ajh Posted July 11, 2009 Report Share Posted July 11, 2009 Top Post Spook. Well Said Totally agree. I honestly don't know if people are just being shortsighted deliberately or just can't get it There is a good interview with Rob Lyon on the EDP website which hopefully might give a few a "lights on" moment. It can be found here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wotnoaj Posted July 11, 2009 Report Share Posted July 11, 2009 I dont think that people are necessarily 'not getting it', I just think that not everyone agrees with RL's strategy. They are entitled to do so. I will say that I wish the lads all the best and hope for a good entertaining, safe World Cup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted July 11, 2009 Report Share Posted July 11, 2009 (edited) I just dont understand what it is that people dont 'get' about this we dont have a 'Beckham' ..... Nicholls and Rico couldnt be described in any shape or form as 'Beckham' ...... if they were Danish or Polish they would be Kasprzak or Walasek....... in the squad but not a definite...... they certainly arent David Gollob or Tomasz Beckham Rob Lyon is not calling them 'has beens' ..... he is not saying that's it with them he is saying quite correctly that our team has not been of the standard required to win something and to do something about that it means the standard regressing slightly while at the same time the youngsters are brought on more quickly........... keep them in and nothing changes...... make a decision like this and something might change for the better I wonder just how many of those in this thread moaning about/lamenting the decision have also had a moan about the last couple of world cup campaigns............... and I wonder how many have realistically compared the 'big 5 teams' and realised that in actual fact we either already have or are in the process of reaching the stage where there are only 4 big teams and GB are now starting to fight with Russia, Finland, Germany, Slovenia etc on a different level... and that is no slur on them because even more worryingly in the grand scheme of things they are on the up The most encouraging thing is that we are now starting to finally get some high profile figures within the sport (just in the last few weeks Mark Loram, Meridian Lifts, Simon Stead, Rob Lyon) stating that work and interest in the brits is long overdue. The more this pressure builds the more it is likely that we will get some actual positive and effective actions rather than some very transparently half baked attempts to fool everyone into thinking that a training day is enough ........... training from the right people and financial backing are one side of it but the most important thing that needs changing is that British riders have to become the number one priority again... currently they are last ............... this can only be attained by the promoters making sure that no assessed average is less than 8 without bonus points in the PL at first and then looking to continue that in the EL later on when the inevitable increase of brits come through edit: I understand that a group of sorts has been setup to help the youngsters but as with most things like this little seems to be happening....at least that is being publicised anyway..................... is it not time for the sake of our leagues and general standard that a real force of a group is put together to at least report back to the BSPA with some ideas of how things could progress and the short term knock on effects at least be stomached by the promoters...................... Len Silver Peter Oakes and Neil Machin should automatically represent considering the commitment they have had to British riders over time...... I would also suggest a rider such as Loramski to give a different perspective...... and also a promoter from a Scottish club to bring the perspective of those clubs feeling 'remote' ........................... maybe the issues are more deep rooted than they appear but to find that out some effort has to be made to start with and the right intentions from the BSPA backing it Talk about going off the subject maybe there is a problem with British speedway but thats not going to change by picking riders who are not good enough for the team . These riders have plenty of chances to show they are good enough in the league etc and if they are give them a chance on merit rather than handing it on a plate when they have not earned the right . Never seen such a negtive attitude from a sporting team 'we are going to win so lets not pick are strongest side' Picking King in front of Rico or Scot for that matter serves no purpose at all as he is not as good as them now and won't be as good as them ever . If Mr Lyon cares so much about the uk youngsters why don't he tell the Chapmans to start picking some at Kings Lynn now instead instead of Ward ,Smith ect So Much for his princibles . The only reason i can see why he is putting this side out ifs to cover his back so if they get crushed he can say in ten years times we will benafit from this . Edited July 11, 2009 by orion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook Posted July 11, 2009 Report Share Posted July 11, 2009 They are entitled to do so. lol yes of course they are Pearcey.... the trouble is that the majority arent backing it up with sound reasoning as to why this is a bad decision.... how just continuing the way we have been for x amount of years (ie the slowly deteriorating approach) is the way to go........... Talk about going off the subject sorry Orion but you and me have already gone around in circles several times and you are saying nothing different to before so i'll concentrate on your opening statement no I think i'm bang on the subject...... When signing Justin Sedgeman as an asset before he had even turned a wheel for them do you think Swindon were thinking about the standard of British riders and their responsibilities as a club?.... or do you think they were thinking about a free asset in this current Aussie gold rush?? The bottom line of all of this is that GB lineup 1) or 2) is not good enough and we are falling well behind the other top nations now...... and it is easy to see why when we have promoters who are prioritising assets and assessed averages..... remind me why should EL clubs be able to 'reserve' 2 free assets without doing any of the hard work at grass roots level? and apart from those at Wolves how many of these are actually British? I have no issue with overseas riders at all but I do have a huge issue with the promoters putting our riders last and giving strong backing and opportunity to riders who are consequently coming over to our leagues 2 or 3 years too early and filling up places in our grass roots system....... I do have issues with promoters who deliberately set assessed averages at a figure which will produce more riders who will increase on them than take a drop.......... and I do have issues with promoters who actually start showing off on this forum about an overseas rider who has put 5 and a half average points on his assessed average........ good luck to that rider but the point i'm making is that the promoter is oblivious to any possible fopar he is making and why To start putting this right the problem has to be acknowledged and accepted by all the key players involved...... Rob Lyon has done it but the promoters need to do it as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted July 11, 2009 Report Share Posted July 11, 2009 (edited) lol yes of course they are Pearcey.... the trouble is that the majority arent backing it up with sound reasoning as to why this is a bad decision.... how just continuing the way we have been for x amount of years (ie the slowly deteriorating approach) is the way to go........... sorry Orion but you and me have already gone around in circles several times and you are saying nothing different to before so i'll concentrate on your opening statement no I think i'm bang on the subject...... When signing Justin Sedgeman as an asset before he had even turned a wheel for them do you think Swindon were thinking about the standard of British riders and their responsibilities as a club?.... or do you think they were thinking about a free asset in this current Aussie gold rush?? The bottom line of all of this is that GB lineup 1) or 2) is not good enough and we are falling well behind the other top nations now...... and it is easy to see why when we have promoters who are prioritising assets and assessed averages..... remind me why should EL clubs be able to 'reserve' 2 free assets without doing any of the hard work at grass roots level? and apart from those at Wolves how many of these are actually British? I have no issue with overseas riders at all but I do have a huge issue with the promoters putting our riders last and giving strong backing and opportunity to riders who are consequently coming over to our leagues 2 or 3 years too early and filling up places in our grass roots system....... I do have issues with promoters who deliberately set assessed averages at a figure which will produce more riders who will increase on them than take a drop.......... and I do have issues with promoters who actually start showing off on this forum about an overseas rider who has put 5 and a half average points on his assessed average........ good luck to that rider but the point i'm making is that the promoter is oblivious to any possible fopar he is making and why To start putting this right the problem has to be acknowledged and accepted by all the key players involved...... Rob Lyon has done it but the promoters need to do it as well As i said i think your on the wrong topic ....i still trying to understand what picking no hopers in a world cup team has got anythink to with any of your above points . Rob Lyon you say cares about the state of uk speedway and thinks we should go with young riders ? from what ive seen he's at a club that never pushes hardly any british young riders and would rather go with the aussie gold rush as you put it ....if Lyon got any morals surely he would leave the club if he thinks thats what wrong with speedway in the uk . A classic case of double standards . Edited July 11, 2009 by orion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagpuss Posted July 11, 2009 Report Share Posted July 11, 2009 Accept your point about Lynn's PL team but this year has seen the emergence of a Lynn NL side (to replace a CL club who had resided at Lynn for several years) with two 15 year olds at reserve and two 19 year olds as second strings. And I would like to know who the 'no hopers' are as you put it.....Richardson for King is the only swap that many would make. Sounds like the guy is being panned for one debatable selection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekker Posted July 11, 2009 Report Share Posted July 11, 2009 It irrelevant who ever is GB team manager or who he picks as far as bringing talent on, the whole junior setup is a shambles with few tracks and no national system to make sure the right kids get the help they need. Look at the NL tests as an example with all the teams being diced and sliced to suit the home promoters. At the moment its just a lottery as to who has the parents with deepest pockets as to whether GB produces any talent or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook Posted July 11, 2009 Report Share Posted July 11, 2009 (edited) As i said i think your on the wrong topic ....i still trying to understand what picking no hopers in a world cup team has got anythink to with any of your above points . Rob Lyon you say cares about the state of uk speedway and thinks we should go with young riders ? from what ive seen he's at a club that never pushes hardly any british young riders and would rather go with the aussie gold rush as you put it ....if Lyon got any morals surely he would leave the club if he thinks thats what wrong with speedway in the uk . A classic case of double standards . no once again I am bang on topic.... this is about the standard of our best team..... our best team in terms of potential.... and subsequently the general volume and quality of our riders and why they are at that volume and level of quality.... I am certain that you can suggest to the mods that some topic splitting needs to take place if it is that important to you that you ignore the points.... but it wont change the fact that the promoters need to get their act sorted on this as well as RL "no hopers" .... I thought your issue was just with Danny King and the fact that Roscoe isnt manager...... I didnt realise that in your mind there is more than one 'no hoper' ...... who would that be then? and please Orion lets get real now ... this argument about team manager's and the nationalities of the club riders they manage was a non starter in Middlo's time ..... let alone now......................... by saying such a thing you are deciding you are blind to the difference between a promoter and a manager employed by that promoter .... Edited July 11, 2009 by spook Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted July 11, 2009 Report Share Posted July 11, 2009 no once again I am bang on topic.... this is about the standard of our best team..... our best team in terms of potential.... and subsequently the general volume and quality of our riders and why they are at that volume and level of quality.... I am certain that you can suggest to the mods that some topic splitting needs to take place if it is that important to you that you ignore the points.... but it wont change the fact that the promoters need to get their act sorted on this as well as RL "no hopers" .... I thought your issue was just with Danny King and the fact that Roscoe isnt manager...... I didnt realise that in your mind there is more than one 'no hoper' ...... who would that be then? and please Orion lets get real now ... this argument about team manager's and the nationalities of the club riders they manage was a non starter in Middlo's time ..... let alone now......................... by saying such a thing you are deciding you are blind to the difference between a promoter and a manager employed by that promoter .... Nothing to do with a promoter and a tm ...Lyon has set his stall out to say that Gb must bring on the youth etc and how we must change the way speedway is run in he uk etc etc and has pick his side based on that . If he's going to say that and be in charge of Team Gb then he must stick to it ...but he willing to go along with a club that breeds import after import the things you said you hated ..Middlo always pick the best side he could for team gb as Poole speedway always try to do at club level no double stadards there . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook Posted July 11, 2009 Report Share Posted July 11, 2009 oh do me a favour ..... his attitude as club manager should be far different to his attitude as national manager while the BSPA have the rules they do I felt Middlo was a good manager but Poole have one of the worst records in the modern era for investing in Brits......... did Middlo purchase and sign the riders? No of course not .............. did he have a say? ... maybe but heres the thing the BSPA set the rules and the clubs look for the best way to work within those rules........... I am fully saying that the promoters need to take responsibility for this situation and to do the best things to resolve it..... or the situation continues where the Chapmans, Fords, & Pratchetts continue their team building policies and their managers work with what they are given and of course if we are to take seriously any part of your argument here Orion can we assume that you are suggesting John Sampford should be the GB team manager? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted July 11, 2009 Report Share Posted July 11, 2009 oh do me a favour ..... his attitude as club manager should be far different to his attitude as national manager while the BSPA have the rules they do You mean turn a blind eye ? he's not willing to practice what he preaches at grass roots level ...his words on how we should helping and pushing young brits will always be empty at long as he works with and under a club that does anythink but . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook Posted July 11, 2009 Report Share Posted July 11, 2009 am I in some kind of alternate universe here or something? are you really trying to pretend not to know how things work at club level and who is really in charge at clubs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frigbo Posted July 11, 2009 Report Share Posted July 11, 2009 (edited) am I in some kind of alternate universe here or something? are you really trying to pretend not to know how things work at club level and who is really in charge at clubs? I agree with Orion here. If Mr Lyon believes his principles he would divorce himself from the team building policies of KL. He's preaching one thing but actually practicing something completely different. Edited July 11, 2009 by frigbo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colincooke Posted July 11, 2009 Report Share Posted July 11, 2009 (edited) Well Orion there we're a team of apparent "no hopers" tonight that have won a place in the world cup final. How did they do it? Simply by being a team & taking inspiration from their star rider. So you see it is possible, & i certainly hope The Brits we're watching & taking heart. Edited July 11, 2009 by colincooke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook Posted July 11, 2009 Report Share Posted July 11, 2009 I agree with Orion here. If Mr Lyon believes his principles he would divorce himself from the team building policies of KL. He's preaching one thing but actually practicing something completely different. he is practicing exactly the team going out on Monday...... did you expect him to try to pick Topinka or Ward? Or are we back in the real world yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frigbo Posted July 11, 2009 Report Share Posted July 11, 2009 he is practicing exactly the team going out on Monday...... did you expect him to try to pick Topinka or Ward? Or are we back in the real world yet? Don't be obtuse. His mantra is that young British riders should be given opportunities. Kl's policy flies in the face of that. Jan Graversen and Kozza Smith at 6 and 7 speaks volumes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nazza Posted July 11, 2009 Report Share Posted July 11, 2009 Well Orion there we're a team of apparent "no hopers" tonight that have won a place in the world cup final. How did they do it? Simply by being a team & taking inspiration from their star rider. So you see it is possible, & i certainly hope The Brits we're watching & taking heart. There lies the problem What star rider? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frigbo Posted July 11, 2009 Report Share Posted July 11, 2009 There lies the problem What star rider? He'll be watching from the sidelines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritPete Posted July 11, 2009 Report Share Posted July 11, 2009 As far as I'm concerned it is sheer madness to leave out our best rider. Why take the chance? After reading the "Backtrack" magazine just now, maybe there is another reason for this crazy team selection. John Berry states that rumour has it that there has been a "major" falling out between two of Englands most senior riders. Make of that what you will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frigbo Posted July 11, 2009 Report Share Posted July 11, 2009 I assume that is the Harris and Nicholls situation BP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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