want to see that? NO. Give the lad another season, that's all i'm saying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARK246 Posted October 4, 2009 Report Share Posted October 4, 2009 What utter nonsense!! Harris has had his chance - for a number of years. Sure, he's 100% more deserving than Nicholls but if we have just one place (though I'd guess we will have two...) it HAS to be Woffinden. And I'm sorry, but look at the facts of yesterday's meeting and you CANNOT simply glibly state that Hougaard and Pavlic "performed better in the U21"..!! I've done what you sugested and checked with http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Individual_Sp...ld_Championship and it states 2009 1st Ward 2nd Pavlic 3rd Hougaard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsloes 1928 nearly Posted October 4, 2009 Report Share Posted October 4, 2009 No it doesn't.Where was he in the GP Challenge Final. Did he qualify, no. Tai will get his chance but 2010 is 1 year to soon. Think about it, he's dealing with a hell of a lot privately isn't he & there is far more to come. I take my hat off to the lad & his Mother how they're dealing with that. The lad will need to deal with & get over that won't he, going into the GP this year will be a mistake, if he fails we may just see his head drop & yet another British superstar is lost to us, do we want to see that? NO. Give the lad another season, that's all i'm saying. Right, well of course I accept that there is an argument there... Might be best perhaps for the authorities to ask the family what they think's best but on any other criteria he really SHOULD be in there in 2010. On the subject of the GP Challenge. great store is being made by posters about those who did or didn't qualify to or from this meeting. I tend to agree, in truth; so why not make all EIGHT places up for grabs the top eight from that meeting!! This is the logical progression of what people are saying and it WOULD make for one hell of a lot more competitive edge to both the qualifiers and the GPs. No safety blanket for those finishing 9th. and 10th. in the GPs; and restoring to us a proper competitive and meritocratic route to contest for the world title... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsloes 1928 nearly Posted October 4, 2009 Report Share Posted October 4, 2009 I've done what you sugested and checked with http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Individual_Sp...ld_Championship and it states 2009 1st Ward 2nd Pavlic 3rd Hougaard Hmm, so you also think that Joe Haines who won five out of five rides in the GB Under 18s last week was "out performed" by the three riders who finished on the rostrum ahead of him and who the record books will show as the first three..?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ladyluck Posted October 4, 2009 Report Share Posted October 4, 2009 I'm all for giving Woffinden another season, but not Harris. He's never qualified for the GPs and I doubt he ever will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Silvers Posted October 4, 2009 Report Share Posted October 4, 2009 (edited) Woffinden had a tapes exclusion but that apart was untroubled all meeting. Fair do's to the other three in the U21's but surely Tai should be given a chance? Purely on his ability shown in the EL and Poland this year? If, by not finishing in the top 3 in the U21 jeapordises his chance in the GP's then surely Nicki P by not finishing in the top 8 doesn't warrant a place either?? Edited October 4, 2009 by Phil Silvers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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