Scunny Stag Posted April 4, 2009 Report Share Posted April 4, 2009 Hmm, I could be wrong (it has been known... ) but am not sure that James Sarjeant still qualifies for the U-15s championship does he..?? Surely any riders able to take their place in a NL side at season's-start must by definition be too old for the U-15s..?? Which would suggest that Kyle's in the same boat.. I suggested a few months back that it would make better sense to change to an Under 16s championship giving better chances to youngsters to get a NL team berth and still give their all to the national junior championship (rather than the conflict that can confuse or divide...) but - quelle surprise! - I don't think one single person commented on that idea..!! James doesn't qualify but Kyle does. James' birthday is November whilst Kyle's is February and for the U-15's the cut-off is 1st January whilst any rider can ride in the NL as soon as they turn 15. With regards to your suggestion of being under-16 I must admit I didn't really understand it then nor now. How does extending the eligibility of riders prevent a conflict? Surely reducing the age would prevent a conflict. Actually, Derek, I think U-15 is better than U-16 because it gives competition to riders not in the league whereas extending the age, in theory at least, might squeeze some of the younger ones out. The young league riders are more suited to the one-off U-18 meeting and the U-21 championship than a series of six meetings. That said any club who has riders eligible for the U-15 should do all they can to allow them to ride in the championship and the league should also encourage rearrangements where conflicts exist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morganbike Posted April 4, 2009 Report Share Posted April 4, 2009 (edited) The greatest loss to the series was Peter Oakes and it was the BSPA that forced him out. IN my opinion there are only two people capable of running it succesfully. One being Laurence Rogers and the other Richard Hollingsworth. The BSPA aka # Name Removed # and Reeve rarely attend Junior meetings or Second Halves so have no idea who riders are and their abilities. They are happy to put expenses in to fly abroad and book hotels for the under 19's /21's but will not part with enough cash to run the under 15's here in the UK. All it takes is £1000 per round to put on at any track. A classic quote I can give was in March 2008 when Oakes had packed in and I rang Reeve to ask about the series and any dates. I offered my services to help and to supply names of eligable riders. He said its ok we are writing to the 8 riders who currently have licences and have some dates i the pipeline. He then questioned as to who I was and then said Does your son ride !!. Yes I said, have you not heard of him. No came the reply. If the Chairman of the BSPA and also a match referee at the time had never heard of the 2007 under 15's Champion then what hope is there. The under 16 debate has been discussed and will never work without conflict. What could happen is that riders who are aged 15 and 16 that are new to the sport could be allowed to take part. A good example of a riders who has missed out on this years competition is Connor Dwyer who has done a year on a 250 and is just getting onto a 500. He is too old to enter the Under 15's but would benefit from the racing it produces. I believe he cannot ride regularily with that age/ability group at second halves either because of his licence. However if a team wanted him to, he can ride in the National League. Phil Edited April 4, 2009 by morganbike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsloes 1928 nearly Posted April 4, 2009 Report Share Posted April 4, 2009 James doesn't qualify but Kyle does. James' birthday is November whilst Kyle's is February and for the U-15's the cut-off is 1st January whilst any rider can ride in the NL as soon as they turn 15. With regards to your suggestion of being under-16 I must admit I didn't really understand it then nor now. How does extending the eligibility of riders prevent a conflict? Surely reducing the age would prevent a conflict. Actually, Derek, I think U-15 is better than U-16 because it gives competition to riders not in the league whereas extending the age, in theory at least, might squeeze some of the younger ones out. The young league riders are more suited to the one-off U-18 meeting and the U-21 championship than a series of six meetings. That said any club who has riders eligible for the U-15 should do all they can to allow them to ride in the championship and the league should also encourage rearrangements where conflicts exist. The point I was making is how things have changed now that one can't ride 500cc until one gets to 14: a fundamental change from the days that the likes of Josh could compete for two or three years. Josh of course won it twice... If one has a birthday like young Kyle in Feb it's fine; but if - and the example I'll give is Marc Owen - one's birthday is August then this has an effect,I'd say.. Take last year, the Championship starts and Marc's only 13 so is restricted to 250cc. He actually leads that championship but come August when he's allowed to ride 500cc he - quite understandably IMO, for it's at 500cc he will need to ride to progress ASAP into the CL/NL and beyond... - moves up to the higher class. He actually wins his first round at that higher level but in the end it's inevitable he falls between two stools and essentially 2008 it was not possible for him to win the championship... 2009 is split in a way similarly for him. For in August he'll turn 15 and I'm not sure how many U-15 500cc rounds he'll have got through by then..; but clearly in August they'll be a big scramble among NL clubs to sign him up; one team will be lucky and then that'll be his priority: settling int this higher level of racing not being conducive to remaining focused on the U-15 rounds plus there being a chance of missing rounds due to clashing commitments.... So, essentially that may well adversely affect his chances of the championship.. Because of the decreased size of the 'window' for riders with birthdays mid-season since the new rules came in, my argument is make it an U-16s event and this gives a better chance for the best riders of each 'generation' to compete on a more level playing field for the title they deserve. Now I'm only using Marc as an example and I know that actually he and his family are far more concentrated on his long term development and progress than the transitory matter of winning this title; but I do believe that the way it is currently constituted is now a tad unfair on those with mid-season birthdays and I just feel that the simple change to Under 16s (with the 250cc class remaining for essentially the 14 year olds...) would improve matters... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swift Saint Posted April 5, 2009 Report Share Posted April 5, 2009 Parsloes as always you have a way of applying spin to your arguments and your attempts to justify your statements that are often biased. For instance If one has a birthday like young Kyle in Feb it's fine; but if - and the example I'll give is Marc Owen - one's birthday is August then this has an effect,I'd say.. 2009 is split in a way similarly for him. For in August he'll turn 15 and I'm not sure how many U-15 500cc rounds he'll have got through by then..; but clearly in August they'll be a big scramble among NL clubs to sign him up; one team will be lucky and then that'll be his priority: settling int this higher level of racing not being conducive to remaining focused on the U-15 rounds plus there being a chance of missing rounds due to clashing commitments.... So, essentially that may well adversely affect his chances of the championship.. The second piece above is your second point following the umbrella remark in qoutes listed first. Now I would say that by having until August to concentrate on the Under 15's compared to February Marc Owen has an advantage over Kyle Howarth who is absolutely committed and proud to ride for Scunthorpe and makes his debut next week against the League Champions. He will be doing the U 15 Cahmpionship but has reached the disadvantage point you mention for Marc already. I am not trying to score points for or against Marc Owen or Kyle Howarth and wish both of them the very best of luck. I am merely illustrating that for a scribe with your experience your spin is akin to that used by Alistair Campbell. You devalue your comments in every situation due to being blinded by your support for perceived various good causes which is why I call you a supporter. You are unable to look objectively at anything it would seem. I think you would do far better to read the excellent post by Morganbike and fight that cause and also the problems clearly specified by 771Neil. Get your spin to work on those matters for the benefit of all of the riders. Malcolm Vasey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsloes 1928 nearly Posted April 6, 2009 Report Share Posted April 6, 2009 Parsloes as always you have a way of applying spin to your arguments and your attempts to justify your statements that are often biased. Very harsh words Malcolm. I know both you & I are old Stalinists, but really you're taking your thought-police doctrines a bit far here... Richard asked for the logic behind my theory about expanding the championships to U-16 and so I explained it. You're welcome to disagree but to do so in such a way seems like you're not interested in any alternative arguments or theories being suggested. The ONLY reason I've suggested this change is because of the change relating to under 14 years olds having to ride 250cc. I won't explain again as you appear to think that I'm expressing some "biased" view. My only question: exactly WHAT is it you think I'm being biased for..??!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucifer sam Posted April 6, 2009 Report Share Posted April 6, 2009 (edited) Surely the crux of the matter is that they should be enough opportunites at this level for the riders that need them. Any rider who was already 15 on January 1, but still without a NL place, should be allowed to compete. It's not that important who actually wins the championship (although I'm not belitting the achievement of those who have for one moment). It's far more about the experience picked up and how that can be used to help the rider with the progression of their career. All the best Rob Edited April 6, 2009 by lucifer sam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swift Saint Posted April 6, 2009 Report Share Posted April 6, 2009 Very harsh words Malcolm. I know both you & I are old Stalinists, but really you're taking your thought-police doctrines a bit far here... I don't necessarily disagree with opening the competition up nor have I said that. It was just your well spun theory that it was harder for a rider to have a birthday in August than February which I have proved is patently untrue. ie a February birthday could mean NL speedway for a rider from March as the distraction from the U15 Championship whereas the problem you state for an August birthday does not become effective until the U15's is almost complete. Yes we are old stalwarts and love an argument but yours is flawed this time surely Derek. Come on admit it for once!!!! Malcolm Vasey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsloes 1928 nearly Posted April 6, 2009 Report Share Posted April 6, 2009 I don't necessarily disagree with opening the competition up nor have I said that. It was just your well spun theory that it was harder for a rider to have a birthday in August than February which I have proved is patently untrue. ie a February birthday could mean NL speedway for a rider from March as the distraction from the U15 Championship whereas the problem you state for an August birthday does not become effective until the U15's is almost complete. Yes we are old stalwarts and love an argument but yours is flawed this time surely Derek. Come on admit it for once!!!! Malcolm Vasey It's a simple point. Why, only yesterday I was talking to a father of a lad competing in the U-15s and he said to me (with zero prompting on my part..) how good it was that his lad was 14 in Feb and so will be able to have two whole years in the 500cc championship. His lad has, despite his age, NEVER ridden a 250cc.... Actually I think it's true to say that Marc only switched to 250cc coz he was forced to, early last year to compete... So that's from the horse's mouth so-to-speak... Have a birthday in Jan./Feb. sort of time, have two years in the 500cc championship. Have a birthday in August, have just one year... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryn Posted April 6, 2009 Report Share Posted April 6, 2009 There's a simple solution surely and that is better family planning by fathers who have any hopes for a son of theirs to become British Under 15 speedway champions of the future! Whatever 'cut off' date you have, someone will be unhappy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swift Saint Posted April 6, 2009 Report Share Posted April 6, 2009 So that's from the horse's mouth so-to-speak... Have a birthday in Jan./Feb. sort of time, have two years in the 500cc championship. Have a birthday in August, have just one year... But that's not the point you were making, Just leave it Derek - I'm off for a spin. Oh no - I've just had one. Malcolm Vasey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsloes 1928 nearly Posted April 6, 2009 Report Share Posted April 6, 2009 But that's not the point you were making, Er, yes it was!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucifer sam Posted April 6, 2009 Report Share Posted April 6, 2009 So that's from the horse's mouth so-to-speak... Have a birthday in Jan./Feb. sort of time, have two years in the 500cc championship. Have a birthday in August, have just one year... Good grief, Parsloes, it's the Under-15 championship. It's a nice thing for a young lad to win, but winning is certainly not the be-all and end-all. The important thing is the experienced picked up. Don't have a period, Parsloes. All the best Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilK Posted April 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 6, 2009 Surely the crux of the matter is that they should be enough opportunites at this level for the riders that need them. Any rider who was already 15 on January 1, but still without a NL place, should be allowed to compete. Excellent common sense approach to the situation some of these lads find themselves in Rob Of course by applying common sense you know the likelihood of it being taken on board by the sports administrators as a proposal is Nil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsloes 1928 nearly Posted April 6, 2009 Report Share Posted April 6, 2009 Don't have a period, Parsloes. All the best Rob Hurray...: you finally got it right!! I'll teach you teen-speak yet!!! We can celebrate this break-thru' over that pint you're buying me on Sunday!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucifer sam Posted April 6, 2009 Report Share Posted April 6, 2009 Hurray...: you finally got it right!! I'll teach you teen-speak yet!!! We can celebrate this break-thru' over that pint you're buying me on Sunday!! (Parsloes is now getting excited so) Don't have a boner, Parsloes Parsloes, depending on what the weather is like on Sunday, I may or may not put my trip to Mildenhall back to April 26. But whatever the case, I will get you that pint on my trip to West Row. All the best Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
771neil Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 Well at last we have had invite to u15 7 rounds which are 2nd may scunny 23rd may newport 13th june weymouth 25th july buxton 13th august i.o.w 22nd august kings lynn 19th september northside training track was told so far 5 500cc have said yes and 8 250cc confirmed before people ask i ve had all this confirmed by graham reeve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steven101 Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 Hey All, I got a letter through sent it off but it didnt have any information about the 22nd August @ Kings Lynn . So i dont know, I ride a 250cc by the way . If someone has more information on this please could you tell me. Many Thanks Steven Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilK Posted April 8, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 Certainly hope there is a round at Kings Lynn Steven101, be good to have a couple of rounds relatively close to travel to (KL & Scunny)! Hopefully next year Mildenhall will put themselves forward for a round. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy james Posted April 9, 2009 Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 Well at last we have had invite to u15 7 rounds which are 2nd may scunny 23rd may newport 13th june weymouth 25th july buxton 13th august i.o.w 22nd august kings lynn 19th september northside training track was told so far 5 500cc have said yes and 8 250cc confirmed before people ask i ve had all this confirmed by graham reeve Should be an exciting Championship with all 5 riders on 500cc bikes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p'boro lad Posted April 9, 2009 Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 Hey All, I got a letter through sent it off but it didnt have any information about the 22nd August @ Kings Lynn . So i dont know, I ride a 250cc by the way . If someone has more information on this please could you tell me. Many Thanks Steven Copy of e-mail from graham reeve recieved a couple of days ago:- Hi More good news Aug 22nd 3pm at Kings Lynn as well. Can you do it ? Best Regards Graham Its shaping up to be a nice long series of meetings this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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