Robbie B Posted August 28, 2009 Report Share Posted August 28, 2009 (edited) Tommy Jansson, I'm sure would have been World Champion. Other riders I would say Vic Huxley and Kenny Carter. Edited August 28, 2009 by Robbie B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
star ghost Posted August 28, 2009 Report Share Posted August 28, 2009 Arne Pander and Rune Sormander are the two I will mention. Together with the greats who rode when there was no World title to win. Cordy Milne and Wilbur Lamoreaux were top Americans but I think Scott Autrey also deserves mention. Unfortunately Jessup didnt bother enough to even go to the practice so he has no place in my ideas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grachan Posted August 28, 2009 Report Share Posted August 28, 2009 Anyone who remembers Michanek at this prime will know that, yes, he was without doubt the best in the world in '73 and '74 and would easily have won a GP series in those years. I do remember Michanek in his prime. My reasoning was more to do with not being convinced he would have had the dedication and commitment to win over a full season - based ore on his interviews than his undoubted ability. He has also admitted he didn't really like being World Champion and was pleased to drop points in his first ride in 1975, so he could relax and enjoy the meeting without worrying about having to be World Champ again. So it's more based on that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaiser Posted August 28, 2009 Report Share Posted August 28, 2009 I can only really include riders that i have been fortunate to have seen at there peak, on that basis i would go for Shawn Moran, Kenny Carter and Billy Sanders, all were quality riders. From the current gp system got to be Leigh Adams and Tomaz Gollob. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted August 28, 2009 Report Share Posted August 28, 2009 Imo some people seem to be regarding this as a "best rider never to have won a World Title" thread.I would say that is different to a World Champions that never were thread.A rider that had not only the ability,but the right attitude to win a World Title.I guess Farndon,Huxley and Parker can be included because they won what was the World Championship of the time without the title,meeting.Star Riders Championship.But i don't think the Morans can be included as they might have had the ability,but not the right attitude........same for a lot of riders mentioned here.Tommy Jansson would be one i would tentatively mention.Who knows how good he could have been? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsloes 1928 nearly Posted August 28, 2009 Report Share Posted August 28, 2009 I do remember Michanek in his prime. My reasoning was more to do with not being convinced he would have had the dedication and commitment to win over a full season - based ore on his interviews than his undoubted ability. He has also admitted he didn't really like being World Champion and was pleased to drop points in his first ride in 1975, so he could relax and enjoy the meeting without worrying about having to be World Champ again. So it's more based on that. Mind you he still finished SECOND in that '75 World Final - so his 'plan' to relinquish the title nearly didn't work out too well..!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOBBATH Posted August 28, 2009 Report Share Posted August 28, 2009 I agree with Michanek for both 73 and 74. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Panda Posted August 28, 2009 Report Share Posted August 28, 2009 Under the current system it has to be Gollob, Adams and Ryan Sullivan............................. Under the single final system it would be Dennis Sigalos, Kelly Moran and Malcolm Simmons.................. RP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phlipphlopp Posted August 28, 2009 Report Share Posted August 28, 2009 Scott Autrey would have made the very top under the current system, and maybe the one off finals.His big fall-out with the AMA ended his ambitions, and ultimatly his love affair with speedway.Better than Penhall in many's eyes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Panda Posted August 28, 2009 Report Share Posted August 28, 2009 Scott Autrey would have made the very top under the current system, and maybe the one off finals.His big fall-out with the AMA ended his ambitions, and ultimatly his love affair with speedway.Better than Penhall in many's eyes. He was brilliant in his time at Poole...................would have loved to have seen him win.............. RP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucifer sam Posted August 29, 2009 Report Share Posted August 29, 2009 Ermolenko was so good in 93 that he would have won it that year under a GP format too Ermolenko's league form that year was excellent, but could he have beaten Nielsen over a 11-round GP series? - I very much doubt it. Nielsen was a fairly easy winner of the first GP series in 1995, despite being past his prime of 1983-1991. The GP series is all about consistency and Nielsen is the probably most consistent rider of all-time. Ivan Mauger is of the opinion that had a GP series been introduced in 1990 rather than in 1995, then Nielsen would have won at least 7 World titles. I can't disagree with that. All the best Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norbold Posted August 29, 2009 Report Share Posted August 29, 2009 Ivan Mauger is of the opinion that had a GP series been introduced in 1990 rather than in 1995, then Nielsen would have won at least 7 World titles. I can't disagree with that. Food for thought here... If the GP had been introduced in 1936 instead of 1995 and the GP had re-started immediately after the War, how many titles would Bluey Wilkinson, Vic Duggan, Jack Young, Ove Fundin and Ivan Mauger have won (for example). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grachan Posted August 29, 2009 Report Share Posted August 29, 2009 If the GP had been around in the 80s and 90s it's quite possible that Hans Neilsen would have won every year from 1984 to 1995 - and perhaps 1983 as well. Maybe Gundersen might have nicked one or possibly two, but in terms of consistency nobody was close to Neilsen over that period, and some of the mistakes he made in Finals would have been barely noticed over an entire series. I guess Dave Jessup's engine failure in 1978 makes him a possible "World Champ that never was" - but I'm not convinced he would have won. And Les Collins might have won in 1982 had Bruce Penhall either not knocked off Kenny Carter or been excluded as he should have been. And, had the race been re-run without Penhall, then Carter might have been World Champ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T.N.T. Posted August 30, 2009 Report Share Posted August 30, 2009 (edited) Well, easier if you weren't the best rider in the world. Possibly harder if you were - as Hans Neilsen would probably testify. There are many riders who probably wouldn't have made World Champ under the GP system. I doubt even riders like Ermolenko, Michanek and Jan O. Pedersen would have Anders Mitchaneck could well have been as he averaged 11+ in the 73 season while Sam was quite frankly brilliant after coming back from his big crash and 93 was a brilliant year for him, but he did end up the season with a broken leg ! Ermolenko's league form that year was excellent, but could he have beaten Nielsen over a 11-round GP series? - I very much doubt it. Nielsen was a fairly easy winner of the first GP series in 1995, despite being past his prime of 1983-1991. The GP series is all about consistency and Nielsen is the probably most consistent rider of all-time. Nielsen for me would have won the title virtually ever year from the early 80's to the mid 90's had the GP's been in place which casts more shadows over the fact that maybe Havelock, Jonsson, O'Pedersen and even Gundersen may not have won the title had it been over a season. There are loads of riders that could have been World Champion over the years going back to Bill Kitchen, Ron Johnston, Vic Huxley, Jack Parker etc, but in the near 40 years I have been watching I would nominate as could have been World Champions on a one-off night as ........ Dave Jessup Leigh Adams Tomasz Gollob Billy Sanders Dennis Sigalos weird how an Anglian theme runs through these names ! Edited August 30, 2009 by T.N.T. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grachan Posted August 30, 2009 Report Share Posted August 30, 2009 Anders Mitchaneck could well have been as he averaged 11+ in the 73 season while Sam was quite frankly brilliant after coming back from his big crash and 93 was a brilliant year for him, Michanek only scored 6 in the 1973 World Final though, which must be some sort of indication. For anyone other than Gundersen to have won a Grand Prix World title when Hans Neilsen was at his prime would have been a miracle. I doubt even Per Jonsson would have won one - and Per Jonsson was truly brilliant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted August 30, 2009 Report Share Posted August 30, 2009 I don't think it is quite so easy to say "look at his league form".Winning a title no matter if it is in a GP series or a one meeting title need bottle to get past the "Oh i am in with a chance of winning this thing" scenario.Lot's of riders choke in that situation,as do other sportsmen and women.I think Hans had a bit of a psychological problem at first which would have been there in a GP series just as much as the one day finals.Even he was on record back in the 80s as saying he didn't like big tracks.And in a GP series how many of the tracks would have been of a fair size back then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grachan Posted August 30, 2009 Report Share Posted August 30, 2009 I think Neilsen's problem was that, at a crucial point in the World Final, he'd get into a paddy and over-ride. Even when he finally won the title he did this - and was let off by a shocking refereeing decision after bringing Knudsen off. In a GP he'd have just plugged away scoring points without having to deal with such do-or-die crucial situations. We could have been looking at a 10 times World Champ if the GP had been around then in it's current form. I'm convinced of that in my own little world. If the GP had been around in its previous form with the KO rounds I think it's more likely he might have blown a few. Gundersen might have had a bit of an edge in those with his "big race" mentality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted August 30, 2009 Report Share Posted August 30, 2009 Yes an important point about what system of GP people are assuming would have been used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsloes 1928 nearly Posted August 30, 2009 Report Share Posted August 30, 2009 Food for thought here... If the GP had been introduced in 1936 instead of 1995 and the GP had re-started immediately after the War, how many titles would Bluey Wilkinson, Vic Duggan, Jack Young, Ove Fundin and Ivan Mauger have won (for example). Hmm, well in Bluey's case surely not that many, as sadly he was dead before 1940 was up.. You'd obviously know this as I know you've read Dr. Belton's excellent biography...!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norbold Posted August 30, 2009 Report Share Posted August 30, 2009 Hmm, well in Bluey's case surely not that many, as sadly he was dead before 1940 was up.. True. But he could well have won all three pre-War finals. You'd obviously know this as I know you've read Dr. Belton's excellent biography...!! Don't get me started! I'd rather let you drive me round London than read any more of Dr Belton's books! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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