Future of the GP's...?

[RobMcCaffery]

Fascinating though the discussion on seeding is it is just one aspect of the current GP system.

 

A couple of things have come to mind after Philip Rising's welcome contributions and the challenges by the likes of 'Humphrey Appleby'.

 

Just how high a priority for BSI is the SGP now that it's under IMG ownership? IMG are primarily involved with 'blue chip' sport, originally sports such as golf and tennis and I wonder how a relatively obscure motorsport fits in their priorities.

 

Another thought was that the SGP series was intended to be a major tool for the FIM to improve speedway's international profile, to broaden interest in new territories and to lift the levels in established speedway countries. It's been quite a few years since that 'mission' started. Just how much has been achieved?

 

I'd welcome some insight from supporters outside the UK to join in here and hopefully let us know how they view the GPs and whether they are doing what they were supposed to do - really take speedway forward?

 

I'd say they've done nothing at all in the UK, Cardiff's a major event for us but only in the way the Wembley world finals were. It still is shunned by the media, apart from Sky, even in Cardiff.

 

It's not so much a question of the bums on seats in the stadia themselves - if you put 16 riders together in a world championship event irt's a fair bet that you'll draw a crowd especially if those riders are rarely seen in one meeting. Does a Latvian GP stimulate speedway there or is it just a one-off party?

 

Have the Grand Pixs taken the sport forward?

 

Rob McCaffery.

Edited September 15, 2009 by rmc

[salty]

Not so sure whether the GP's have taken the sport forward, but I do think that they re-energised it when they were introduced in 1995. Unfortunately the old system was at a very low ebb and I dread to think what state Speedway would be in today if the change hadn't happened.

 

One of the side effects has been the negative impact on the sport in GB, primarily the loss of regular weekend fixtures at the highest level.

 

Personally I think the GP's as a spectacle have suffered since the change to the 16 rider format. Whilst I can understand the difficulties of the old 24 rider knock out system in terms of cost, I felt it did make for a better and more exciting event.

 

With regard to the 4 nominations or seeded riders, in principle I am against the idea, but I can see that from a commercial point of view it does give the organisers some input into which riders take part. Just goes against the grain when you see riders of a lesser worth getting picks just because of their nationality.

[PolskiZuzel]

...Another thing that rankles with me, is this aspect of a rider racing on a national licence

of another country. Ride under your own country's flag or dont bother.

 

You've got it wrong!

Nobody rides in the GP "on a national licence of another country"

There is no such thing.

Rune Holta, I think you refer to him, don't you, has requested and obtained Polish Passport.

As a Polish National he has every right to ride under Polish flag.

 

regards

PolskiZuzel

 

[RobMcCaffery]

You've got it wrong!

Nobody rides in the GP "on a national licence of another country"

There is no such thing.

Rune Holta, I think you refer to him, don't you, has requested and obtained Polish Passport.

As a Polish National he has every right to ride under Polish flag.

 

regards

PolskiZuzel

 

Again the matter of riders representing countries other than their country of birth is a side-issue, although I will say that nationality and holding a passport are two separate things.

 

While we have you here PolskiZuzel how are the GPs seen in Poland and do you think they help Polish speedway?

 

Rob McCaffery.

Edited September 15, 2009 by rmc

[jeff...]

You've got it wrong!

Nobody rides in the GP "on a national licence of another country"

There is no such thing.

Rune Holta, I think you refer to him, don't you, has requested and obtained Polish Passport.

As a Polish National he has every right to ride under Polish flag.

 

regards

PolskiZuzel

 

It is you who has it wrong my friend, in the individual world championship a competitor represents the country that issues his racing license.

 

In the World Cup a rider may only represent the country who issue his passport

[TonyMac]

ROB …

 

I THINK you will find, especially over the next few weeks and months,

that the SGP is an integral part of IMG’s future plans, especially

within their growing motorsport division.

 

IMG have moved from from being a client-based company, which as you

rightly said, represents high profile sports starts like Tiger Woods

and Roger Federer.

 

But the relatively new CEO of IMG, now owned by a giant US investment

company, comes from Nascar racing. They are more and more into owning

the commercial rights of events and the SGP fits neatly into that

category.

 

They have a long-term plan because, as I understand it, their contract

with the FIM runs until 2021 at least.

 

Having that security allows them to look and plan ahead, unlike the

Rugby World Cup for example for which they hold the rights for 2011 in

New Zealand but not necessarily for England in 2015.

 

Rob Armstrong, Vice President Motorsports, is the man who brought BSI

into the IMG fold. During his first spell at IMG he had amongst his

clients Sir Jackie Stewart. He then left IMG to run the Jaguar and

Ford F1 teams for Stewart before returning to IMG where he still has

the Stewart portfolio.

 

Rob has this month switched his base from London to Auckland and

Sydney as IMG’s motor sport interests there and across Asia expands.

How will all this help speedway in Britain? Probably not a lot in the

short term.

 

IMG presumably hope that if the profile of the Speedway Grand Prix is

raised across the world then more and more people will become aware of

it, largely through increased TV audiences, the rewards for riders

will grow significantly and aspiring young motorcyclists will look to

speedway rather than, at present, motocross for a bright and lucrative

future.

 

I was at an early BSI meeting with the Grand Prix riders soon after

John Postlethwaite had taken over at the helm and he said even then

that while prize money was unlikely to raise dramatically, sponsorship

income was where they would get their just desserts.

 

Of course, that was easier said than done and while some, notably Tony

Rickardsson, benefited hugely, others have not.

 

A Grand Prix series, with six, seven, 11 or whatever rounds, is

obviously a much better sponsorship prospect for international or even

national commercial enterprises to become involved with than a one-off

World Final with a fairly narrow audience. That is the theory.

 

British riders have always found it a tough market to crack, those

from Denmark and Sweden less so. And, for a while, there were several

Polish companies eager to join the bandwagon.

 

As IMG look more towards the sub-continent, where the recession has

hit less hard, perhaps income for riders will increase. It is a big if

and unlikely to affect crowds here but, of course, they look at a much

bigger and very different picture.

 

PHILIP RISING

[RobMcCaffery]

ROB …

 

 

 

As IMG look more towards the sub-continent, where the recession has

hit less hard, perhaps income for riders will increase. It is a big if

and unlikely to affect crowds here but, of course, they look at a much

bigger and very different picture.

 

PHILIP RISING

 

That's actually very reassuring and I hope we see the expected results. Of course I am writing purely on the British angle since others can and do stand their countries' corners. I obviously appreciate that IMG's focus is on the wider picture though.

 

My concern is that an already-weakened British Speedway finds some sort of benefit from the sacrifices it has been forced to make. You do wonder if anyone is actually able or willing to stand up for British Speedway on the international stage since the SCB surrendered much of its responsibility to the BSPA who in turn seem incapable of dealing with their own internal problems currently.

 

It would be good to think thart the pain that the sport has suffered in this country might not be in vain in the longer-term. If the sport's profile can be grown internationally and major sponsors attracted then no doubt it could reap part of the harvest.

 

I'm sure we all want the growth that you speak of. Hopefully IMG can take matters further than BSI alone were able to achieve because it's hard to see where the growth has been so far which is why I was keen to hear of the effect in countries outside the UK.

 

Rob McCaffery.

 

[Trees]

IMG presumably hope that if the profile of the Speedway Grand Prix is

raised across the world then more and more people will become aware of

it, largely through increased TV audiences, the rewards for riders

will grow significantly and aspiring young motorcyclists will look to

speedway rather than, at present, motocross for a bright and lucrative

future.

Let's hope they presume right then. If they presume right british speedway will be overun with boys wanting track time, let's hope all the tracks can keep their heads above water til this presumption is realised! What a crazy set up.

If the sport's profile can be grown internationally and major sponsors attracted then no doubt it could reap part of the harvest.

The worry must be that any sponsors gained will want that GP exposure not mere SGB but who knows.

[RobMcCaffery]

Let's hope they presume right then. If they presume right british speedway will be overun with boys wanting track time, let's hope all the tracks can keep their heads above water til this presumption is realised! What a crazy set up.

 

The worry must be that any sponsors gained will want that GP exposure not mere SGB but who knows.

 

IMG deal with the very top level corporate sponsors. IF they send them speedway's way then we will gain enormously. It's a very big IF.

 

Rob McCaffery

 

Another afterthought...

 

Media buyer for a major blue chip sponsor sits down to watch Saturday's GP on Sky.

 

"Jeez does the guy on the inside win every race? Is passing allowed?"

 

"Sky can't think much of the sport to hire a guy like that to commentate"

 

"Hey, it's 7 o'clock, where's the programme gone?"

 

"Where's the golf being shown?"

 

 

Edited September 16, 2009 by rmc

[Humphrey Appleby]

I do think that they re-energised it when they were introduced in 1995. Unfortunately the old system was at a very low ebb and I dread to think what state Speedway would be in today if the change hadn't happened.

 

It could equally be argued the old system had been run into the ground unnecessarily, as even in the latter years, it still drew crowds at the larger venues the SGP would envy. For example, Munich 1989 was something like 40,000, Bradford 1990 probably around 25,000, Gothenburg 1991 around 20-25,000 and Wroclaw 1992 was 25,000 or so. After that it went to Pocking and Vojens which are small venues in the middle of nowhere (albeit perfectly decent by domestic speedway standards), although even then I think they were capacity.

 

The effect of the SGP is of course a matter of opinion, and I'd say in fairness that it perhaps slowed the overall decline in interest in the sport. Perhaps it indeed even attracted a new audience, although I suspect only in 'Eurosport' terms where people watch a minority sport because it happens to be on free-to-air television during a damp Saturday afternoon. I'd never dream of going to watch the likes of a Nordic skiing race live, and I suspect for others it's much the same with speedway as well.

 

If you analyse the attendances at the GPs themselves, with one or two exceptions they're not significantly better than in the pre-BSI era, nor indeed particularly better than the latter World Finals. It's fair to acknowledge that Cardiff has been successful in terms of crowds, but equally what's to say that a World Final wouldn't have been successful there if the venue had been available then and the event properly promoted?

 

With respect to the other venues, well the pre-BSI Polish GPs always drew decent crowds (as did the 1992 World Final), and the pre-BSI Prague GPs actually drew better crowds according to the published figures. Ullevi was brought back (twice), but never really improved on the last World Final there in 1992. Copenhagen was the other prestigious addition to the circuit, and is probably the one other 'success', but again the crowds are not significantly better than the latter World Finals at big venues.

 

This said, whilst I actually had far more interest in the World Championship when there was a one-off World Final, I do think some sort of GP system is probably necessary in the modern era even if I have doubts about current setup. I'd prefer a more open qualification system than what occurs now, but in truth, the format and number of nominated riders would be relatively minor details if the GPs were actually interesting to watch. I finally gave up on them last season, and from what I read, things haven't improved this season either.

 

[RobMcCaffery]

I'd prefer a more open qualification system than what occurs now, but in truth, the format and number of nominated riders would be relatively minor details if the GPs were actually interesting to watch.

 

A very powerful truth lies there. The more interesting speedway is to watch the less its ailments matter.

 

Rob McCaffery.

[Maddas69]

>And let’s not lose sight of the fact that Emil Sayfutdinov had no

>complaints about the track in Krsko. As Barry Briggs – in my humble

>opinion among the greatest motorcycle riders ever – said: “Emil can

>see racing lines others cannot, he used the ruts to get grip, he is a

>fantastic talent and the only one who actually rode properly all night.”

 

Barry is correct, Emil is an exceptional talent, but Mr. Briggo can`t have been watching the same meeting as Rune Holta was leading the final by a mile when Gollob fell and I bet ya if Holta had won the gate in the run-off Emil wouldn`t have had a chance......talking about who was the only one riding properly all night.........

 

On another note, the tracks do not need to be slick to get good racing, but they MUST be even. The problem seems to be that if you make a track with a bit of dirt on it you get holes, if you make it slick you make it a gaters track with no racing lines. BUT, and this is adressed to BSI/IMG/Phillip Rising, they make tracks WITH tracktion and WITHOUT holes EVERY week in Sweden and Poland. EVERY week! I have watched most of the Swedish EL matches on TV this year and there is rarely a hole, but still there are different lines to race and guys like Jonsson, Crump and Pedersen do a lot of passing when behind. WHY ARE YOU NOT LEARNING FROM THE BEST? Why aren`t you touring Sweden during a season, connecting with various track curators, talking to people, and make a professional track team that you can bring to the GP`s?

 

And for crying out load, leave the locals to do the Bydgodszcz track. It`s the best track in the world when prepared correctly.

 

Also; you need to change the format. People are tired of looking at the same 16 riders week in and week out. There should be some kind of qualifiers before each GP to get some new faces in there for every meeting. One wildcard to please the locals is not enough.

Edited September 16, 2009 by Maddas69

[Pollyanna]

>And let’s not lose sight of the fact that Emil Sayfutdinov had no

>complaints about the track in Krsko. As Barry Briggs – in my humble

>opinion among the greatest motorcycle riders ever – said: “Emil can

>see racing lines others cannot, he used the ruts to get grip, he is a

>fantastic talent and the only one who actually rode properly all night.”

 

Barry is correct, Emil is an exceptional talent, but Mr. Briggo can`t have been watching the same meeting as Rune Holta was leading the final by a mile when Gollob fell and I bet ya if Holta had won the gate in the run-off Emil wouldn`t have had a chance......talking about who was the only one riding properly all night.........

 

On another note, the tracks do not need to be slick to get good racing, but they MUST be even. The problem seems to be that if you make a track with a bit of dirt on it you get holes, if you make it slick you make it a gaters track with no racing lines. BUT, and this is adressed to BSI/IMG/Phillip Rising, they make tracks WITH tracktion and WITHOUT holes EVERY week in Sweden and Poland. EVERY week! I have watched most of the Swedish EL matches on TV this year and there is rarely a hole, but still there are different lines to race and guys like Jonsson, Crump and Pedersen do a lot of passing when behind. WHY ARE YOU NOT LEARNING FROM THE BEST? Why aren`t you touring Sweden during a season, connecting with various track curators, talking to people, and make a professional track team that you can bring to the GP`s?

 

And for crying out load, leave the locals to do the Bydgodszcz track. It`s the best track in the world when prepared correctly.

 

Also; you need to change the format. People are tired of looking at the same 16 riders week in and week out. There should be some kind of qualifiers before each GP to get some new faces in there for every meeting. One wildcard to please the locals is not enough.

 

 

Well said!

[tomcat]

You need to check your history before making silly statements, plenty of riders were seeded to the later stages of the championship and some even to the final itself

 

 

Silly statement?? WoW. OK, so when were all but 4 or 5 riders ever seeded directly to any one off World Final? None that I can remember and thats over a 40 odd year period.

In todays GP series, we have the top 8 seeded, plus the permanent Wild Cards, with just 3 riders actually qualifying from the GP challenge at Coventry on Friday evening.

And I am not going back as far as the Star Trophy, or whtever it was called way back when the likes of Price and co were racing, as that wasn't ratified by the FIM as an official

World Championship, to the best of my knowledge.

I am talking about the FIM approved World Championship.

 

Of course some riders got a free ticket to a World Final, but never ever to the degree that

they do today. So please refrain from stating that it was a silly statement and check the

facts that are there for all to see.

Oh and if you're looking for an argument for the sake of it.... dont even bother.

Edited September 17, 2009 by tomcat

[AndyM]

And for crying out load, leave the locals to do the Bydgodszcz track. It`s the best track in the world when prepared correctly.

Generally true, but remember Ullevi 2003?

Also; you need to change the format. People are tired of looking at the same 16 riders week in and week out. There should be some kind of qualifiers before each GP to get some new faces in there for every meeting. One wildcard to please the locals is not enough.

Start with a pool of, say, 24 riders and select them so each rides a certain number of GPs but not all?

[Maddas69]

Generally true, but remember Ullevi 2003?

 

Start with a pool of, say, 24 riders and select them so each rides a certain number of GPs but not all?

 

Yes I remember Ullevi, but that was/is a one-off track not a permanent one.

[jeff...]

Silly statement?? WoW. OK, so when were all but 4 or 5 riders ever seeded directly to any one off World Final? None that I can remember and thats over a 40 odd year period.

 

In todays GP series, we have the top 8 seeded, plus the permanent Wild Cards, with just 3 riders actually qualifying from the GP challenge at Coventry on Friday evening.

And I am not going back as far as the Star Trophy, or whtever it was called way back when the likes of Price and co were racing, as that wasn't ratified by the FIM as an official

World Championship, to the best of my knowledge.

I am talking about the FIM approved World Championship.

 

Of course some riders got a free ticket to a World Final, but never ever to the degree that

they do today. So please refrain from stating that it was a silly statement and check the

facts that are there for all to see.

Oh and if you're looking for an argument for the sake of it.... dont even bother.

 

You are struggling with this aren't you, the top eight are not seeded anymore than the top eight in the old Inter Continental Final were seeded. It seems to have escaped your attention but the top eight qualify by being in the top eight. A place earned, not given.

 

Then we have the three who qualify via the challenge so now we are up to 11 that have legitimately qualified.

 

1 place is kept open for a wild card position with the other 4, yes only 4, being seeded riders.

 

Ever heard the saying, "sometimes it is better to say nothing and have people think you a fool than say something and confirm it". very apt is it not?

 

[Humphrey Appleby]

It seems to have escaped your attention but the top eight qualify by being in the top eight. A place earned, not given.

 

However one calls it, getting into the GP by virtue of finishing in the top 8 is still a form of seeding, as is the local wildcard.

 

[iris123]

However one calls it, getting into the GP by virtue of finishing in the top 8 is still a form of seeding, as is the local wildcard.

Or qualifying......by managing to get through the qualifying process.Whether that be this year or next,they have qualified by the rules set out in advance.You call it tamata i call it tomata....or something

[Blazeaway]

Or qualifying......by managing to get through the qualifying process.Whether that be this year or next,they have qualified by the rules set out in advance.You call it tamata i call it tomata....or something

 

 

Agree completely, it's like we're related or summat!!