Midnight_Lady Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 (edited) "favours"????? Someone has to be in a position to listen to complaints from the riders.I think it only fair that in any job there is a system in place where such things can be calmly and impartially investigated.Someone has to have the job.And i guess that is Olsen.It isn't easy to find top officials from Argentina,Ecuador or Papua New Guinea in our sport.That is why i guess a British ref was in charge of the Team U21 meeting this weekend in Germany where GB were competing.And there were a number of complaints on the net that he was for instance letting the British rider back in after a first bend fall,but excluded an Australian rider for the same thing in another heat....... The point is that Pedersen was complaining about an exclusion. Whether it was correct or not things happen like this all the time in speedway so does that mean we shall see more riders in all leagues being allowed to moan about it after a meeting in order to get a referee removed from a meeting? I don't remember Leigh Adams looking for the referee to be removed from a GP when he was unfairly excluded for supposedly bringing Pedersen down last year. It's setting a precedent and where will it end. Edited June 5, 2009 by Midnight_Lady Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 The point is that Pedersen was complaining about an exclusion. Whether it was correct or not things happen like this all the time in speedway so does that mean we shall see more riders in all leagues being allowed to moan about it after a meeting in order to get a referee removed from a meeting? I don't remember Leigh Adams looking for the referee to be removed from a GP when he was unfairly excluded for supposedly bringing Pedersen down last year. It's setting a precedent and where will it end. There is a big difference between Leigh and Nicki in attitude.One is a mulitple World Champion and the other just doesn't have what it takes to win even a single title.I don't mean any disrespect to Leigh,but he just doesn't have the mental attitude for it.Nicki does.That might be why Nicki sat down with Ole and why Leigh just shrugs his shoulders? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midnight_Lady Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 There is a big difference between Leigh and Nicki in attitude.One is a mulitple World Champion and the other just doesn't have what it takes to win even a single title.I don't mean any disrespect to Leigh,but he just doesn't have the mental attitude for it.Nicki does.That might be why Nicki sat down with Ole and why Leigh just shrugs his shoulders? Or maybe Pedersen thinks if he spits the dummy and stamps his feet long enough he will get his own way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 Or maybe Pedersen thinks if he spits the dummy and stamps his feet long enough he will get his own way. You are just guessing......but what i have said is a fact.Nicki and Leigh have different mental approaches.That is why Nicki has won a few titles and why Leigh hasn't won any.Leigh even said himself one or 2 years ago he would have a more tougher approach......but it was just talk in the end.Like you say,he was unfairly excluded and done nowt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 (edited) There is a big difference between Leigh and Nicki in attitude.One is a mulitple World Champion and the other just doesn't have what it takes to win even a single title.I don't mean any disrespect to Leigh,but he just doesn't have the mental attitude for it.Nicki does.That might be why Nicki sat down with Ole and why Leigh just shrugs his shoulders? I cannot believe you have said this Iris Leigh has been the top league rider of his profession alongside Jason Crump and Tony Rickardsson for the last 10 years+ ............. look through the GB, Swedish and Polish combined averages ................ without mentioning armchairs or mildura the guy really is class personified.............. he is also a respected voice of reason........... You are correct that Leigh doesnt have what Nicki has... but that is double edged.......... Nicki takes risks and puts himself right up peoples noses on and off track and this always has downsides.......... as posted elsewhere my opinion is that he was caught out riding the man and not the track as he has been consistently doing so far this season........... if a rider is doing that then they will end up at some point in a situation where they are excluded ........... Leigh Adams could be accused of the opposite.... not being hard enough........... The fact that Leigh doesnt go off crying to people is because he is built this way and he knows that within the rules of the sport there isnt much that can or perhaps more importantly SHOULD be done........please ask yourself first of all why Nicki feels that he may get somewhere if he does go crying to Ole/FIM? Surely if as a rider he knows that nothing can and should be done he wouldnt even bother? Could it perhaps indicate that something has been bent before? Maybe several times? There should be no appealing about something and there should certainly be no interference from the FIM unless for very good reason............. if they saw fit to appoint the ref in the first place then I see no reason whatsoever to change that and in doing so they only make something fishy Edited June 5, 2009 by spook Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 I cannot believe you have said this Iris Leigh has been the top league rider of his profession alongside Jason Crump and Tony Rickardsson for the last 10 years+ ............. look through the GB, Swedish and Polish combined averages ................ without mentioning armchairs or mildura the guy really is class personified.............. he is also a respected voice of reason........... You are correct that Leigh doesnt have what Nicki has... You can't believe i said it.....then go on to repeat my arguement what i said We are discussing the World title here....and no amount of league stats were or will ever be relevant...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 (edited) how on earth have I repeated you? you are saying that the ref may have been changed because Nicki pushed for it I am saying that it is irrelevant if he pushed for it or not...... and in fact he should know not even to try because there is no way on this planet that the GP's should be run like that so if we are talking about the rights and wrongs of pushing then im sorry but it is not in Nicki's favour if he is........ and Leigh is the one with the correct attitude!....... and if one's opinion was to be trusted more than the other who exactly should that be? In my world it isnt the person who shouts loudest what strange discussions we have on here sometimes!..................... doesnt it just prove how twisted this sport has become? Edited June 5, 2009 by spook Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 how on earth have I repeated you? you are saying that the ref may have been changed because Nicki pushed for it I am saying that it is irrelevant if he pushed for it or not...... and in fact he should know not even to try because there is no way on this planet that the GP's should be run like that so if we are talking about the rights and wrongs of pushing then im sorry but it is not in Nicki's favour if he is........ and Leigh is the one with the correct attitude!....... and if one's opinion was to be trusted more than the other who exactly should that be? In my world it isnt the person who shouts loudest what strange discussions we have on here sometimes!..................... doesnt it just prove how twisted this sport has become? Because i said they have different attitudes that makes one a World Champ and the other on the list of best riders never to win a world title.......then you go on to say how great Leigh is but doesn't have the attitude or mental strength to win a world title....... Everyone should have the chance to talk over grievances about their job.If more riders took Nicki's attitude then maybe the GP's would be better rather than just shrug their shoulders when the tracks are not up to scratch and refs might study the video footage and make an impartial judgment based on what happened.rather than judging an incident on which rider is involved or what they thought they saw...... But your last point is a good one........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostwalker Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 Because i said they have different attitudes that makes one a World Champ and the other on the list of best riders never to win a world title.......then you go on to say how great Leigh is but doesn't have the attitude or mental strength to win a world title....... Everyone should have the chance to talk over grievances about their job.If more riders took Nicki's attitude then maybe the GP's would be better rather than just shrug their shoulders when the tracks are not up to scratch and refs might study the video footage and make an impartial judgment based on what happened.rather than judging an incident on which rider is involved or what they thought they saw...... But your last point is a good one........ i have an addition to that and that is that the ref' should not make a judgement based on their personal feelings towards that rider. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 i have an addition to that and that is that the ref' should not make a judgement based on their personal feelings towards that rider. I agree.That is one of the points i was trying to make Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook Posted June 6, 2009 Report Share Posted June 6, 2009 lol this is becoming more and more strange by the post the bottom line surely is that a referee's decision is final .... and that the sport should do its upmost to remain professional at all times I have no issue with NP, JC, ES or any of the riders being annoyed with a decision and sounding off at the camera..... some of them are quite entertaining when they do it ....... however there should still be a level of respect reserved for the refs and if there isnt fines should follow the most important thing here is what has followed after though.......... did a combination of Nicki and Ole really replace the ref for the next GP? If so that is completely outrageous and wholly unprofessional................ tbh i'm not a great fan of the ref as he has made some odd decisions in the past.......... this just highlights things even more in this case though when the decision was a close one refs might study the video footage and make an impartial judgment based on what happened.rather than judging an incident on which rider is involved or what they thought they saw...... are we talking about the incident at the last GP now or something from a previous season? i have an addition to that and that is that the ref' should not make a judgement based on their personal feelings towards that rider. and where is the ref quoted as indicating this? I think thats a very bold statement thinking about things if I was Grodzki I wouldnt like Pedersen too much after the way he has been spoken to and insulted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted June 6, 2009 Report Share Posted June 6, 2009 lol this is becoming more and more strange by the post Well.....when you post it is becoming stranger W.G.Grace wasn't a speedway rider and this sport isn't cricket.....and even cricket isn't the cricket it was.......Mike Gatting et al.Why on earth if a rider thinks the ref has made a bad decision can he not ask for that decision to be re-examined?Or to ask for the refs competence to be examined if the rider thinks the guy has made a series of failures over a period of time?This is their livelyhood we are talking about,not a hobby.That is the bottom line..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook Posted June 6, 2009 Report Share Posted June 6, 2009 with the greatest of respect Iris it really has got a bit silly now lol the decision was a hard one ... I am certain that we would have had mixed results from all referees...................... NickiP quite frankly would blame someone else if his shoelace came undone...even if he knew it was his fault!................ If Ole is happy for every rider to approach him so he can mop up their tears then I guess that there is nothing wrong with a rider approaching but you do know what people are saying here ............. and on paper this looks very wrong........this looks like between Nicki and Ole they have had the ref removed from the next GP because of a decision which unlike in the past (when he wasnt removed lol) was at worst borderline....... you talked before about Pedersen's profession being at stake..... does that not apply for the refs as well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted June 6, 2009 Report Share Posted June 6, 2009 Yes it is a bit childish now.I would have thought it was obvious from what i have said about riders and their jobs,that the same rules apply to refs as well I guess the thing is though is it a profession for the guys or a hobby?........bottom line again.It is a bit hard for professionals to have hobbyists making very important decisions(if that is the case,i don't know.Just making the point if it is). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook Posted June 6, 2009 Report Share Posted June 6, 2009 when we boil down this odd discussion..........do you realise that you have backed the removal of a ref who had to make a borderline decision because Ole 'has obviously sat down with Nicki and listened to his complaint'?? you obviously have a huge issue with the ref... and tbh I cant blame you there as he has made some shocking decisions in the past ... but at the end of the day we are not talking about those decisions now... we are talking about the one with Emil .............. and we are talking about the people running this competition yet again making a ripe stink................ i'm suprised anyone would be happy to look the other way or worse back behaviour from the competition organisers like this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lis Posted June 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 9, 2009 the bottom line surely is that a referee's decision is final .... and that the sport should do its upmost to remain professional at all times. I have no issue with NP, JC, ES or any of the riders being annoyed with a decision and sounding off at the camera..... some of them are quite entertaining when they do it ....... however there should still be a level of respect reserved for the refs and if there isnt fines should follow the most important thing here is what has followed after though.......... did a combination of Nicki and Ole really replace the ref for the next GP? If so that is completely outrageous and wholly unprofessional.................. this just highlights things even more in this case though when the decision was a close one Could it be a combination of the polish refs dad being the vicepresident of the FIM??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook Posted June 9, 2009 Report Share Posted June 9, 2009 sorry Lis I am missing your point? you are saying he was replaced because he is the son of the FIM vice president? or that he had the job in the first place because of this? the first is no reason to remove him and the second has nothing to do with his performance in the Swedish GP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lis Posted June 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 9, 2009 Sorry if i didnt come out more clear,i just ment that people say nicki and ole had the ref removed cause they are both danes and the next gp is in copenhagen,i ment that the ref might be protected cause his dad is the FIM vicepresident, others in the FIM might want him out completely and not just for 1 gp?? just a tought.. Any conspiracy teorists around? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook Posted June 9, 2009 Report Share Posted June 9, 2009 I am sure there have been lots of speedway fans in the past who have wanted him out purely based on some of the inexcusable shocking decisions he has made................... but this is the point Lis...... we are talking about the decision at Gothenburg in terms of him being replaced for Parken.......................... quite simply it was not a shocking decision...... it was a difficult decision that he had to make and could have gone either way I'm all for listening to conspiracy theories although I also like them to be backed up with some facts, stats and %'s ....... and in this case the %'s of this happening due to a decision that wasnt completely outrageous are all wrong............... yes i'm afraid this does point to shady goings on but not in the direction you want Lis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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