The 2009 Premier League Riders' Championship

[Shadders]

i'm sure chris would argue that rye doesn't have home track advantage tho!!! (that was my point)

We'd have had two or three home defeats, maybe more, with that side if we'd not had such a huge home advantage ..... I'd even say we'd be battling with Newport for the wooden spoon.

[bluejam]

We'd have had two or three home defeats, maybe more, with that side if we'd not had such a huge home advantage ..... I'd even say we'd be battling with Newport for the wooden spoon.

 

Let us not forget who put an end to your 66 match unbeaten home record!!

[squall]

Ok, someone name a neutral track. By neutral I mean a track that NOBODY in the line up has EVER raced on as their home track

[Shadders]

Let us not forget who put an end to your 66 match unbeaten home record!!

Yeah, the second half of a double header after we'd faced the toughest side in the Premier League with tired and injured riders on worn out machines!! ..... In a one off meeting you'd have gone away pointless as you usually do

[MattyHart]

Eastbourne. Unless you want to count Bunyan's spell in 'Eastbourne II' circa 13 years ago?

[squall]

Eastbourne. Unless you want to count Bunyan's spell in 'Eastbourne II' circa 13 years ago?

 

So that was his own track at some point

 

Next

[Halifaxtiger]

first it wasnt the first PL match on sky nor was it the last so dont see your point

 

the problem with the track was as much political as aboiut the track, the main complainer seems to have a problem with sheffield and has tried at other times to cause problems.

 

you say we need to attract sponsers, when sheffield did this steachman and others refused to have the match sponsers on the handlebars (not bike covers) so whats the point of attracting sponsers when the riders dont want to advertise them?

 

sam ermolemko, an ex world champion dont forgot, could see nothing wrong with the track at all, he said it was a mans track that day

 

you seem to think that birmingham doesnt have any home track advantage, its well known that you have a problem with sheffield so i will accept that this view is based on that fact

 

ashworth was a worthy winner on a track that has got so much home track advantage that we have lost three or four at home and drawn one, that advantage seems to have disapeared a little this season

 

the meeting will only be held on a neutral track when there is enough support from all the fans who want it at neutral venue. until then sheffield it is get over it.

 

PS dont seem to remember all this fuss when Hyde Road used to be the home of the BLRC for so long,

 

I think you are missing the point (or, more accurately, points).

 

What might look to you (and others) as an anti-Sheffield rant by a vicious and biased fan with an axe to grind is anything but and is actually far more important than that. It concerns two issues:

 

1/ The criteria used for the allocation of top meetings;

 

2/ The credibility of British Speedway in general and PL speedway in particular.

 

I am not a member of the BSPA and consequently had no idea of the allocation procedure. Laurence Rogers is (or was) and does and he told me on Saturday night in response to a direct question that it was about bids. I am sure that is not the only criteria - after all, Buxton could hold the ELRC if that was the case - but what I am concerned about is whether the record of a track in holding previous big events is taken into account. As far as I am concerned, the shambles at the PLRC in 2004 should have ruled out Sheffield and I was frankly amazed that they got it the following year. That doesn't apply to them for 2010, but it does for Rye House and the NLRC after the dreadful track surface on Saturday night.

 

It seems to me that past records must be part of the criteria for the allocation of venues but experience suggests that it is not - that just has to be wrong.

 

SCB has hinted at Sheffield's home bias but far more convincing were a set of statistics produced by Shoddy last year (I am sure he could show them again if necessary). On the basis of home & away form over a number of seasons, that indicated that Sheffield was one of the worst home banker tracks in the PL - I stand to be corrected, but if memory serves me well only Exeter was worse. That might be difficult for you and a lot of Tigers fans to stomach, but that's not my prejudice, its his figures.

 

So, we have the PL's most prestigious meeting on one of its most biased circuits. Its representative was, according to last weeks Speedway Star, 20th in the league standings and qualified for the meeting with one of its lowest averages so he is a long way from being one of the best in the league and should, by rights, have been a rank outsider. Things is, though, this rank outsider was riding on his home track, a track that opinion suggests and statistics show has a pronounced home advantage. He wins, and its not too difficult to jump (and it would be a big jump)to the conclusion why.

 

Ask yourself three questions:

 

Would Ashworth have won it anywhere else ?

 

Would Howe, Proctor & Ward got in the final elsewhere ?

 

Does the fact that a rank outsider on his home circuit (a circuit with a pronounced home bias)won the meeting enhance or damage speedways credibility to someone looking in ?

 

I'd say No, Yes & damage.

 

As you can see, from my perspective Sheffield (and Rye House) isn't the problem, its the example and my point is not about slagging Sheffield off, but putting things right for the future and ensuring that as much as possible is done to ensure that our sport is presented in the best possible way so that we might attract more fans, sponsorship and media coverage.

 

For a start, lets be assured that past records are part of the selection process.

 

The ideal is to run meetings on neutral circuits but that is a financial disaster. So the next best thing is to choose the PL circuit that is seen to be the most like a neutral circuit, along with other relevant criteria such as central location, good crowd capacity, decent parking and maybe dining and corporate facilities. Sheffield has all those; so does Birmingham, and Birmingham has the advantage of being seen as less biased (they all have it, just some more than others).

Edited October 1, 2009 by Halifaxtiger

[Daniel Smith]

I think you are missing the point (or, more accurately, points).

 

What might look to you (and others) as an anti-Sheffield rant by a vicious and biased fan with an axe to grind is anything but and is actually far more important than that. It concerns two issues:

 

1/ The criteria used for the allocation of top meetings;

 

2/ The credibility of British Speedway in general and PL speedway in particular.

 

I am not a member of the BSPA and consequently had no idea of the allocation procedure. Laurence Rogers is (or was) and does and he told me on Saturday night in response to a direct question that it was about bids. I am sure that is not the only criteria - after all, Buxton could hold the ELRC if that was the case - but what I am concerned about is whether the record of a track in holding previous big events is taken into account. As far as I am concerned, the shambles at the PLRC in 2004 should have ruled out Sheffield and I was frankly amazed that they got it the following year. That doesn't apply to them for 2010, but it does for Rye House and the NLRC after the dreadful track surface on Saturday night.

 

It seems to me that past records must be part of the criteria for the allocation of venues but experience suggests that it is not - that just has to be wrong.

 

SCB has hinted at Sheffield's home bias but far more convincing were a set of statistics produced by Shoddy last year (I am sure he could show them again if necessary). On the basis of home & away form over a number of seasons, that indicated that Sheffield was one of the worst home banker tracks in the PL - I stand to be corrected, but if memory serves me well only Exeter was worse. That might be difficult for you and a lot of Tigers fans to stomach, but that's not my prejudice, its his figures.

 

So, we have the PL's most prestigious meeting on one of its most biased circuits. Its representative was, according to last weeks Speedway Star, 20th in the league standings and qualified for the meeting with one of its lowest averages so he is a long way from being one of the best in the league and should, by rights, have been a rank outsider. Things is, though, this rank outsider was riding on his home track, a track that opinion suggests and statistics show has a pronounced home advantage. He wins, and its not too difficult to jump (and it would be a big jump)to the conclusion why.

 

Ask yourself three questions:

 

Would Ashworth have won it anywhere else ?

 

Would Howe, Proctor & Ward got in the final elsewhere ?

 

Does the fact that a rank outsider on his home circuit (a circuit with a pronounced home bias)won the meeting enhance or damage speedways credibility to someone looking in ?

 

I'd say No, Yes & damage.

 

As you can see, from my perspective Sheffield (and Rye House) isn't the problem, its the example and my point is not about slagging Sheffield off, but putting things right for the future and ensuring that as much as possible is done to ensure that our sport is presented in the best possible way so that we might attract more fans, sponsorship and media coverage.

 

For a start, lets be assured that past records are part of the selection process.

 

The ideal is to run meetings on neutral circuits but that is a financial disaster. So the next best thing is to choose the PL circuit that is seen to be the most like a neutral circuit, along with other relevant criteria such as central location, good crowd capacity, decent parking and maybe dining and corporate facilities. Sheffield has all those; so does Birmingham, and Birmingham has the advantage of being seen as less biased (they all have it, just some more than others).

 

Spot on, Birmingham would probably be most peoples choice as the fairest track but unfortunatly their future is in dout so that has to be counted out for the time being.

 

After Birmingham, their really isn't a PL track out there to hold an event like this with out the home rider having a massive advantage.

 

 

 

[Daniel Smith]

I think you are missing the point (or, more accurately, points).

 

What might look to you (and others) as an anti-Sheffield rant by a vicious and biased fan with an axe to grind is anything but and is actually far more important than that. It concerns two issues:

 

1/ The criteria used for the allocation of top meetings;

 

2/ The credibility of British Speedway in general and PL speedway in particular.

 

I am not a member of the BSPA and consequently had no idea of the allocation procedure. Laurence Rogers is (or was) and does and he told me on Saturday night in response to a direct question that it was about bids. I am sure that is not the only criteria - after all, Buxton could hold the ELRC if that was the case - but what I am concerned about is whether the record of a track in holding previous big events is taken into account. As far as I am concerned, the shambles at the PLRC in 2004 should have ruled out Sheffield and I was frankly amazed that they got it the following year. That doesn't apply to them for 2010, but it does for Rye House and the NLRC after the dreadful track surface on Saturday night.

 

It seems to me that past records must be part of the criteria for the allocation of venues but experience suggests that it is not - that just has to be wrong.

 

SCB has hinted at Sheffield's home bias but far more convincing were a set of statistics produced by Shoddy last year (I am sure he could show them again if necessary). On the basis of home & away form over a number of seasons, that indicated that Sheffield was one of the worst home banker tracks in the PL - I stand to be corrected, but if memory serves me well only Exeter was worse. That might be difficult for you and a lot of Tigers fans to stomach, but that's not my prejudice, its his figures.

 

So, we have the PL's most prestigious meeting on one of its most biased circuits. Its representative was, according to last weeks Speedway Star, 20th in the league standings and qualified for the meeting with one of its lowest averages so he is a long way from being one of the best in the league and should, by rights, have been a rank outsider. Things is, though, this rank outsider was riding on his home track, a track that opinion suggests and statistics show has a pronounced home advantage. He wins, and its not too difficult to jump (and it would be a big jump)to the conclusion why.

 

Ask yourself three questions:

 

Would Ashworth have won it anywhere else ?

 

Would Howe, Proctor & Ward got in the final elsewhere ?

 

Does the fact that a rank outsider on his home circuit (a circuit with a pronounced home bias)won the meeting enhance or damage speedways credibility to someone looking in ?

 

I'd say No, Yes & damage.

 

As you can see, from my perspective Sheffield (and Rye House) isn't the problem, its the example and my point is not about slagging Sheffield off, but putting things right for the future and ensuring that as much as possible is done to ensure that our sport is presented in the best possible way so that we might attract more fans, sponsorship and media coverage.

 

For a start, lets be assured that past records are part of the selection process.

 

The ideal is to run meetings on neutral circuits but that is a financial disaster. So the next best thing is to choose the PL circuit that is seen to be the most like a neutral circuit, along with other relevant criteria such as central location, good crowd capacity, decent parking and maybe dining and corporate facilities. Sheffield has all those; so does Birmingham, and Birmingham has the advantage of being seen as less biased (they all have it, just some more than others).

 

Spot on, Birmingham would probably be most peoples choice as the fairest track but unfortunatly their future is in dout so that has to be counted out for the time being.

 

After Birmingham, their really isn't a PL track out there to hold an event like this with out the home rider having a massive advantage.

 

 

 

[squall]

But if it was at Birmingham and Jason Lyons won....

[vog]

Spot on, Birmingham would probably be most peoples choice as the fairest track but unfortunatly their future is in dout so that has to be counted out for the time being.

 

After Birmingham, their really isn't a PL track out there to hold an event like this with out the home rider having a massive advantage.

 

Stoke hardly has a massive amount of home track advantage, you only need to look at how well opposing teams number 1's do around there! Unfortunately, we have some horrendous facilities!

[Bagpuss]

So that was his own track at some point

 

Next

 

Of course you make a good point, but there is a difference between holding it at a track where one of the competitors once rode his speedway but hasn't been back for a few years, and holding it somwhere where one of the competitors has ridden every week since mid March.

 

I certainly don't want to take anything away from Ashworth as he deserved his win on the day, but I think holding these events on neutral territory is a must for the future. I know people flock to Sheffield to watch the PLRC, but if the right EL track is selected they will do the same there too.

[BoroBearBabe]

I know people flock to Sheffield to watch the PLRC, but if the right EL track is selected they will do the same there too.

Please rephrase that to "but if the right EL track is selected they might do the same there too". Since the demise of Odsal there's been a lack of prestigious meetings which are easy for us Northerners to get to. Please don't take away the few that remain.

[bendover]

Please rephrase that to "but if the right EL track is selected they might do the same there too". Since the demise of Odsal there's been a lack of prestigious meetings which are easy for us Northerners to get to. Please don't take away the few that remain.

For me, If, It has to be at an elite league track, then looking at the geographical picture of the premier league, there are only three options: Belle Vue, Coventry or Wolves all within fair travelling distances for the majority (we are a democracy supposedly). On the basis of facilities it's down to one Coventry. And guess what... you'll still get claims of "home rider" bias due to the doubling up rule.. It's a no win situation for both the riders and the BSPA. Can't offer a solution to this problem just trying to highlight the problems that the BSPA have with these meetings.

[Bagpuss]

Please rephrase that to "but if the right EL track is selected they might do the same there too". Since the demise of Odsal there's been a lack of prestigious meetings which are easy for us Northerners to get to. Please don't take away the few that remain.

 

Fair point.

 

Coventry, Wolves and Peterborough would be the three EL tracks most central I suppose but then Proctor, Frampton and Ward would in theory have an unfair advantage. Not an easy problem to solve.

[Halifaxtiger]

Fair point.

 

Coventry, Wolves and Peterborough would be the three EL tracks most central I suppose but then Proctor, Frampton and Ward would in theory have an unfair advantage. Not an easy problem to solve.

 

Truth is, you can't solve it.

 

Neutral tracks are the ideal but the home fans just don't turn up so they are unprofitable and I don't blame the BSPA for rejecting that idea.

 

All you can do is to make sure that the maximum possible is done to ensure that the big meetings are seen to be as impartial as possible. Taken with all the other requirements - size of stadium, corporate & dining facilities and reasonable car parking - it narrows the field down even more.

 

Interesting to read the comments of Keith McGhie in the Redcar programme last night. He obviously feels that Sundays result didn't do much for the credibility of British Speedway and suggested that the meeting be shared out amongst the tracks.

 

I must admit I did smile when I saw his first choice..............................Birmingham

Edited October 2, 2009 by Halifaxtiger

[June]

For championship meetings like the PLRC ......Why cant we have a practice day like they do in the Grand Prix?.....Would that make it any fairier?

[Trees]

Or ala GPs, have a mini series perhaps?

[wotnoaj]

I see that there was a mix up with the race jackets and Johno had to pick up spares and bring them to the meeting with him!

Only in Speedway would a competitor have to do something like that! Somehow though it adds to the uniqueness and appeal of the sport to me.

 

 

I thought Ward and Proctor could have been a bit more gracious in defeat.

[wjm]

Or ala GPs, have a mini series perhaps?

 

 

I would love to see it happen I think it would be well supported and could be rotated between North,Midlands and The South.

 

Edinburgh one year Glasgow the next

 

Sheffield and then Stoke

 

Rye House and then Somerset and so on.

Edited October 2, 2009 by wjm