GREDON Posted October 9, 2003 Report Share Posted October 9, 2003 Well not quite the wheel, but is interesting to see in this weeks Star, BSI are putting forward proposal, for GPs to have 16 riders and 20 heat formula, as the old World Final. Amazing they should be given any credit for this as it is what fans and possibly some riders have been asking for ever since Ole Olsen brought out the 'Its a Knockout' formula. Hopefully this new? idea is put into practice, and we can then watch each rider competing against each other at least once and off different gate positions, roll on 2005. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomhaines Posted October 9, 2003 Report Share Posted October 9, 2003 Well not quite the wheel, but is interesting to see in this weeks Star, BSI are putting forward proposal, for GPs to have 16 riders and 20 heat formula, as the old World Final. Amazing they should be given any credit for this as it is what fans and possibly some riders have been asking for ever since Ole Olsen brought out the 'Its a Knockout' formula.Hopefully this new? idea is put into practice, and we can then watch each rider competing against each other at least once and off different gate positions, roll on 2005. Great idea imo. Less Riders = less distruption to gb league More rides for each rider Only riders in it to win it The prize money shared between 16 instead of 24.... Less riders to transport to gps outside of normal speedway countries. Its a great idea and makes it much more difficult to win as there will be 15 riders all in it to be world champion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grachan Posted October 10, 2003 Report Share Posted October 10, 2003 Personally I don't think it's a good idea to revert to the old formula. The current system is much easier for people watching and every race has meaning. I actually think it could prove a costly mistake if they do this. The cut and thrust of the GP is what has made it such an attraction. It may be what some fans have been asking for but I don't think it's likely to be as attractive to the casual spectator. There is still going to be semi finals and a final, so in effect you will get 20 qualifying heats, some of the later ones of which have no relevence whatsoever, with just 3 meaningful races at the end. If they are going to do it, though, I agree that the first 2 should be seeded direct to the final. Thinking back to Leigh Admas Testimonial meeting, Jason Crump scored a 15 point maximum, then failed to qualify from his semi, which seemed a bit unfair to me. Anyway. Bad idea all round. I think the KO system is what makes the GP what it is - unique. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff. Posted October 10, 2003 Report Share Posted October 10, 2003 Spot on Grachan. I loved the old World Finals but how many meaningless races were in a one off final. By heat 8 at least half the field could not win and by interval it was usually only 2, maybe 3 who still had a chance. Also the format was unforgiving, 1 fall or engine failure and your out of it. In a GP every rider in every race can still win the meeting which to me is why it works so well. This format is the future for world championships and I for one would not like to revert back to the one off final format. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frigbo Posted October 10, 2003 Report Share Posted October 10, 2003 Oh dear Speedway reverting back to the dark ages. There were far too many meaningless races in World Finals, also despite there being only 16 riders intended there will still only be 5 or 6 at most who are realistically in with a chance of winning the titile. The current format makes every race meaningful, although i do believe the starting position process needs looking at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedy swindon pete Posted October 10, 2003 Report Share Posted October 10, 2003 I'm with grachan and jeff The current format is totally unique to any other world final format. That is what makes SGP's so interesting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatface Posted October 10, 2003 Report Share Posted October 10, 2003 Personally I don't think it's a good idea to revert to the old formula. The current system is much easier for people watching and every race has meaning. I actually think it could prove a costly mistake if they do this. The cut and thrust of the GP is what has made it such an attraction. It may be what some fans have been asking for but I don't think it's likely to be as attractive to the casual spectator. There is still going to be semi finals and a final, so in effect you will get 20 qualifying heats, some of the later ones of which have no relevence whatsoever, with just 3 meaningful races at the end. If they are going to do it, though, I agree that the first 2 should be seeded direct to the final. Thinking back to Leigh Admas Testimonial meeting, Jason Crump scored a 15 point maximum, then failed to qualify from his semi, which seemed a bit unfair to me. Anyway. Bad idea all round. I think the KO system is what makes the GP what it is - unique. Agree totally. The current format makes the meeting build to a crescendo, now it will only really get going towards the end. The danger is that people will turn off their TV in droves and tune back in just to watch the final couple of races. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackofdiamonds Posted October 10, 2003 Report Share Posted October 10, 2003 Sorry to be one who casts doubt on the previous posters. Should the GP go to 20 heats I for one would welcome it. Five races, one winner, 9 or 10 meetings, we would see the true champion Mr consistency rules. But would Sky go along? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomhaines Posted October 10, 2003 Report Share Posted October 10, 2003 Sorry to be one who casts doubt on the previous posters. Should the GP go to 20 heats I for one would welcome it. Five races, one winner, 9 or 10 meetings, we would see the true champion Mr consistency rules. But would Sky go along? It definatly works. If the points the rider scores in the meeting are those which go to their totals eg 15, 13. Then every point is vital and with only 15 riders in it all season they will all be going for the title as every point could be the difference between victory and loss. You'd need to change the first round of heats as you'd end up with the top 4 riders in heat 1 together. Prehaps when seeding the riders they go in an order like this. 1, 5, 9, 13? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grachan Posted October 10, 2003 Report Share Posted October 10, 2003 Don't know why, but I'm getting extrememely wound up by this topic. Most strange. I really think this is such a bad move. Maybe I'm just a negative kind of guy, but it seems to me a few Speedway purists will wallow in the glory of a return to the old system, the crowds will drop in the GPs due to the rather uneventful nature of them, Sky will pull out, even less people will go, War will be declared, the World will end. And a few guys will study their programmes, work out the finer details of the qualification, and barely notice the GP's return to Coventry and care even less about the carnage around them. God help us all! Or maybe I'm over reacting! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frigbo Posted October 10, 2003 Report Share Posted October 10, 2003 I'm with you Grachan! By all means cut the number of riders to 16, there are too many no hopers in the GP's at the moment. Sort out a decent qualification system and a fairer gate selection process and Bob's ya knob. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest the blade Posted October 10, 2003 Report Share Posted October 10, 2003 I'm with you Grachan! By all means cut the number of riders to 16, there are too many no hopers in the GP's at the moment. Sort out a decent qualification system and a fairer gate selection process and Bob's ya knob. How can you say that the likes of jason lyons are no hopers ? these are top el riders i think we should go back to the old days with a one off final and have less speedway on tv to bring the crowds back Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark cox Posted October 10, 2003 Report Share Posted October 10, 2003 Less speedway on TV, then we'll have the crowds back???????????????????? What fresh hell is this????????????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salty Posted October 11, 2003 Report Share Posted October 11, 2003 Is the 16 rider thing planned for next year?? If it is then I assume that this years top 10 will join with the 6 who qualified from Poole, which would mean no wild-cards and no seeded riders for 2004???? That means no Loram, no Lukas, no Max, but we do get Jesper B. Or are they thinking ahead to 2005? Seems like cost is the main incentive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frigbo Posted October 11, 2003 Report Share Posted October 11, 2003 Less speedway on TV, then we'll have the crowds back????????????????????What fresh hell is this????????????? Tongues and cheeks come to mind Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazysue Posted October 11, 2003 Report Share Posted October 11, 2003 You mean to say, that after finally working out how it all worked, and starting to like it, they are thinking of changing it all. Also speedway cannot be compared to Formula 1, they have qualifying stages in the two days prior to the race and then the race is over a long distance, not 4 laps, although I am still undecided on the changes they have made to qualifying this year. It was the current (speedway) gp format that initially got my notice (after a very long absence from speedway). I (personaly) thinks it works quite well and does give an exciting viewing point for the spectator....but then I'm no speedway purist...anything that gets the punters in, then why not do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomhaines Posted October 11, 2003 Report Share Posted October 11, 2003 Eureka I've got it lol! Regular 20 heat format. (Backwards so that riders seeded 1-4 meet in heat 20 instead of 1) Then a B final (5th to 8th) with riders scoring points 4,3,2,1 to add to their totals. And then an A Final with points 8,7,6,5. I ran it with speedway meeting and it works lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatface Posted October 11, 2003 Report Share Posted October 11, 2003 Don't know why, but I'm getting extrememely wound up by this topic. Most strange. I really think this is such a bad move. Maybe I'm just a negative kind of guy, but it seems to me a few Speedway purists will wallow in the glory of a return to the old system, the crowds will drop in the GPs due to the rather uneventful nature of them, Sky will pull out, even less people will go, War will be declared, the World will end. And a few guys will study their programmes, work out the finer details of the qualification, and barely notice the GP's return to Coventry and care even less about the carnage around them. God help us all! Or maybe I'm over reacting! I am totally with you on this Grachan. They are not everyone's cup of tea (especially the speedway purists) but BSI have taken our sport and made it far more appealling to the wider masses. In the current format - every race counts. in the old one, it wouldn't. Just another point, but if we went in for 20 heats plus final with 4-3-2-1 points as well or some similar suggestion. Isn't there a danger that quite often two or more riders will emerge as joint top scorers from a GP? Or the winner of the final isn't necassarily the overall winner of that particular GP? :roll: I don't think Joe Public would buy that. People want clear results, were we have a 1st -2nd - 3rd result. Not a winner of the final, but two other guys who have scored the most points . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grachan Posted October 11, 2003 Report Share Posted October 11, 2003 It was the current (speedway) gp format that initially got my notice (after a very long absence from speedway). Me too. The sport was, how to say, dragged kicking and screaming into the modern age and I started to go to meetings after a (shortish but significant) break from the sport. I really think it works well, and while there may be a bit of a problem with gate positions, it can hardly be called an unfair system as it goes on form over a whole season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevehone Posted October 11, 2003 Report Share Posted October 11, 2003 but there are people saying that Pedersen isn't the best rider in the world yet he won a GP series... so maybe there is the 'Jerzy Szczakiel Syndrome' available still even in the current format. my biggest problem with the current GP format is the gate positions. when you ride a 2nd half race, there is a box with 4 coloured balls (sorry if that got Peter excited) that gets a shake and drop into the gate positions... primitive but fair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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