Morning Star

[falcon]

Interesting piece in the paper this morning about Clem Beckett,a speedway rider who was killed in the Spanish civil war fighting with the International Brigade,and formed the first speedway riders union.

[iris123]

Clem Beckett

[falcon]

Clem Beckett

 

Thats the one,thanks.

[Ian]

The "Morning Star" could always be relied upon to provide information which was never available in the mainstream press. However, their article on Clem Beckett reveals a little-known technical fact about pre-war speedway, and one of which I must admit to having been unaware.

 

"Clem Beckett loved the dirty growl of his bike's engine, the smell of diesel and hot metal filling his nostrils."

 

So there we have it: a diesel-engined speedway bike back in the 1930s. I wonder why it never caught on? The "Morning Star" being what it is, I suspect that if we wait another fifty years or so they'll be proclaiming that some well-known rider from the early 1980s actually rode a coal-fired bike in support of the miners' strike.

 

It's an interesting story about Clem Beckett though. Does anyone know whether he ever rode against Flying Fay, the Fanatical Fascist?

Edited July 1, 2009 by Ian

[norbold]

It's an interesting story about Clem Beckett though. Does anyone know whether he ever rode against Flying Fay, the Fanatical Fascist?

Although I knew about both Clem Beckett and Fay Taylour's politics, that thought hadn't occurred to me, Ian. I must look that up.

[speedyguy]

The "Morning Star" could always be relied upon to provide information which was never available in the mainstream press. However, their article on Clem Beckett reveals a little-known technical fact about pre-war speedway, and one of which I must admit to having been unaware.

 

"Clem Beckett loved the dirty growl of his bike's engine, the smell of diesel and hot metal filling his nostrils."

 

So there we have it: a diesel-engined speedway bike back in the 1930s. I wonder why it never caught on? The "Morning Star" being what it is, I suspect that if we wait another fifty years or so they'll be proclaiming that some well-known rider from the early 1980s actually rode a coal-fired bike in support of the miners' strike.

 

It's an interesting story about Clem Beckett though. Does anyone know whether he ever rode against Flying Fay, the Fanatical Fascist?

 

 

I regard that as an uncalled for reference to Fay Taylour. She undoubtedly had some extreme right-wing views but I am certain never indulged them to the extremes used by fascists in Italy and Germany (on the assumption Nazism and Fascism are identical philosophies).

 

I have read the item on Clem Beckett - it's rather colourful to say the least. The 'democratic' side he fought for in Spain was in

fact communist in its outlook. It was backed with arms, advisers and others by the Soviet Union (aka Russia). Spain's gold reserves were paid over to the Soviet Union at that time for the arms etc supplied to them.

 

Germany and Italy backed Franco and his army to prevent a Soviet-style republic being established in Spain. Had Franco been defeated, one doesn't like to think what problems a communist Spain could have caused in the post-war cold war years. Russian bases in the Mediterranean for example.

[speedyguy]

The "Morning Star" could always be relied upon to provide information which was never available in the mainstream press. However, their article on Clem Beckett reveals a little-known technical fact about pre-war speedway, and one of which I must admit to having been unaware.

 

"Clem Beckett loved the dirty growl of his bike's engine, the smell of diesel and hot metal filling his nostrils."

 

So there we have it: a diesel-engined speedway bike back in the 1930s. I wonder why it never caught on? The "Morning Star" being what it is, I suspect that if we wait another fifty years or so they'll be proclaiming that some well-known rider from the early 1980s actually rode a coal-fired bike in support of the miners' strike.

 

It's an interesting story about Clem Beckett though. Does anyone know whether he ever rode against Flying Fay, the Fanatical Fascist?

 

 

'the smell of diesel and hot metal filling his nostrils' is sheer nonsense. Written by somebody who obviously knows nothing about speedway. Who can explain 'hot metal filling his nostrils' and there has never been a diesel engined speedway bike.

[Ian]

[/color]

 

Germany and Italy backed Franco and his army to prevent a Soviet-style republic being established in Spain. Had Franco been defeated, one doesn't like to think what problems a communist Spain could have caused in the post-war cold war years. Russian bases in the Mediterranean for example.

 

If we're going to look at history then let's at least make some attempt to interpret it sensibly.

 

The eastern side of the Adriatic became communist after the war when the then Yugoslavia incorporated all of the shore from the Italian border to the Albanian one. The Adriatic is nothing more than an arm of the Mediterranean, and its total shoreline is vast because of the number of Adriatic islands. Perhaps you could let us know what dreadful problems that caused?

 

Germany may have had all sorts of reasons for backing Franco, but their main input to Spanish domestic politics was the bombing of Guernica by the Luftwaffe. This was nothing other than a racist attack on a city whose population was mainly Basque (which I would imagine to be non-Aryan, in Hitler's volatile imagination). In any case, would a German puppet Spain have been in some way preferable to a communist one?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[speedyguy]

If we're going to look at history then let's at least make some attempt to interpret it sensibly.

 

The eastern side of the Adriatic became communist after the war when the then Yugoslavia incorporated all of the shore from the Italian border to the Albanian one. The Adriatic is nothing more than an arm of the Mediterranean, and its total shoreline is vast because of the number of Adriatic islands. Perhaps you could let us know what dreadful problems that caused?

 

Germany may have had all sorts of reasons for backing Franco, but their main input to Spanish domestic politics was the bombing of Guernica by the Luftwaffe. This was nothing other than a racist attack on a city whose population was mainly Basque (which I would imagine to be non-Aryan, in Hitler's volatile imagination). In any case, would a German puppet Spain have been in some way preferable to a communist one?

 

 

Spain never became a German puppet state. It remained neutral throughout WW2 - and there were organised escape routes across Spain from occupied to Gibraltar which the Spanish police "seemed not to notice."

Franco resisted several efforts by Germany/Italy to enter WW2. The nearest was to send the Blue Division to fight in Russia on the German side - I suppose something similar to the International Brigade?

In regard to Spain as a communist state - they are on the western side of the Med and would have been communist without any neighbours. On the other hand, the Adriatic communist states were backed landwise by other communist states. A Spain in communist isolation with possible Soviet bases there would have been a major problem for NATO.

[Ian]

Spain never became a German puppet state. It remained neutral throughout WW2 - and there were organised escape routes across Spain from occupied to Gibraltar which the Spanish police "seemed not to notice."

Franco resisted several efforts by Germany/Italy to enter WW2. The nearest was to send the Blue Division to fight in Russia on the German side - I suppose something similar to the International Brigade?

In regard to Spain as a communist state - they are on the western side of the Med and would have been communist without any neighbours. On the other hand, the Adriatic communist states were backed landwise by other communist states. A Spain in communist isolation with possible Soviet bases there would have been a major problem for NATO.

 

Correct. And it never became a communist state either. I was responding to your hypothesis with another hypthesis.

 

I'm still waiting to hear what problems we faced as a result of Yugoslavian communism. My recollect is that many Brits used to go there on holiday, so it can't have been that much of a threat.

 

 

[speedyguy]

Correct. And it never became a communist state either. I was responding to your hypothesis with another hypthesis.

 

I'm still waiting to hear what problems we faced as a result of Yugoslavian communism. My recollect is that many Brits used to go there on holiday, so it can't have been that much of a threat.

 

 

That's because Marshal Tito practiced a less tyrannical brand of communism, probably a protoype of modern China rather than hardline Moscow.

 

Sadly, we're will off course now in the Clem Beckett v Fay Taylour SPEEDWAY debate. My guess is that they never raced against each other.

Beckett was too busy with his diesel engine and smalling burning metal (whatever that all means).

[Ian]

That's because Marshal Tito practiced a less tyrannical brand of communism, probably a protoype of modern China rather than hardline Moscow.

 

Sadly, we're will off course now in the Clem Beckett v Fay Taylour SPEEDWAY debate. My guess is that they never raced against each other.

Beckett was too busy with his diesel engine and smalling burning metal (whatever that all means).

 

One thing's for sure. A "less tyrannical brand" of Nazism wasn't practised anywhere.

 

 

[speedyguy]

Sadly, we're will off course now in the Clem Beckett v Fay Taylour SPEEDWAY debate. My guess is that they never raced against each other.

Beckett was too busy with his diesel engine and smelling burning metal (whatever that all means).

 

Edited July 5, 2009 by speedyguy

[Ron Butler]

Interesting piece in the paper this morning about Clem Beckett,a speedway rider who was killed in the Spanish civil war fighting with the International Brigade,and formed the first speedway riders union.

 

 

 

The "Morning Star" could always be relied upon to provide information which was never available in the mainstream press. However, their article on Clem Beckett reveals a little-known technical fact about pre-war speedway, and one of which I must admit to having been unaware.

 

"Clem Beckett loved the dirty growl of his bike's engine, the smell of diesel and hot metal filling his nostrils."

 

So there we have it: a diesel-engined speedway bike back in the 1930s. I wonder why it never caught on? The "Morning Star" being what it is, I suspect that if we wait another fifty years or so they'll be proclaiming that some well-known rider from the early 1980s actually rode a coal-fired bike in support of the miners' strike.

 

It's an interesting story about Clem Beckett though. Does anyone know whether he ever rode against Flying Fay, the Fanatical Fascist?

 

 

 

Both Clem Beckett and Fay Taylour were legends as speedway riders in their era. Are their political views of any consequence when considering them in relation to 'Speedway History - Years Gone By? I feel they're not.

 

 

 

 

[iris123]

Well i certainly feel that someone holding extreme right wing views as Fay Taylour did is enough to negate anything she ever done on a speedway track.If someone was extreme enough to come to the government's attention,then she shouldn't be held up as some sort of heroine

[speedyguy]

Well i certainly feel that someone holding extreme right wing views as Fay Taylour did is enough to negate anything she ever done on a speedway track.If someone was extreme enough to come to the government's attention,then she shouldn't be held up as some sort of heroine

 

 

Fay Taylour's speedway, midget car and sprint car racing exploits have been favourably covered over many years worldwide. Her political views have in no way detracted from her feats on the track. Nor should they IMO. She may have been wrong with her political opinions but she was hardly a Gestapo or SS officer or a prison camp guard!

[iris123]

Fay Taylour's speedway, midget car and sprint car racing exploits have been favourably covered over many years worldwide. Her political views have in no way detracted from her feats on the track. Nor should they IMO. She may have been wrong with her political opinions but she was hardly a Gestapo or SS officer or a prison camp guard!

I somehow think you would have a different opinion if she was a muslim extremist

[speedyguy]

I somehow think you would have a different opinion if she was a muslim extremist

 

Fay Taylour was "a darling girl from the emerald isle..."

[Parsloes 1928 nearly]

Fay Taylour's speedway, midget car and sprint car racing exploits have been favourably covered over many years worldwide. Her political views have in no way detracted from her feats on the track. Nor should they IMO. She may have been wrong with her political opinions but she was hardly a Gestapo or SS officer or a prison camp guard!

 

You're off the mark here speedyguy. She openly supported Nazism and so yes she was as bad as the concentration camp guards.. Indeed worse as many of them were German soldiers with effectively no choice as to what they were ordered to do. For someone like her, Irish or British (not sure which..) to expound such hateful and treasonous views most certainly negates any of her racing exploits. IMHO, her name should be consigned to the dustbin where such odious people with far right views all belong...

[speedyguy]

You're off the mark here speedyguy. She openly supported Nazism and so yes she was as bad as the concentration camp guards.. Indeed worse as many of them were German soldiers with effectively no choice as to what they were ordered to do. For someone like her, Irish or British (not sure which..) to expound such hateful and treasonous views most certainly negates any of her racing exploits. IMHO, her name should be consigned to the dustbin where such odious people with far right views all belong...

 

 

It's a little late to start rewriting speedway history. Fay Taylour's exploits in speedway, motorcycling, midget cars, sprint cars etc are well chronicled worlwdie and in a favourable vein. Much is made in this country of her links to Oswald Moseley (or at least on the BSF ) - not so elsewhere.

 

What do we know about the political opinions of the Eastern bloc riders who came to Britain in the 1950s and 1960s? Has anyone checked if any of these were card carrying communists? I suspect quite a few probably were. Are we going to run checks and then those who do not meet the needed 'democratic criteria' will be expunged from the history books.

 

Do a google search for Fay Taylour - she deservedly gets full credit for her sporting achievements. They say politics and sport should not mix - obviously they do - at least in regard to the views of P1928.

 

There's an article about Fay Taylour here -

 

http://midgetcarpanorama.proboards.com/ind...y&thread=16

Edited July 8, 2009 by speedyguy