norbold Posted September 13, 2009 Report Share Posted September 13, 2009 And i think Paris would have had a good chance of a GP.It was running it's [sic, tut tut, Doug] ]own World Final during the 30s. Stan Greatrex won the 1935 Dutch Championship with Nobby Key in 2nd place. They were regular visitors in 1934 and 5. So perhaps Holland could have had a GP as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted September 13, 2009 Report Share Posted September 13, 2009 Stan Greatrex won the 1935 Dutch Championship with Nobby Key in 2nd place. They were regular visitors in 1934 and 5. So perhaps Holland could have had a GP as well. Sorry Norbold.It was early.But yes i agree at the time speedway was more cosmopolitan than the period just after the war and into the 50s.Not really sure when Poland got into speedway in a big way though.But Morian Hansen showed that the continentals could get amongst the points and speedway was being held in big stadiums in big cities to large crowds.Like i mentioned before somewhere,the Hamburg Dirt Track was the venue for the largest ever crowd at a European boxing match,when Max Schmeling fought there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucifer sam Posted September 13, 2009 Report Share Posted September 13, 2009 1977 was certainly PC's year but he was also dominant in '76 - including beating Mauger in the Inter-Continental Final: PC beating Mauger in a Wembley run-off as he had in '74 too.. Ivan's deluding himself to think he was the best rider in the world in '76..: he knows he 100% certainly wasn't in '77 and so thinks that he can theorise about '76 and get away with it... he can't!! I know we're not there yet but to me GP wise, it would've been Michanek in '73; too close to call between Michanek & PC in '74; and then a shoo-in for Collins in '75 through to '78. Whilst PC is very much up there in 1976 and 1977, there's no way he would have trumphed in '74, '75 or '78. 1978 is Olsen's most dominant year, whilst 1974 is probably Mauger maybe Michanek, and 1975 is a toss-up between Mauger, Olsen and maybe Phil Crump for the mechanical advantage that Grachan has mentioned (although I don't Crump would have been in the '75 series). Of course, we should not completely dismiss Malcolm Simmons from the equation. His best season was 1976. I think Peter Collins would have won in '76, but would have had Mauger and Simmons breathing down his neck. All the best Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucifer sam Posted September 13, 2009 Report Share Posted September 13, 2009 Right, we've leapt forward a bit but I think it's time for people to nail their colours to the mast for 1964-1878. My own choices are: 1964 - Bjorn Knutsson 1965 - Igor Plechanov 1966 - Barry Briggs 1967 - Barry Briggs 1968 - Ivan Mauger 1969 - Ivan Mauger 1970 - Ivan Mauger 1971 - Ivan Mauger 1972 - Ole Olsen 1973 - Ivan Mauger 1974 - Ivan Mauger 1975 - Ivan Mauger 1976 - Peter Collins 1977 - Ole Olsen 1978 - Ole Olsen All the best Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norbold Posted September 13, 2009 Report Share Posted September 13, 2009 I think I would agree with that except maybe Briggs in 1964, which would leave Plechanov with nothing but there you go...the nearly man of World Championships and of GPs! Also I would go for Collins in 77 instead of Olsen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted September 13, 2009 Report Share Posted September 13, 2009 Interesting theory about Crump not even being in the 75 series.He was out injured in 73,but did comeback for the 73/74 Aussie season.But his scores against the British Lions were nothing to shout about and he didn't win the Aussie Championship.So maybe he would have missed out in the 74 quali series He flunked it in the British semi final that year big time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucifer sam Posted September 13, 2009 Report Share Posted September 13, 2009 I think I would agree with that except maybe Briggs in 1964, which would leave Plechanov with nothing but there you go...the nearly man of World Championships and of GPs! Also I would go for Collins in 77 instead of Olsen. Norbold - just to confirm, I had Plechanov for '65 not '64. If you have Briggs for '64, who do you have for '65? All the best Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norbold Posted September 13, 2009 Report Share Posted September 13, 2009 Ooops, sorry, Rob. I have Knutson for 1965. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsloes 1928 nearly Posted September 13, 2009 Report Share Posted September 13, 2009 Whilst PC is very much up there in 1976 and 1977, there's no way he would have trumphed in '74, '75 or '78. In '74 PC won both the Internationale and the European Final - both world class fields at least as good as the final in Gothenberg where he didn't do so well. In '75 only some muppets invading the Wembley track to go mad with a hosepipe denied him a proper crack at Olsen in that WF - over a series he'd have been a definite threat. And in '78 the sugar' put in his tank in the British Final meant he didn't qualify for the Final: a tragedy and a disgrace.. As for you keep saying he wouldn't have won in '77 - that's bananas. PC was head and shoulders best in the world in '77.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T.N.T. Posted September 13, 2009 Report Share Posted September 13, 2009 (edited) Jumping ahead a little bit 1981 Bruce Penhall 1982 Bruce Penhall 1983 ... ? (Hans Nielsen) 1984 Hans Nielsen 1985 Hans Nielsen 1986 Hans Nielsen 1987 Hans Nielsen 1988 Hans Nielsen 1989 Hans Nielsen 1990 Hans Nielsen 1991 Hans Nielsen 1992 Sam Ermolenko 1993 Sam Ermolenko 1994 Hans Nielsen 1995 Hans Nielsen Anyone disagree Edited September 13, 2009 by T.N.T. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grachan Posted September 13, 2009 Report Share Posted September 13, 2009 Jumping ahead a little bit 1981 Bruce Penhall 1982 Bruce Penhall 1983 ... ? (Hans Nielsen) 1984 Hans Nielsen 1985 Hans Nielsen 1986 Hans Nielsen 1987 Hans Nielsen 1988 Hans Nielsen 1989 Hans Nielsen 1990 Hans Nielsen 1991 Hans Nielsen 1992 Sam Ermolenko 1993 Sam Ermolenko 1994 Hans Nielsen 1995 Hans Nielsen Anyone disagree Maybe Hans Neilsen in 92 and 93? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaiser Posted September 13, 2009 Report Share Posted September 13, 2009 Jumping ahead a little bit 1981 Bruce Penhall 1982 Bruce Penhall 1983 ... ? (Hans Nielsen) 1984 Hans Nielsen 1985 Hans Nielsen 1986 Hans Nielsen 1987 Hans Nielsen 1988 Hans Nielsen 1989 Hans Nielsen 1990 Hans Nielsen 1991 Hans Nielsen 1992 Sam Ermolenko 1993 Sam Ermolenko 1994 Hans Nielsen 1995 Hans Nielsen Anyone disagree Yep!!!! 1980 Lee 1981 Penhall, awesome display of riding. 1982 Collins Les, very unlucky with the carter penhall rerun incident, plus he won the earlier intercontinental round. 1983 Sanders, Muller only won because of a doctored Norden track (well thats what my dad said!!! ). 1984 Gunder the wonder, you bet ya!!!! 1985 Shawn Moran, won both Overseas and intercontinental finals, then made a balls of it at Odsal 1986 Tommy Knudsen, knocked off by Nielsen (granted the main dane deserved a bit of luck, but he sure got it here!!!). 1987 Hans Nielsen 1988 Erik again!!!! 1989 Hans Nielsen 1990 Per Johnsson, sorry about spelling!!!! THAT ENOUGH FOR NOW, MY FINGERS ARE HURTING!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsloes 1928 nearly Posted September 13, 2009 Report Share Posted September 13, 2009 Jumping ahead a little bit 1995 Hans Nielsen Anyone disagree Well clearly not with '95 coz that was the first year of the GPs: and Nielsen did indeed win!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grachan Posted September 13, 2009 Report Share Posted September 13, 2009 Well clearly not with '95 coz that was the first year of the GPs: and Nielsen did indeed win!!! Ah, but would he have won if it had been a one-off World Final? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsloes 1928 nearly Posted September 13, 2009 Report Share Posted September 13, 2009 Ah, but would he have won if it had been a one-off World Final? Good point!! That'll have to be the next thread after this one!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucifer sam Posted September 13, 2009 Report Share Posted September 13, 2009 (edited) Jumping ahead a little bit 1981 Bruce Penhall 1982 Bruce Penhall 1983 ... ? (Hans Nielsen) 1984 Hans Nielsen 1985 Hans Nielsen 1986 Hans Nielsen 1987 Hans Nielsen 1988 Hans Nielsen 1989 Hans Nielsen 1990 Hans Nielsen 1991 Hans Nielsen 1992 Sam Ermolenko 1993 Sam Ermolenko 1994 Hans Nielsen 1995 Hans Nielsen Anyone disagree Well, since we're racing ahead, I reckon: 1979 - Michael Lee (and yes he would have been in it. In fact, he had an outstnading 1977 season and would have qualified for the 1978 GP series). 1980 - Dave Jessup 1981 - Bruce Penhall 1982 - either Bruce Penhall or Kenny Carter - discuss 1983 - no outstanding candidate, probably Hans Nielsen but I could be persuaded elsewhere on this one 1984 - Erik Gundersen - IMO, this was his best year and I think it unthinkable that Erik wouldn't have won a single GP series 1985 - Hans Nielsen (Nielsen stepped up his game even further this season) 1986 - Hans Nielsen 1987 - Hans Nielsen 1988 - Hans Nielsen 1989 - Hans Nielsen 1990 - Hans Nielsen (Actually not Hans's best year by a long shot, I think Gundersen's accident was on his mind, but who else could have won a GP series this season? There isn't anyone!) 1991 - Jan O. Pedersen 1992 - Per Jonsson 1993 - Hans Nielsen (remember lay-downs would be allowed in the GP series and Ermolenko didn't have one ) 1994 - Hans Nielsen Sorry TNT, but I can't see Ermolenko ever taking a GP series. In Ermolenko's best domestic season (1993), Nielsen would have had the advanatage of being on lay-downs. Nielsen looked the fastest rider at the '93 World Final by quite a way. All the best Rob Edited September 13, 2009 by lucifer sam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucifer sam Posted September 13, 2009 Report Share Posted September 13, 2009 Maybe Hans Neilsen in 92 and 93? In '93 probably, but not '92. That would have been Jonsson's year. TNT, how do you figure Ermolenko was better than Jonsson in '92 - he blantantly wasn't All the best Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff... Posted September 13, 2009 Report Share Posted September 13, 2009 Well, since we're racing ahead, I reckon: 1979 - Michael Lee (and yes he would have been in it. In fact, he had an outstnading 1977 season and would have qualified for the 1978 GP series). 1980 - Dave Jessup 1981 - Bruce Penhall 1982 - either Bruce Penhall or Kenny Carter - discuss 1983 - no outstanding candidate, probably Hans Nielsen but I could be persuaded elsewhere on this one 1984 - Erik Gundersen - IMO, this was his best year and I think it unthinkable that Erik wouldn't have won a single GP series 1985 - Hans Nielsen (Nielsen stepped up his game even further this season) 1986 - Hans Nielsen 1987 - Hans Nielsen 1988 - Hans Nielsen 1989 - Hans Nielsen 1990 - Hans Nielsen (Actually not Hans's best year by a long shot, I think Gundersen's accident was on his mind, but who else could have won a GP series this season? There isn't anyone!) 1991 - Jan O. Pedersen 1992 - Per Jonsson 1993 - Hans Nielsen (remember lay-downs would be allowed in the GP series and Ermolenko didn't have one ) 1994 - Hans Nielsen Sorry TNT, but I can't see Ermolenko ever taking a GP series. In Ermolenko's best domestic season (1993), Nielsen would have had the advanatage of being on lay-downs. Nielsen looked the fastest rider at the '93 World Final by quite a way. All the best Rob 1983 was sort of between eras, Penhall had gone, Olsen, Mauger, Collins etc were well past there sell by dates. On the other hand the Nielsen Gundersen domination hadn't really begun. The man likely to have succeeded that year was probably Billy Sanders Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucifer sam Posted September 13, 2009 Report Share Posted September 13, 2009 Ah, but would he have won if it had been a one-off World Final? Before we start that, we'll have to work out the venues for each World Final All the best Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucifer sam Posted September 13, 2009 Report Share Posted September 13, 2009 (edited) 1983 was sort of between eras, Penhall had gone, Olsen, Mauger, Collins etc were well past there sell by dates. On the other hand the Nielsen Gundersen domination hadn't really begun. The man likely to have succeeded that year was probably Billy Sanders I'm not convinced at all regarding Sanders in '83. Other than second place in Norden, what else did he do that year? There's more of a case, I would say, for Nielsen, Gundersen, Lee, Sigalos or maybe Carter. I'm not sure whether a GP series would have suited Carter or not. He had a habit of going to pieces at a vital time, and I don't think that would help in either a World Final OR a GP series. Although in 1982, it's arguable that he could have got into such a situation where it wasn't that tight. But had Penhall stayed with him with '82, he would have nailed Carter in the final couple of rounds as the Englishman went to pieces. Another tricky year is '79. Olsen and Collins both dipped in form that season, and Mauger had one last great season, but could he have kept it up all season in a GP series at the age of 39? In the end, I plumped for Lee, who in many ways, rode better in '79 than he did in '80. All the best Rob Edited September 13, 2009 by lucifer sam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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