norbold Posted September 14, 2009 Report Share Posted September 14, 2009 Before we start that, we'll have to work out the venues for each World Final All the best Rob Wembley for all of them of course! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsloes 1928 nearly Posted September 14, 2009 Report Share Posted September 14, 2009 Wembley for all of them of course! Hmm, apart from the years when it was being rebuilt...!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norbold Posted September 14, 2009 Report Share Posted September 14, 2009 Hmm, apart from the years when it was being rebuilt...!!! These are fantasy World Championship Finals we're talking about. My imagination can run to Wembley not being rebuilt! Besides, you could give me a lift back to London after every final that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsloes 1928 nearly Posted September 14, 2009 Report Share Posted September 14, 2009 These are fantasy World Championship Finals we're talking about. My imagination can run to Wembley not being rebuilt! Besides, you could give me a lift back to London after every final that way. That's not much a fantasy as a nightmare!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucifer sam Posted September 14, 2009 Report Share Posted September 14, 2009 That's not much a fantasy as a nightmare!!! Parsloes, I've heard stories about your driving - surely it can't be THAT bad!! All the best Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norbold Posted September 14, 2009 Report Share Posted September 14, 2009 Believe me, Rob, it is. Take it from one who knows! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsloes 1928 nearly Posted September 14, 2009 Report Share Posted September 14, 2009 Yes - there's as much chance of norbold agreeing to get back into my car as there is me getting that pint off Rob!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucifer sam Posted September 14, 2009 Report Share Posted September 14, 2009 (edited) Yes - there's as much chance of norbold agreeing to get back into my car as there is me getting that pint off Rob!!! It's not my fault you're always doing the tiling All the best Rob Edited September 14, 2009 by lucifer sam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsloes 1928 nearly Posted September 14, 2009 Report Share Posted September 14, 2009 It's not my fault you're always doing the tiling All the best Rob Which is the time I most need a pint!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucifer sam Posted September 14, 2009 Report Share Posted September 14, 2009 (edited) I'm not convinced at all regarding Sanders in '83. Other than second place in Norden, what else did he do that year? There's more of a case, I would say, for Nielsen, Gundersen, Lee, Sigalos or maybe Carter. Just to answer my own question, Sanders was white hot in the 1983 World Pairs Final as well as finishing runner-up in Norden. So he's a contender - along with Nielsen, Gundersen, Lee, Sigalos and maybe Carter. I think '83 may be the hardest year of the lot to try to work out the winner (although 1936 is still causing problems ). Who would it have been in '83? I'm really not sure. The contenders are: * Hans Nielsen - won the Nordic and Inter-Continental Finals, was favourite heading into the World Final, would have probably finished runner-up in Norden bar an engine failure whilst leading Muller, and in great form for Birmingham all season. * Erik Gundersen - won the BLRC at Belle Vue, scored a maximum in the WTC Final, and led Cradley to victory in the British League. * Michael Lee - a move to Poole revitalised his career, finished third in the World Final. * Dennis Sigalos - topped the BL averages with Ipswich. * Kenny Carter - partnered Peter Collins to victory in the World Pairs Final, but not quite the rider he was in '82. * Billy Sanders - the individual star of the World Pairs Final, finished second in Norden and registered an impressive average with Ipswich. Six riders who COULD have won the '83 GP series, but no-one stands out... All the best Rob Edited September 14, 2009 by lucifer sam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arnieg Posted September 15, 2009 Report Share Posted September 15, 2009 (edited) Right, we've leapt forward a bit but I think it's time for people to nail their colours to the mast for 1964-1878. My own choices are: .... 1971 - Ivan Mauger 1972 - Ole Olsen 1973 - Ivan Mauger 1974 - Ivan Mauger 1975 - Ivan Mauger 1976 - Peter Collins 1977 - Ole Olsen 1978 - Ole Olsen Well, since we're racing ahead, I reckon: 1979 - Michael Lee (and yes he would have been in it. In fact, he had an outstnading 1977 season and would have qualified for the 1978 GP series). 1980 - Dave Jessup 1981 - Bruce Penhall 1982 - either Bruce Penhall or Kenny Carter - discuss wink.gif 1983 - no outstanding candidate, probably Hans Nielsen but I could be persuaded elsewhere on this one 1984 - Erik Gundersen - IMO, this was his best year and I think it unthinkable that Erik wouldn't have won a single GP series 1985 - Hans Nielsen (Nielsen stepped up his game even further this season) 1986 - Hans Nielsen 1987 - Hans Nielsen 1988 - Hans Nielsen 1989 - Hans Nielsen 1990 - Hans Nielsen (Actually not Hans's best year by a long shot, I think Gundersen's accident was on his mind, but who else could have won a GP series this season? There isn't anyone!) 1991 - Jan O. Pedersen 1992 - Per Jonsson 1993 - Hans Nielsen (remember lay-downs would be allowed in the GP series and Ermolenko didn't have one icon_smile_wink.gif ) 1994 - Hans Nielsen All the best Rob My thoughts starting in 71 because that's where I can start adding personal recollection to interpretation of statistics. 71 - agreed - Mauger 72 - agreed Olsen 73 - Michanek - his form was stunning that season he won the following open meetings on British tracks (as well as topping the averages by a country mile): The Spring Classic (Wimbledon), Manpower (Reading), Pride of the East (King's Lynn), Blue Riband (Poole), Golden Gauntlets (Leicester), Brandonapolis (Coventry), Superama (Hackney), Champion of Champions (Wolverhampton), Prince of Wales Trophy (Newport), Autumn Classic (Halifax), Brew XI Trophy (Wolverhampton) 74 - Mauger agreed 75 - undecided I think it's a close call between Mauger and Collins, and I'm also taken by the Crump argument. As the GP appears to have benefited older riders I suspect that you may be right and Mauger's experience would have told in the end 76 - Collins agreed 77 - I think I'd go for Collins rather than Olsen, but it is a close call (and of course there is PC's broken leg) 78 - Olsen agreed 79 another tricky one - I think I'll go with Lee, but I'm tempted to put in a claim for Scott Autrey 80 - I just can't see Jessup winning. Lee is my choice again but Collins, Penhall and Nielsen wouldn't be far behind 81- Penhall of course 82 - although it pains me to say as I was firmly in the Penhall camp, my choice is Carter 83 - a really tough choice but I'm going for Sigalos (add his really impressive test scores v England to topping the averages) 84 - 90 Nielsen everytime but I am sure that Gundersen would have pipped him somewhere along the line. If everything went to form Gundo would have been second 5 years in a row (and would have been heading for 2nd in 89 ahead of Shawn Moran or Kelvin Tatum). I think Moran would have been 2nd in 1990 (assuming he wasn't stripped of his position through over-indulgence in cough medicine) Note that in 84 Nielsen was way ahead of Gudersen in the British averages, but that was due to the new tape touching rule - which didn't apply at FIM level. 91 Nielsen again with Jonsson second (Jonsson was second to Nielsen in Polish averages and topped Swedish averages with Nielsen second) 92 Jonsson agreed 93 Ermolenko not Nielsen In my view. He was just superb that year. As well as topping British averages by some distance he also topped Polish averages with Nielsen 2nd. 94 agree with Nielsen, but Jonsson might have been leading before his accident (Per topped Polish and British averages that season) Edited September 15, 2009 by arnieg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salty Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 Well, since we're racing ahead, I reckon: 1983 - no outstanding candidate, probably Hans Nielsen but I could be persuaded elsewhere on this one 1984 - Erik Gundersen - IMO, this was his best year and I think it unthinkable that Erik wouldn't have won a single GP series 1985 - Hans Nielsen (Nielsen stepped up his game even further this season) 1986 - Hans Nielsen 1987 - Hans Nielsen 1988 - Hans Nielsen 1989 - Hans Nielsen 1990 - Hans Nielsen (Actually not Hans's best year by a long shot, I think Gundersen's accident was on his mind, but who else could have won a GP series this season? There isn't anyone!) 1991 - Jan O. Pedersen 1992 - Per Jonsson 1993 - Hans Nielsen (remember lay-downs would be allowed in the GP series and Ermolenko didn't have one ) 1994 - Hans Nielsen Sorry TNT, but I can't see Ermolenko ever taking a GP series. In Ermolenko's best domestic season (1993), Nielsen would have had the advanatage of being on lay-downs. Nielsen looked the fastest rider at the '93 World Final by quite a way. All the best Rob Not surprising that you should have nailed your colours to the Nielsen mast. No arguing that he was the most consistent rider in most of the years above. However, in those days consistency didn't win you the World Title on the big night. Gundersen was able to peak for those 5 rides and thus got his 3 titles. I am sure if a different approach had been required then Erik would have adapted accordingly and would have been able to compete (and win) over a 6 round GP series. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asturmer Posted September 20, 2009 Report Share Posted September 20, 2009 I think at one stage in the 80,s Bo Petersen was almost at this level, but more part of a team like Denmark, than an individual winner! Not sure if he won any pairs or World team championship? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucifer sam Posted September 26, 2009 Report Share Posted September 26, 2009 I think at one stage in the 80,s Bo Petersen was almost at this level, but more part of a team like Denmark, than an individual winner! Not sure if he won any pairs or World team championship? Bo Petersen's best year was probably 1980, when he almost led Hackney to the most unexpected British League win of all-time. Bo was very inconsistent - he scored a maximum for Denmark in the 1984 World Team Cup, but failed to score in his other 2 World Team Cup Final appearances. Any more for any more on the years 1928-1994. All the best Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norbold Posted September 26, 2009 Report Share Posted September 26, 2009 1940 - Arthur Atkinson 1941 - Jack Parker 1942 - Eric Chitty 1943 - Bill Kitchen 1944 - Vic Duggan 1945 - Vic Duggan War Time years - a field for endless speculation.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulco Posted September 26, 2009 Report Share Posted September 26, 2009 1940 - Arthur Atkinson 1941 - Jack Parker 1942 - Eric Chitty 1943 - Bill Kitchen 1944 - Vic Duggan 1945 - Vic Duggan War Time years - a field for endless speculation.... Would all depend if they negotiated the German , Polish and Czech GP's without getting shot or captured . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucifer sam Posted September 26, 2009 Report Share Posted September 26, 2009 1940 - Arthur Atkinson 1941 - Jack Parker 1942 - Eric Chitty 1943 - Bill Kitchen 1944 - Vic Duggan 1945 - Vic Duggan War Time years - a field for endless speculation.... Norbold, I think we can count out any European-based GPs during that period (large sporting events were banned in Britain, as they would have made perfect targets for German bombs) - the whole series would have taken in Australia. In which case, Vic Duggan would have been the dominant force. OK, moving onto an idea suggested by Grachan. Having staged a GP series from 1928 to 1994, the FIM decide to shake up the championship by introducing a one-off final in 1995. Who would have won each year? All the best Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted September 26, 2009 Report Share Posted September 26, 2009 Norbold, I think we can count out any European-based GPs during that period (large sporting events were banned in Britain, as they would have made perfect targets for German bombs) - the whole series would have taken in Australia. In which case, Vic Duggan would have been the dominant force. OK, moving onto an idea suggested by Grachan. Having staged a GP series from 1928 to 1994, the FIM decide to shake up the championship by introducing a one-off final in 1995. Who would have won each year? All the best Rob Think you will have to sort out the venues for those first Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucifer sam Posted September 26, 2009 Report Share Posted September 26, 2009 Think you will have to sort out the venues for those first Rob Well fourtunately some FIM documentation from an alternative universe has just appeared through a wormhole in my bedroom and reveals the venues as follows: 1995 - Hackney, GB 1996 - Lonigo, Italy 1997 - Wroclaw, Poland 1998 - Prague, Czech Republic 1999 - Vojens, Denmark 2000 - Bydgoszcz, Poland 2001 - Cardiff, GB 2002 - Sydney, Australia 2003 - Stockholm, Sweden 2004 - Cardiff, GB 2005 - Bydgoszcz, Poland 2006 - Copenhagen, Denmark 2007 - Cardiff, GB 2008 - Bydgoszcz, Poland (after cancellation of Gelsenkirchen, Germany) All the best Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norbold Posted September 26, 2009 Report Share Posted September 26, 2009 (edited) Would all depend if they negotiated the German , Polish and Czech GP's without getting shot or captured . Norbold, I think we can count out any European-based GPs during that period (large sporting events were banned in Britain, as they would have made perfect targets for German bombs) - the whole series would have taken in Australia. In which case, Vic Duggan would have been the dominant force. All the best Rob I was assuming there would have been no War for the purposes of this. Edited September 26, 2009 by norbold Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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