Scotland's Top 20

[speedyguy]

An interesting debate is taking place on

 

http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/oldtimespeedway

 

in regard to Scotland's Top 20 riders in the post-war era.

[BOBBATH]

Hi speedyguy-looked at that site with interest-no question in my mind that Ken McKinlay was #1- I would have put Jimmy McMillan #2, and George Hunter #3. As regards Tommy Miller-surely he did ride in Div 1 1957 when the NL 1 and NL 2 combined. I am interested in Tommy-as you say he shot to the top like a meteor-but than went down the same way.Never made the World Final-anyone out there know what happened and why he didn't stay at the top. I think he must have passed away by now but what a rider!! Is there anyone out in forumland who saw TM ride???

[speedyguy]

Hi speedyguy-looked at that site with interest-no question in my mind that Ken McKinlay was #1- I would have put Jimmy McMillan #2, and George Hunter #3. As regards Tommy Miller-surely he did ride in Div 1 1957 when the NL 1 and NL 2 combined. I am interested in Tommy-as you say he shot to the top like a meteor-but than went down the same way.Never made the World Final-anyone out there know what happened and why he didn't stay at the top. I think he must have passed away by now but what a rider!! Is there anyone out in forumland who saw TM ride???

 

 

Yes, I seem to remember Tommy Miller in NL1. Wasn't he with Coventry. I'll check that later. The debate on

 

http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/oldtimespeedway

 

has certainly thrown up several interesting names. Doesn't Eric Liddell deserve a better rating than he's been given by several of its Posters?

Edited June 22, 2009 by speedyguy

[mervjankefanclub]

Hi speedyguy-looked at that site with interest-no question in my mind that Ken McKinlay was #1- I would have put Jimmy McMillan #2, and George Hunter #3. As regards Tommy Miller-surely he did ride in Div 1 1957 when the NL 1 and NL 2 combined. I am interested in Tommy-as you say he shot to the top like a meteor-but than went down the same way.Never made the World Final-anyone out there know what happened and why he didn't stay at the top. I think he must have passed away by now but what a rider!! Is there anyone out in forumland who saw TM ride???

 

Tommy Miller came from Blantyre, the same place as Ken McKinlay and the Beatons, he also had a motorcylce dealership in the Burnbank area of Hamilton where I come from. Of course all this was well before my time, but I have heard and read about him and his exploits. After scorching to top at White City, he moved onto Motherwell for the 1954 season, whch was apparently a massive coup for the Eagles at the time, but he asked for a transfer before the season had even ended, moving onto Coventry. He then rode for Oxford before his career ended in 1956. New tyre regulations and failing finances in speedway have been blamed for his rapid demise. He actually acted as a referee during the 1964 'Black' PL, before he passed away in the late 60s after suffering from il-health for some time.

 

Here is a wee exerpt from an old Scottish speedway mag, chronicling Tommys astonishing Test match debut;

 

TOMMY WAS ATOMIC

 

The Greatest Test Debut Ever

 

There have been many young riders who have caused a stir with a sensational debut in a Test match, which in team terms should be the pinnacle of speedway racing.

 

Dent Oliver of Belle Vue actually scored a maximum against Australia in his debut Test in 1948 on his home track, a remarkable effort. It was'nt his first season of speedway but it was his first Test.

 

Unmatchable? Not quite, because a young Scotsman can beat that.

 

Right at the end of the 1949 season the name of Tommy Miller had begun to appear in the Consolation Scurry at White City, holding his own with fellow juniors such as Gordon Mitchell, Red Monteith and Niven McCreadie. He had only taken up the sport in September of that year.

 

By the start of the 1950 season, after a winter of training with the Bothwell Bulls team, 21 year old Tommy from High Blantyre had made the Tigers' team- just. He rode as second reserve in the opening meeting, and Ian Hoskins in listing the newcomers that season, put Tommy fifth behind Gundy Harris, Peter Dykes, Johnny Green and Willie Gordon. He scored 1 from 3 rides against Newcastle on 5th April.

 

But his rate of improvement was incredible. Literally, there has never been anything like it. Peter Collins, Michael Lee, Joe Screen.......their progress was snail-like compared to the man who became known as 'Atomic Tommy'.

 

This was astonishing, and in recognition of the mark he was making he was appointed captain of the Scotland team for the first 1950 Test v England at his home track, in a fixture staged on an unusual Monday night. Brilliant Aussies Jack Young and Ken Le Breton were amongst his team mates, and the English knowing they had a battle on their hands, included World no. 2 of the previous year, Jack Parker, World no. 3 Louis Lawson, and the superb young Halifax rider Arthur Forrest.

 

Few could have many doubts, given his form, that Miller would give the English a run for their money, but he managed to exceed expectations. In fact, it was a very wet night after rain all day, but it made no difference to Tommy.

 

He beat Jack Parker in heat one, in easily the fastest time of the night. He won a re-run heat 6 from Louis Lawson. He beat Arthur Forrest to take heat 8 - nine points at the interval.

 

Heat 10 topped everything. Here is Ian Hoskins' description from a later Tigers' programme.

 

"Tommy's ride in heat 10, when he came from last to defeat Jack Parker on the third lap, and the dash half the length of the back straight, to catch and pass Vic Emms on the last corner, was the highlight of the meeting. Hats were literally thrown onto the air What greater achievement could a Scottish born lad achieve in his first season than this?"

 

After that, he could'nt lose. The last two heat wins were a formality as Tommy Miller completed a historic 18-point score in his first season, an achievement that can never be beaten.

 

Miller gave Tigers' fans countless thrills in four seasons with the club, achieving incredible consitency in club racing, but not going on to reach World standards which seemed to be a formality for him. He seemed to be primarily a Tigers' man, because when he moved on and White City closed, Miller wasn't half the rider.

 

But no-one need ever forget the glory night, and there was none better than the night Miller scored 18 on his debut against the English.

 

SCORERS:

 

SCOTLAND 67 - T. Miller 18, K. Le Breton 15, J. Young 14, M. Harding 9, W. Wilson 8, D. Campbell 1, N. Lindsay 1, G. McGregor 1.

 

ENGLAND 41 - L. Lawson 12, J Parker 11, V Emms 6, C. Roger 3, A. Forrest 3, G. Bennett 3, L. Williams 3, J. Reason 0.

 

.........I would have loved to have witnessed 'Atomic Tommy' in his pomp

 

 

 

 

 

[speedyguy]

On the oldtimespeedway site, the list seems basic in its nominations...just 21 riders named for a top 20 list. Was it as close as that in Scotland? After missing a nomination from the founding list, Eric Liddell seems to have come in with some reasonable support. I thought he was a midget car driver...he's listed as the 1953 Scottish champion in this motorsport.

 

 

http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/oldtimespeedway

Edited June 22, 2009 by speedyguy

[iris123]

Yes, I seem to remember Tommy Miller in NL1. Wasn't he with Coventry. I'll check that later. The debate on

 

http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/oldtimespeedway

 

has certainly thrown up several interesting names. Doesn't Eric Liddell deserve a better rating than he's been given by several of its Posters?

 

 

On the oldtimespeedway site, the list seems basic in its nominations...just 21 riders named for a top 20 list. Was it as close as that in Scotland? After missing a nomination from the founding list, Eric Liddell seems to have come in with some reasonable support. I thought he was a midget car driver...he's listed as the 1953 Scottish champion in this motorsport.

 

 

http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/oldtimespeedway

So which is it-?Does he deserve more support or has he got reasonable support?

 

I am surprised there are 21 Scots worth mentioning

 

No.I didn't see Miller and McKinlay was really well past his best before i took much notice of him.But he has to be up there.Alongside the Templeton brother who i was named after Jimmy Mac,George Hunter,Brian Collins,Kenny McKinna and do we have to mention Bertola??????Do we?

[Paulco]

So which is it-?Does he deserve more support or has he got reasonable support?

 

I am surprised there are 21 Scots worth mentioning

 

No.I didn't see Miller and McKinlay was really well past his best before i took much notice of him.But he has to be up there.Alongside the Templeton brother who i was named after Jimmy Mac,George Hunter,Brian Collins,Kenny McKinna and do we have to mention Bertola??????Do we?

I'm too young to have seen Tommy Miller ride for the Tigers , and Ken McKinley was at the end of his illustrious career when i started going to see speedway at Glasgow's White City as a bright-eyed nine year old .

But in my 40 years of watching speedway - it's no contest Jim McMillan is the greatest Scotsman to have ridden a speedway bike . And yes you are correct , i think i would be struggling to name 20 likely candidates from the time i have been going .

 

[speedyguy]

So which is it-?Does he deserve more support or has he got reasonable support?

 

I am surprised there are 21 Scots worth mentioning

 

No.I didn't see Miller and McKinlay was really well past his best before i took much notice of him.But he has to be up there.Alongside the Templeton brother who i was named after Jimmy Mac,George Hunter,Brian Collins,Kenny McKinna and do we have to mention Bertola??????Do we?

 

Sorry, I was a little confusing over Eric Liddell. Basically, I was asking if he deserved a Top 20 Scottish riders placing and, if so, just where he should be in the list. He came into the ratings after not being named in the first Post on the subject, but seemed by subequent Posters to be fairly well respected by them. Hope that clears up my unintentional confusion.

[tigerowl]

As regards Tommy Miller-surely he did ride in Div 1 1957 when the NL 1 and NL 2 combined.

 

Tommy's last meeting was at the end of the 1956 season. He turned up for pre season practice at Oxford in 1957 but packed up, went home and retired.

 

He never rode a meeting in the top flight.

 

[yesterdaysman]

I can vaguely remember Tommy coming to Oxford, was still quite handy at the time. A few years later Gordon McGregor told me that Tommy's deal with Oxford was to have his bike looked after and kept in Oxford. He would then travel down by train, ride the meeting, then purchase a car in the trade (I think from the London area) and drive it back to Scotland to sell. Maybe they reneged on the deal at the start of '57 which resulted in his quick exit!

[star ghost]

I saw Tommy Miller ride for the old Glasgow side. Like Hurri Ken Tommy was quite a good rider in those days. Speedway was "different" then and Tommy more than held his own. A number of the riders from Div 2 rode in Test matches and of course Jack Young won the World Title from his second div days so there is no need to say he had to ride in div 1 to be rated by anyone at all

[Bert Harkins]

Hi speedyguy-looked at that site with interest-no question in my mind that Ken McKinlay was #1- I would have put Jimmy McMillan #2, and George Hunter #3. As regards Tommy Miller-surely he did ride in Div 1 1957 when the NL 1 and NL 2 combined. I am interested in Tommy-as you say he shot to the top like a meteor-but than went down the same way.Never made the World Final-anyone out there know what happened and why he didn't stay at the top. I think he must have passed away by now but what a rider!! Is there anyone out in forumland who saw TM ride???

 

 

Yup, I saw Tommy Miller riding for Glasgow Tigers at the old White City stadium when I was just a wee laddie Glasgow Tigers' fan in short troosers! (or kilt).

 

White City was a big track, around 440 yards, with long M1-type straights and tight hairpin corners, and I always remember that Tommy with his highly polished black leathers and white socks over his black boots, was lighting fast from the gate and had an "armchair" style, throwing his bike sideways as he crossed over the starting gate every lap and sliding 3/4 the way down the straight and into the corners under full control. Most riders at that time waited a bit longer before sliding into the corners.

 

"Atomic Tommy", as Ian Hoskins called him, was unbeatable around White City and won all his races from the gate, scoring maximums every week, so he was not my favourite Tiger at the time. That was "Hurri-Ken" McKinlay, who used to gate dead last and finish first and was always spectacular to watch. In his later days with Leicester and West Ham, Ken was one of the fastest starters in the sport, so it just shows that "Practice Makes Perfect"!

Haggis

 

 

[BOBBATH]

What about good old Bert Harkins being in the top five??

[Paulco]

What about good old Bert Harkins being in the top five??

Probably would be . In my time watching speedway i would place him behind Jim McMillan , George Hunter and Bobby Beaton . But i would put him ahead of the Templetons , Brian Collins and James Grieves . So yes i would have him in the top 5 .

 

[speedyguy]

The latest Top 20 poll on

 

http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/oldtimespeedway

 

gives this Top Five in its ratings:

 

1 - Jim McMillan

2- George Hunter

3- Ken McKinlay

4- Tommy Miller

5- Gordon McGregor

 

...and Eric Liddell, forgotten man in the first ratings list posted there, continues to move up the chart.

Edited June 24, 2009 by speedyguy

[iris123]

I thought Eric Liddell was the bloke from Chariots of Fire.....can't say i have ever heard of him in speedway.....

 

Seems a reasonable top 5 although i would have thought Ken would be at no.2.And of course Miller seems to be the Scottish Brian Crutcher .Someone who shot onto the scene and disappeared just as quickly...i would say it was debatable who was better,the Templetons or Bert Harkins.I guess i would say Doug,then Bert and then Willie......in the bubbling unders

[mervjankefanclub]

I thought Eric Liddell was the bloke from Chariots of Fire.....can't say i have ever heard of him in speedway.....

 

Thats exactly what I thought, when I first saw the name, Iris, but didnt want to say anything Got to be honest it is a name I am not familiar with in Scottish speedway either

 

Looking at the latest list, surely Kenny McKinna merits a higher placing than 14th After a spectacular apprenticeship with the Tigers at Blantyre, he went on to give the Aces 5 solid years in the top flight, before returning home to spearhead the Stripes triumphant return to the city and he remained one of the top dogs in the lower league until his retirement 11 years later. The young Kenny McKinna was one of the most exciting riders I ever saw

Edited June 24, 2009 by mervjankefanclub

[iris123]

Thats exactly what I thought, when I first saw the name, Iris, but didnt want to say anything Got to be honest it is a name I am not familiar with in Scottish speedway either

Same as me....i was waiting,then thought well no-one is going to mention it,i had better

[BOBBATH]

I thought the same about Eric Liddell-Chariots of Fire-incidentally that Eric Liddell died in China in WW2-he was a missonary-the actor who played him in the movie whose name I have forgotten died also- very young- of AIDS I think-he was a well known gay(not that there's anything wrong with that)!!

[BOBBATH]

I really think Ken McKinlay should be #1-longevity, Capt of West Ham in 1965 when they were Champs, several World Finals including 1969 when he was 41, and almost a dark horse winner in 1956-but for a fall he could have done it. No contest-I think the only other World Finalist is JimMcMillan(once as reserve I think).