Swc - The Joker

[i_support_no_team]

Crump was a complete idiot to pass KK and allow Hampel in as a tactical joker

[lupus]

I presume you are referring to the oft quoted 'away goals count double'? They don't. The team that progresses in a cup tie in the case of a level score on aggregate is the one that has scored the most away goals. Slightly different.

 

The fact remains that today a team was crowned World Champions after scoring fewer points on the track than the runners-up. That can't be right.

 

It's no wonder speedway is not taken seriously.

 

But surely the 'result' is the same. If team A scores 1 at home and 1 away and team B scores 2 at home and 0 away then team A wins despite the fact the score is actually 2-2. I can't see how that is any less stupid than the double points in speedway. For the record I think BOTH these rules are pathetic but it goes to show that it isn't just speedway that has stupid rules!

[lucifer sam]

But surely the 'result' is the same. If team A scores 1 at home and 1 away and team B scores 2 at home and 0 away then team A wins despite the fact the score is actually 2-2. I can't see how that is any less stupid than the double points in speedway. For the record I think BOTH these rules are pathetic but it goes to show that it isn't just speedway that has stupid rules!

 

Lupus, but a team scoring goals can't beat the team scoring more goals.

 

The Speedway World Cup is a circus act thanks to the Joker. Shame becuase it often produces great racing, but it's hard to take seriously when injustices such as today happen.

 

All the best

Rob

 

[Now Then]

I presume you are referring to the oft quoted 'away goals count double'? They don't. The team that progresses in a cup tie in the case of a level score on aggregate is the one that has scored the most away goals. Slightly different.

 

The fact remains that today a team was crowned World Champions after scoring fewer points on the track than the runners-up. That can't be right.

 

It's no wonder speedway is not taken seriously.

Yes Chris R is right. the 'away goals' rule is to encourage attacking play especially away from home, at least where the away goals rule comes into play, both teams would have scored the same number of goals,where in speedway, you are supposed to lose races to gain an advantage. Sad really that now fans are on the terraces, shouting for riders to finish second, or let him thro'.

Regards to all, Alan.

[bruno]

i can nearly!!! understand a tactical in league matches cuz of the advantage of home teams and tracks being all shapes and sizes but not in the world cup. why not have the joker in the gps just to add to the farce.

 

[iris123]

Exactly....the football rule makes sense in a non cheating,encouraging teams to play the game.whereas the speedway rule(most speedway rules in fact) encourage cheating or shall we say not riding to the best of your ability......Speedway in a nutshell

[Bagpuss]

I would ask for a pay rise then ...because your sure making a good job of it

 

You've got an answer for everything...are you my wife?

[lupus]

Lupus, but a team scoring goals can't beat the team scoring more goals.

 

The Speedway World Cup is a circus act thanks to the Joker. Shame becuase it often produces great racing, but it's hard to take seriously when injustices such as today happen.

 

All the best

Rob

 

Fair enough Rob but, as has been said many times, the teams ALL know the rules before the meeting starts and part of the tactics is to know the rules and how to use them best to your advantage. The Poles did that today, the Aussies didn't...end of!

 

Besides I've just seen an even more stupid rule in the British Superbikes that trumps the Joker! For those that haven't seen it during the first race one of the riders hit a bump and his back tyre came off the track, meaning he couldn't brake, and he banjo'd the leader and left oil on the track causing another 5 or 6 riders to fall and the race to be stopped. The race was awarded and anyone who had hit the deck (only one of whom was at fault mind) was disqualified for not racing at the time of the stoppage. Now I'm the first one to moan about speedway's rules but this is just stupid! However, it is in the rule book and everyone knows the rules so the result stands....a bit like the SWC!

[shoestringtours]

QUOTE (Rob B @ Jul 19 2009, 02:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Both teams were daft today, Poland had couple of good chances to use joker earlier on when they went 6 points down twice, Crump should have known or been told no point beating kasprzak by 1 point as they could use joker.

I was astounded that Jason Crump tried so hard and eventually passed the Pole.Maybe someone didn't do the sums at school.I couldn't believe it !!!

[Now Then]

Would have been interesting if the Poles had been in front when the meeting was 'paused'?

 

Regards to all. Alan.

[Bavarian]

QUOTE (Robbie B @ Jul 19 2009, 04:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The joker could make for an interesting meeting, BUT ONLY if ALL teams are allowed to use one, when they want. To penalise a team (whoever they be) for leading the competition is COMPLETLY unfair, and for me made a joke of the result on the 2009 SWC final. I'm sure Australia would never had lost if they could had used a joker.

Exactly right. I used to be very much against the joker, but have to admit it makes the meetings so much more unpredictable. BUT I fully agree that ALL teams should be able to play the joker.

 

But there is a simple solution to this unfair rule. Let any team that had not played the joker in heats 1 to 24, automatically play the joker in the final heat 25. That would be regardless of whether they trail by six or more or are in the lead already.

The meeting would still have been kept close right until the last heat, because those teams trailing by six or more will most probably already have played their jokers.

 

But now in the last heat, the leaders (such as Australia in the SWC finals) or any other team that had not played the joker earlier, will get their fair chance to counter that and go for double points too in that one last race.

 

In today's final in Leszno, Adams would have got four points instead of two for finishing second to Gollob in that heat 25 showdown. Fair enough, as each team would then have had one chance to double their scores during the meeting.

 

This would be fair play for all teams involved and still keep the joker in it to spice up the game.

[barrow boy]

Exactly right. I used to be very much against the joker, but have to admit it makes the meetings so much more unpredictable. BUT I fully agree that ALL teams should be able to play the joker.

 

But there is a simple solution to this unfair rule. Let any team that had not played the joker in heats 1 to 24, automatically play the joker in the final heat 25. That would be regardless of whether they trail by six or more or are in the lead already.

The meeting would still have been kept close right until the last heat, because those teams trailing by six or more will most probably already have played their jokers.

 

But now in the last heat, the leaders (such as Australia in the SWC finals) or any other team that had not played the joker earlier, will get their fair chance to counter that and go for double points too in that one last race.

 

In today's final in Leszno, Adams would have got four points instead of two for finishing second to Gollob in that heat 25 showdown. Fair enough, as each team would then have had one chance to double their scores during the meeting.

 

This would be fair play for all teams involved and still keep the joker in it to spice up the game.

Been saying this for years. I even wrote to BSI about it once but all they said was it was there to keep the racing interesting which is not quite right. What it does is it keeps the scores more interesting. Chris Holder said that they lost because they were just not good enough but they were good enough and should have won. Please get rid of this Mickey Mouse rule or as you say alllow all teams to play it.

[tomcat]

Don't get rid of the Joker rule, make it 8 or 10 points behind before using it.

 

 

Spot on Shadders. Trouble is, its way too sensible for the powers that be.

6 points behind and a potential 6 point Joker, meaning the team playing the joker can

probably draw level is just plain crazy. Using your suggestion, at least it still gives

the leading team half a chance to stay in front.

 

[wotnoaj]

I thouroughly enjoyed the World Cup, including the long long final! Huge credit to the track staff for keeping the meeting going and to the Sky team for filling for so long.

Having said that, after sitting through hours of entertaining Speedway, I ended up feeling cheated by the stupid joker. The best team finished second and Speedway looks amateurish because of it.

[Pollyanna]

I thouroughly enjoyed the World Cup, including the long long final! Huge credit to the track staff for keeping the meeting going and to the Sky team for filling for so long.

Having said that, after sitting through hours of entertaining Speedway, I ended up feeling cheated by the stupid joker. The best team finished second and Speedway looks amateurish because of it.

 

 

Agree with all that!

[barrow boy]

Been saying this for years. I even wrote to BSI about it once but all they said was it was there to keep the racing interesting which is not quite right. What it does is it keeps the scores more interesting. Chris Holder said that they lost because they were just not good enough but they were good enough and should have won. Please get rid of this Mickey Mouse rule or as you say alllow all teams to play it.

I would also add that this has happened before. I believe Sweden won in the last heat when all the other 3 teams had played their aptly named Jokers and Australia who had not were pipped at the death. Unfair I say.

[JSR]

If my memory serves me right this is the second time that a tactical error by Crump and the Aussie management has cost them the World Title. Didn't Crump do a similar thing at Reading about 4 years ago when I think he needed a couple of points in the final race to clinch the title, was holding that position easily but went for a win and either fell of got himself excluded, thus losing the match.

Edited July 20, 2009 by JSR

[lucifer sam]

If my memory serves me right this is the second time that a tactical error by Crump and the Aussie management has cost them the World Title. Didn't Crump do a similar thing at Reading about 4 years ago when I think he needed a couple of points in the final race to clinch the title, was holding that position easily but went for a win and either fell of got himself excluded, thus losing the match.

 

No, you're wrong. It cost the Aussies a rostrum placing, the Danes had already won.

 

All the best

Rob

[al4elt]

No cheating allowed in Speedway I hear you say. Unfortunately its always going to happen until the rules are changed.

 

Hans at Poole gifted the Swedes when he clamped Nicholls (I think) coming out of turn 2 and shut the throttle off.

 

Gollob not sure when but has team rode an opponent home to ensure a better result for the Poles.

 

The facts are simple, had Crump maintained second, Australia would most probably have been World Champions.

 

To add another twist, does anyone else think that a rider should not be able to borrow another team members bike. It was plain to see that Gollob's was not up to scratch yesterday.

Edited July 20, 2009 by Dean'o

[lupus]

No cheating allowed in Speedway I hear you say. Unfortunately its always going to happen until the rules are changed.

 

Hans at Poole gifted the Swedes when he clamped Nicholls (I think) coming out of turn 2 and shut the throttle off.

 

This is one of speedway's great myths...that GB would have won the title that year if Hans hadn't got in Scott's way. This was rubbish then, and it's still rubbish now! Certainly Hans stopped Scott from getting past but it fails to acknowledge that PK - who'd been brilliant all night - had made a superb gate and was half a straight ahead of Scott and Hans at the time. SWEDEN won the title that year...GB were not robbed of certain victory!