Parsloes 1928 nearly Posted July 8, 2009 Report Share Posted July 8, 2009 It's a little late to start rewriting speedway history. Fay Taylour's exploits in speedway, motorcycling, midget cars, sprint cars etc are well chronicled worlwdie and in a favourable vein. Much is made in this country of her links to Oswald Moseley (or at least on the BSF ) - not so elsewhere. What do we know about the political opinions of the Eastern bloc riders who came to Britain in the 1950s and 1960s? Has anyone checked if any of these were card carrying communists? I suspect quite a few probably were. Are we going to run checks and then those who do not meet the needed 'democratic criteria' will be expunged from the history books. Do a google search for Fay Taylour - she deservedly gets full credit for her sporting achievements. They say politics and sport should not mix - obviously they do - at least in regard to the views of P1928. I would have no problem (nor should anyone else...) with any Soviet bloc riders being members of the CP... You seem to think it some way that equates in any fashion with this lady's odious Nazi sympathies. There is no comparison. Ms. Taylour supporting Hitler is indefensible; and I'm sorry but the personal conduct and views of an individual DOES impact on their sporting, academic or artistic achievements. Ask Gary Glitter if his entertainment career is now viewed as it was before his criminal offences.. Sorry, you probably don't know who Gary Glitter is!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted July 8, 2009 Report Share Posted July 8, 2009 It's a little late to start rewriting speedway history....... Fay Taylour's exploits in speedway, motorcycling, midget cars, sprint cars etc are well chronicled worlwdie and in a favourable vein. Much is made in this country of her links to Oswald Moseley (or at least on the BSF ) - not so elsewhere. Well it has been noted elsewhere that history was rewritten years ago........"airbrushing"......You just have to look at the notes from the files on her to see she was someone who held extremely odious political views.No way in my opinion does she deserve to be held up as a speedway heroine......"this war is terribly unfair" and having a hymn in which Hitlers name replaced gods!!!!!!!Clem Beckett,George Orwell and other who went to Spain to fight in the International Brigade deserve to be remembered as heroes.This woman and people sharing her views don't F.Taylour extremist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsloes 1928 nearly Posted July 8, 2009 Report Share Posted July 8, 2009 'Nuff said! These MI5 files show the full extent of this odious creature's views; and her internment proves what a danger she represented to her own country. Hard to conceive of worse behaviour. It is truly shocking that this terrible past was airbrushed out of her career history for so long. I hope now speedyguy you will concede that your defense of this nasty Nazi is entirely inappropriate... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sotonian Posted July 8, 2009 Report Share Posted July 8, 2009 In my view, on track exploits and achievements transcend any personal views however distasteful. I still play the odd Gary Glitter record too. Does that make me as bad as him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsloes 1928 nearly Posted July 8, 2009 Report Share Posted July 8, 2009 In my view, on track exploits and achievements transcend any personal views however distasteful. I still play the odd Gary Glitter record too. Does that make me as bad as him? I still play Gary Glitter record too... And the whole bloody world plays Michael Jackson records.. But nothing stops the fact that this Speedway lady rider was interned during a time of national crisis because she was considered a dangerous enemy of the state AND she worshipped apparently as a god, the most evil leader in World history. Just as Glitter's career will never be viewed without his PC World-revealed shame being discussed can't see how Ms. Taylour could expect her motorcycling and driving exploits not also to be viewed in the knowledge of her Nazi past.. Though speedyguy would choose that indeed to be the case.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedyguy Posted July 8, 2009 Report Share Posted July 8, 2009 (edited) I still play Gary Glitter record too... And the whole bloody world plays Michael Jackson records.. But nothing stops the fact that this Speedway lady rider was interned during a time of national crisis because she was considered a dangerous enemy of the state AND she worshipped apparently as a god, the most evil leader in World history. Just as Glitter's career will never be viewed without his PC World-revealed shame being discussed can't see how Ms. Taylour could expect her motorcycling and driving exploits not also to be viewed in the knowledge of her Nazi past.. Though speedyguy would choose that indeed to be the case.. Has anyone ever thought - or knows - if in post war years if Fay Taylour repented her right-wing views? Perhaps her biographer Dr Brian Belton may know the answer to this. Edited July 9, 2009 by speedyguy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsloes 1928 nearly Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 Has anyone ever thought - or knows - if in post war years if Fay Taylour repented a right-wing views? Perhaps her hiographer Dr Brian Belton may know the answer to this. Yeh, right...!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedyguy Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 Yeh, right...!!!! For once it would seem there's a question you don't know the answer to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedyguy Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 'Nuff said! These MI5 files show the full extent of this odious creature's views; and her internment proves what a danger she represented to her own country. Hard to conceive of worse behaviour. It is truly shocking that this terrible past was airbrushed out of her career history for so long. I hope now speedyguy you will concede that your defense of this nasty Nazi is entirely inappropriate... These files give a different view on Fay Taylour. Maybe you might care to browse them? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fay_Taylour http://midgetcarpanorama.proboards.com/ind...y&thread=16 http://thevintagent.blogspot.com/2006/12/f...mous-woman.html http://www.webbikeworld.com/books/fay-taylour.htm http://www.historicspeedway.co.nz/Fay%20Taylour.htm http://archives.tcm.ie/businesspost/2006/0.../story12162.asp http://www.flickr.com/photos/brizzlebornandbred/2060222379/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsloes 1928 nearly Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 No thanks. I'm also not interested in hearing that Nick Griffin is nice to his old mum... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedyguy Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 No thanks. I'm also not interested in hearing that Nick Griffin is nice to his old mum... What a pathetic response. You must get back to rewriting speedway history! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsloes 1928 nearly Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 What a pathetic response. You must get back to rewriting speedway history! How is anyone rewriting Speedway history..! What YOU want to do is blank out that this rider was a Nazi and went to prison for being one. The only person seeking to pervert the truth here is you... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norbold Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 (edited) These files give a different view on Fay Taylour. Maybe you might care to browse them? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fay_Taylour From wikipedia: "But there was a dark side to her life. In the late 1930s,she became enamoured of the extreme right-wing political beliefs of Sir Oswald Mosley, the British fascist leader. Mosley and his second wife, Diana Mitford Guinness,were interned in Britain between 1940 and 1943, as a danger to the state, and Taylour suffered a similar fate. Amazingly, when she resumed her racing career after the war, this unsavoury episode was airbrushed out of all her publicity. The file on her in the Alexandra College library has many cuttings about her from all over the world, but nowhere is there a mention of the trouble that her extreme right-wing political beliefs got her into." I'm not sure how you think that will change Parsloes' view...? As for the other websites you mention they seem to confirm what Wikipedia says and that her unsavoury Nazi past has been airbrushed from history apart from this one: http://archives.tcm.ie/businesspost/2006/0.../story12162.asp which doesn't say anything at all. Edited July 9, 2009 by norbold Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedyguy Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 From wikipedia: "But there was a dark side to her life. In the late 1930s,she became enamoured of the extreme right-wing political beliefs of Sir Oswald Mosley, the British fascist leader. Mosley and his second wife, Diana Mitford Guinness,were interned in Britain between 1940 and 1943, as a danger to the state, and Taylour suffered a similar fate. Amazingly, when she resumed her racing career after the war, this unsavoury episode was airbrushed out of all her publicity. The file on her in the Alexandra College library has many cuttings about her from all over the world, but nowhere is there a mention of the trouble that her extreme right-wing political beliefs got her into." I'm not sure how you think that will change Parsloes' view...? As for the other websites you mention they seem to confirm what Wikipedia says and that her unsavoury Nazi past has been airbrushed from history apart from this one: http://archives.tcm.ie/businesspost/2006/0.../story12162.asp which doesn't say anything at all. In the war years I remember many people were interned for their right-wing views. Two of them were reasonable neighbours to my home in south London - they were both Italians. One was the local barber, the other was an ice cream salesman. There was hysteria in rounding up people then - many without need. They were among them. They later came back and were welcomed. Fay Taylor knew Oswald Moseley and may have joined his party. In iternment, could it not have been possible that her actions may have been to wind-up her jailers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norbold Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 In the war years I remember many people were interned for their right-wing views. Two of them were reasonable neighbours to my home in south London - they were both Italians. One was the local barber, the other was an ice cream salesman. There was hysteria in rounding up people then - many without need. They were among them. They later came back and were welcomed. Fay Taylor knew Oswald Moseley and may have joined his party. In iternment, could it not have been possible that her actions may have been to wind-up her jailers? You may be right. I was merely pointing out that none of the websites you referred Parsloes too advanced your argument at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedyguy Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 (edited) You may be right. I was merely pointing out that none of the websites you referred Parsloes too advanced your argument at all. There's a great difference between being an active Nazi - which nowhere is there evidence to support that Taylour was - rather than being a borderline member of Oswald Moseley's pre-war movement. The latter had Taylour's involvement - she made stupid comments (don't we all at times?) but was hardly in a category to place her on trial at Nuremberg? Apart from that, she was also at the Cable Street riots in 1936 (as were many misguided young people at that time). Much is also made of the fact her right-wing views were airbrushed out of her publicity. By whom? It must have been in the public domain. Too much conspiracy surrounds this opinion. To keep advancing airbrushing tends to indicate a massive conspiracy by reserachers - who are they and what motive could they have for doing this? Hard facts are that people who knew Fay Taylour pre-war did not shun her post-war. Her internment must have been known to them, people like Crystal Palace and New Cross promoter Fred Mockford. Yet when he staged a 20 years of speedway anniversary meeting (after the war years) at New Cross in 1948, Fay Taylour was a guest of honour. Another who knew who both pre and post-war links was Alvin 'Spike' Rhiando the midget car and big circuit race car driver (aka AJ Franchetti he mystery American speedway rider at Stamord Bridge in 1932). He knew and was professionally associated with Fay Taylur from around 1931 until his own death in (I think) the eraly 1960s. All her other pre-war contacts also seem to have continued dealings with Fay after the war. Post-war she was welcomed back to USA, Australia, New Zealand and South Africa where she had also visited in the 1930s. Were they (and their immigration departments) all ignorant of her political opinions? I doubt it, but they obviously regarded it all as being very minor stuff to have allowed her back into their countries. My view is that the passage of time has turned Fay Taylour's right-wing views into a bigger monster than is needed. I once attended commuist party meetings (in the audience not as a member). Does that make me an advocate of Stalinist policies? The same could apply to Taylour in regard to Moseley. The passage of time is causing us to judge Fay Taylour on the basis of her internment in the 1940s, yet many outspoken Irish people suffered a similar fate (if they came from Eire aka Irish Republic) as Taylour did - none of us knew her personally she we find ourselves qualified to make judgments (as may I am doing). The thread's original topic, Clem Beckett as a hero because he joined and fought and died with the International Brigade in Spain in 1937. Yet this was an extremely left-wing group dedicated to supporting a Spanish Republican government - which sold its gold reserves to the Soviet Union - was at the time running amok with political and financial corruption and anxious to establish a communist (or similar) government in Spain. That is why the Franco-led Spanish army fought against them. The Falange (Spain's fascist party) jumped on the Franco band-wagon. Clem Beckett is hardly a political hero - he seems to have been sadly mixed up in the political rivalries of the 1930s as Taylour was at the other political extreme. The fact that he was a speedway rider makes him a good focal point for publicising left-wing involvement in the Spanish Civil War. Edited July 9, 2009 by speedyguy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsloes 1928 nearly Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 In the war years I remember many people were interned for their right-wing views. Two of them were reasonable neighbours to my home in south London - they were both Italians. One was the local barber, the other was an ice cream salesman. There was hysteria in rounding up people then - many without need. They were among them. They later came back and were welcomed. Come on, foreign nationals of a country at which we were at war (in this case Italians...) may find themselves relatively innocently implicated and therefore interned - that's just a fact of war. But Taylour was Irish and she was interned ONLY because of her treasonous views and associations. I am at a loss as to why you want to defend her for this. There's a great difference between being an active Nazi - which nowhere is there evidence to support that Taylour was - rather than being a borderline member of Oswald Moseley's pre-war movement. The latter had Taylour's involvement - she made stupid comments (don't we all at times?) but was hardly in a category to place her on trial at Nuremberg? Apart from that, she was also at the Cable Street riots in 1936 (as were many misguided young people at that time). She WAS an active Nazi...: mercifully being 'active' in this country did not give her the abiklity to do what her beloved Hitler was doing in Germany but I note you concede that she did join in throwing bricks through Jewish buisnesses in Stepney so she was well on the way... And sorry no, describing Hitler as a God is not a "stupid comment (we all make at times)" it is something far more serious than that.. At the Battle of Cable St., Moseley's pack of brown shirts were seen off by an overwhelming majority of decent East End folk. I don't call the scum who set out that day to attack Jews, "misguided" I call them Nazis and internment was the best place for them. Shame they didn't throw away the key... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedyguy Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 (edited) Come on, foreign nationals of a country at which we were at war (in this case Italians...) may find themselves relatively innocently implicated and therefore interned - that's just a fact of war. But Taylour was Irish and she was interned ONLY because of her treasonous views and associations. I am at a loss as to why you want to defend her for this. She WAS an active Nazi...: mercifully being 'active' in this country did not give her the abiklity to do what her beloved Hitler was doing in Germany but I note you concede that she did join in throwing bricks through Jewish buisnesses in Stepney so she was well on the way... And sorry no, describing Hitler as a God is not a "stupid comment (we all make at times)" it is something far more serious than that.. At the Battle of Cable St., Moseley's pack of brown shirts were seen off by an overwhelming majority of decent East End folk. I don't call the scum who set out that day to attack Jews, "misguided" I call them Nazis and internment was the best place for them. Shame they didn't throw away the key... I did not say that Fay Taylour was throwing bricks. She was probably only there as a spectator. Do you now otherwise - I don't either, but that's what I think happened. After all she was a woman. As they say "you've really got your kickers in a twist (not for the first time on any subject! ) over Fay Taylour. Tell me this, why did so many who knew Fay Taylour pre-war, who must have known about her internment, still respect and deal with her after WW2? Edited July 9, 2009 by speedyguy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 (edited) Tell me this, why did so many who knew Fay Taylour pre-war, who must have known about her internment, still respect and deal with her after WW2? We can't say.Neither can we say what she did or did not do at Cable Street.Not sure how many times she was interviewed in later years.Maybe you know of an interview where these questions along with whether she changed her views on Nazi Germany and Hitler after the war and why she had a hoard of Hitler memorabilia in her house were put to her? Would be interested to know just what she loved about Nazi Germany I'd also like to know if Clem had "No Pasarán" sewn on the back of his leathers Edited July 9, 2009 by iris123 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedyguy Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 (edited) We can't say.Neither can we say what she did or did not do at Cable Street.Not sure how many times she was interviewed in later years.Maybe you know of an interview where these questions along with whether she changed her views on Nazi Germany and Hitler after the war and why she had a hoard of Hitler memorabilia in her house were put to her? Would be interested to know just what she loved about Nazi Germany I'd also like to know if Clem had "No Pasáran" sewn on the back of his leathers "No Pasáran". That was the famous last words from the communists at Madrid - before it happened and the Spanish army entered the city. Why did so many people still know and respect her after the war? And was Clem Beckett a communist or communist sympathiser? If he was - and it's most likely as the International Brigade was communist inspired - he would appear to be no different to Fay Taylour - just at the opposite end of the political spectrum. Edited July 9, 2009 by speedyguy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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