barrow boy Posted September 19, 2009 Report Share Posted September 19, 2009 My daughter who is only a casual fan having been brought up in a speedway family wants to know why the GP challenge final is raced before this season's top 8 are known because if either or all of Harris, Lindgren, Bjerre & Walasek had finished in the top 3 as well as in this season's top 8 other riders who did not figure in the GP Challenge final would have had the chance to race off. She appreciates that riders finishing lower than 3rd would qualify but she still thinks it unfair not to wait in case it is possible for other riders to get their chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pollyanna Posted September 23, 2009 Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 I believe the reason that the tracks are so slick for the GPs is Ole Olsen's input. He has stated that "Slick tracks make for better racing". In fact, slick tracks mean that there is NO Speedway racing as we know it - only Speedway riding! As a previous poster stated, Leszno and Bydgoszcz consistently produce fantastic racing surfaces for League meetings - why are they so different for the GPs? The answer has to be, again, Ole Olsen's input into their preparation. Almost every rider says that the track surface on which they practise, is totally different to that on the day of the meeting. Why is this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racers and royals Posted September 23, 2009 Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 I believe the reason that the tracks are so slick for the GPs is Ole Olsen's input. He has stated that "Slick tracks make for better racing". In fact, slick tracks mean that there is NO Speedway racing as we know it - only Speedway riding! As a previous poster stated, Leszno and Bydgoszcz consistently produce fantastic racing surfaces for League meetings - why are they so different for the GPs? The answer has to be, again, Ole Olsen's input into their preparation. Almost every rider says that the track surface on which they practise, is totally different to that on the day of the meeting. Why is this? He also thinks slick tracks make safer racing.I also think that the hammering the track gets during practice has a lot to do with the track on race day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The H Man Posted September 23, 2009 Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 I also think that the hammering the track gets during practice has a lot to do with the track on race day. Great observation Racers and Royals, lets hope Ole reads this forum and takes on board your comments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsloes 1928 nearly Posted September 23, 2009 Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 Wonder when Derek will be back cap in hand to apologise for stating none of this ever happened!!!!!!! Unlike a large number of people on this Forum I always accept when I'm wrong (which is often enuff!! ). I didn't know about the direct seeding of the likes of Craven and Mirac in the '60s for example - before my time!!! I was thinking of what were to me the glory days of the WF from say, '72 through to the early '80s and there was no 'seeding' or fast-tracking then. To cite the Polish situation is a bit of a red herring. When England was hosting the WF we had five (or was it four..) places and these were decided at the British Final.. The Poles on occasion (and one was '73) choose to select their finalists...: you can call this 'seeding' if you won't but I wouldn't personally... Just a different method of 'selecting' the host county's allocation of riders.. The fact is that if you were World Champ or in the top three or four in the world you still had to qualify in the year concerned to get back to defend your title.. This made for fantastically exciting meetings across the board and was a real proof of a rider's mettle where it REALLY counts, in the white hot atmosphere of individual meetings. Look at that clip of Olsen racing like a man possessed in his first ride in the '72 Final...: tell me you'd ever see an equivalent effort (albeit ending in failure...) in a current GP.... Or qualifying......by managing to get through the qualifying process.Whether that be this year or next,they have qualified by the rules set out in advance.You call it tamata i call it tomata....or something ) This is also an enormous red herring... What you're saying is that Greg Hancock qualified through a qualifying process in 1994/'95 and because he's stayed in the top eight since he is there as a qualifier... But each year to finish in the top eight involves finishing ahead of a maximum effectively of just seven other riders... IF he'd had to qualify every year for a WF with several rounds he'd have had to have taken on, at an estimate, something in the region of 59 riders (say) in five ride, 20 heat meetings to get there. There's no doubt (1) that Greg remains in the top 8 - probably four - in the world and deserves his place; but (2) that it is nevertheless one heck of a lot easier for a rider of his class to stay in the GPs than it is for any younger pretenders to get in.. Look at the average age of those contesting GP Finals this year and even with Emil lowering it, it's still far higher than the average would've been in the old WF system... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wotnoaj Posted September 23, 2009 Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 Tracks should be prepared by the usual curator for that track, it's a bit of an insult to the curator that someone should come in and take over their track anyway. Practice the day before should be scrapped, it serves no purpose as the track is always completely different on race day anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickthemuppet Posted September 23, 2009 Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 Say you are an up and coming Speedway rider and want to get in the GP's is there an openng to qualify or are the riders selected. Say for instance Chris Schramm of King's Lynn. Does he have the option to get in the GP's or is it a closed shop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wotnoaj Posted September 23, 2009 Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 Say you are an up and coming Speedway rider and want to get in the GP's is there an openng to qualify or are the riders selected. Say for instance Chris Schramm of King's Lynn. Does he have the option to get in the GP's or is it a closed shop. To be honest mick, I don't know the answer to your question but I'm sure if Chris Schramm applied to be in the GP's they would not only shut the shop but barracade it aswell!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff... Posted September 23, 2009 Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 Say you are an up and coming Speedway rider and want to get in the GP's is there an openng to qualify or are the riders selected. Say for instance Chris Schramm of King's Lynn. Does he have the option to get in the GP's or is it a closed shop. Next years series will likely contain 20 year old Emil Sayfutinov, 19? year old Tai Woffinden and 22 year old Freddie Lindgren. Hardly indicative of the old boys club that some would have you believe is it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted September 23, 2009 Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 Next years series will likely contain 20 year old Emil Sayfutinov, 19? year old Tai Woffinden and 22 year old Freddie Lindgren. Hardly indicative of the old boys club that some would have you believe is it Yes, but places should all be decided on track, one way or another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff... Posted September 23, 2009 Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 Yes, but places should all be decided on track, one way or another. They are "decided on the track, one way or another" Why do you think Tai Woffinden is going to be in? because he has a nice name!. He will be in because of his performances "on the track". That and the fact all the other Brits are crap Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickthemuppet Posted September 23, 2009 Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 So Darcy Ward should be in then for what he has done on the track this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wotnoaj Posted September 23, 2009 Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 So Darcy Ward should be in then for what he has done on the track this season. Lynn fan by any chance mick? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted September 23, 2009 Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 Why do you think Tai Woffinden is going to be in? because he has a nice name!. He will be in because of his performances "on the track". He didn't qualify for the GP Challenge Final, whereas another Brit whose face apparently no longer fits in the SGP did. He wouldn't qualify on the basis of his league averages as far as I can see either, so in what way do his on-track performances on the track justify selection? I realise the stale SGP desperately needs fresh faces, but perhaps if there was a more competitive qualification system as opposed to your face happening to fit, then more riders might be interested in entering the qualifying rounds, which in turn would improve the chances of different riders getting into the series. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trees Posted September 23, 2009 Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 More qualifiers and less GPs would mean more riders being able to compete in the world championship as they could afford to .................. a more varied world championship trail = more interest! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
refereerick Posted September 23, 2009 Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 Next years series will likely contain 20 year old Emil Sayfutinov, 19? year old Tai Woffinden and 22 year old Freddie Lindgren. Hardly indicative of the old boys club that some would have you believe is it But two, and possibly all three may be given a place having not met the qualification criteria Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickthemuppet Posted September 23, 2009 Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 Lynn fan by any chance mick? You could not be further from the truth. I would just like Speedway to be more successful than it is at the moment. In fact I would not mine seeing a old style world championship and the GP's as well all in one season. In Britain if we had 45 riders enter an old style championship then each rider would have 3 meetings Each Elite League club would host one meeting each Any more than 45 then preliminary rounds could be held on Premier League tracks. Repeat this in Poland and Sweden. Any other nationality could enter in the country they ride league matches in. The top scoring 10 in each country +2 highest runner up then contest 2 semi finals. Then top 8 in each final go through final. One year final in Britain and two semi finals in Poland and Sweden. Next year final in Poland and S/f 's in Britain and Sweden. Year 3 final in Sweden and other two countries have semi finals. All profits stay in Speedway,and all clubs want more meetings in a season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sotonian Posted September 23, 2009 Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 They are "decided on the track, one way or another" Why do you think Tai Woffinden is going to be in? because he has a nice name!. He will be in because of his performances "on the track". That and the fact all the other Brits are crap Which performances would these be? His SGP qualifier (1)? No, he failed to qualify. His SGP qualifier (2)? No, given an undeserved second chance, he again failed to qualify. What has he won of note? He fulfills your last criterion but that's not reason enough to be included. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snapper-racing.co.uk Posted September 23, 2009 Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 Tracks should be prepared by the usual curator for that track, it's a bit of an insult to the curator that someone should come in and take over their track anyway. Practice the day before should be scrapped, it serves no purpose as the track is always completely different on race day anyway. It doesnt matter if the surface is different - there is alot you could get out of a practice.... the main thing being, getting used to the shape (yes believe it or not fans EVERY speedway track is different in shape - even if they all look like an oval) - learning where the apexes are and working out where to throttle, where evident racing lines are... even technical things for the bike - these sessions can be invaluable and are a test run When coming into such a big meeting you would want everything prep'd to the best it can be so everything come racing goes like clockwork. Certain riders who purposely miss practice are obviously too good or just dont care about their performance - says it all really. (I would give a bye for guys who have travel problems or ride that track regularly though) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wotnoaj Posted September 23, 2009 Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 It doesnt matter if the surface is different - there is alot you could get out of a practice.... the main thing being, getting used to the shape (yes believe it or not fans EVERY speedway track is different in shape - even if they all look like an oval) - learning where the apexes are and working out where to throttle, where evident racing lines are... even technical things for the bike - these sessions can be invaluable and are a test run When coming into such a big meeting you would want everything prep'd to the best it can be so everything come racing goes like clockwork. Certain riders who purposely miss practice are obviously too good or just dont care about their performance - says it all really. (I would give a bye for guys who have travel problems or ride that track regularly though) Fair play snapper, I didn't really think about the shape of the track. I know they differ in size, shape in corners and banking. Is there an argument that riders of that quality should be able to have a couple of laps in the morning to get an idea? I'm not trying to be funny with that question, I genuinly wouldn't know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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